Do Truckee, CA Superchargers Get Much Use?

[Rocky_H]

Another factor to preclude massive sales of EVs in just six years, how will the power industry adjust to cope?

By being thankful that people are actually using that excess capacity they have overnight that they were trying to figure out what to do with.

 

[gnuarm]

By being thankful that people are actually using that excess capacity they have overnight that they were trying to figure out what to do with.

The trick will be to get people to charge overnight. With the majority this won't be a problem. But with the ones currently using Superchargers this may be a significant issue. Even for those with home charging, there is a tendency to just plug it in when returning home without thought. The power companies will need to provide an incentive to charge after hours or let the utility control the charging. This sort of program will require a lot of thought, planning and negotiation between all parties and won't happen in a short time. The discussion needs to be started with legislators and regulatory bodies now.

 

[Rocky_H]

The trick will be to get people to charge overnight.

It doesn't require a trick--just a standard TOU plan.

With the majority this won't be a problem. But with the ones currently using Superchargers this may be a significant issue.

This was about large populations charging at home--not Superchargers. Tesla can figure out their own stuff with that, partially by battery banks at Superchargers to buffer the load, which they already do at some sites.

Even for those with home charging, there is a tendency to just plug it in when returning home without thought.

Plugging in doesn't always mean immediate charging; many EV owners use scheduled charging that is delayed until later.

The power companies will need to provide an incentive to charge after hours

They already do.

This sort of program will require a lot of thought, planning and negotiation between all parties and won't happen in a short time. The discussion needs to be started with legislators and regulatory bodies now.

Ha ha ha ha! No, it's already in place from the electric companies in most states. Overnight cheap rates are used by most of these utilities to be that motivation to get people to shift their usage toward overnight. It's called a "Time of Use" plan (TOU). And they can continually adjust that incentive by how much price difference there is between the day and night rates to move however much usage they feel they need to. Georgia has some ridiculous overnight rates like 2 cents, and some parts of Texas have it about zero, because they have a lot of excess wind generation. You talk about this like it's some outlandish new idea that will need to be invented from scratch, but it's a policy that is already in widespread use.

 

[PLUS EV]

The trick will be to get people to charge overnight. With the majority this won't be a problem. But with the ones currently using Superchargers this may be a significant issue. Even for those with home charging, there is a tendency to just plug it in when returning home without thought. The power companies will need to provide an incentive to charge after hours or let the utility control the charging. This sort of program will require a lot of thought, planning and negotiation between all parties and won't happen in a short time. The discussion needs to be started with legislators and regulatory bodies now.

As Rocky pointed out, this entire post of yours was rather uninformed!

Be sure to tell "your friend" all about TOU plans!

 

[gnuarm]

It doesn't require a trick--just a standard TOU plan.

Are you on TOU? What are your rates like and what are the times?

I'm on a TOU plan for exactly this reason. When I tried to sign up you would have thought I was asking when there would be lasting peace in the middle east. I had to contact a specific individual and weeks later my first contact with him was to find out that he had switched me... even before I had the car, lol. My point is I don't think most people even know it exists. So yes, it will require some effort to make people aware and get them to actually use it, AKA a "trick".

This was about large populations charging at home--not Superchargers. Tesla can figure out their own stuff with that, partially by battery banks at Superchargers to buffer the load, which they already do at some sites.

Not sure what "This" is supposed to mean. Charging from Superchargers can still present significant load on the system. Not sure why Tesla would be expected to mitigate grid problems more than anyone else. If you think throwing massive quantities of batteries at the problem is a solution Tesla should pay for, then fine, but it will need to be worked on by more than just Tesla. After all, it then means the power draw at other times increases.

Plugging in doesn't always mean immediate charging; many EV owners use scheduled charging that is delayed until later.

Not sure how to interpret "many". Some do, some don't. It won't take a huge penetration of EVs into the market to create a lot of additional demand right at the evening peak. That may not even be the problem.

They already do.

Users only have incentive if they both know of and use the TOU plans. Also, since the peak time is short, the increase in rates is very significant. My peak rate is 5 times more than my standard rate. So you get whacked for all other use at that time. My bill actually increased until I paid closer attention to timing my electric usage. How many people will be interested in that? They need a separate TOU plan just for EVs. This is why I say we need to get legislators and utilities working on this ahead of the crunch. If we don't stay ahead of them they will develop the plans to suit themselves.

Ha ha ha ha! No, it's already in place from the electric companies in most states. Overnight cheap rates are used by most of these utilities to be that motivation to get people to shift their usage toward overnight. It's called a "Time of Use" plan (TOU). And they can continually adjust that incentive by how much price difference there is between the day and night rates to move however much usage they feel they need to. Georgia has some ridiculous overnight rates like 2 cents, and some parts of Texas have it about zero, because they have a lot of excess wind generation. You talk about this like it's some outlandish new idea that will need to be invented from scratch, but it's a policy that is already in widespread use.

You haven't really given it much thought. TOU normally both reduces the rate at off peak, but greatly increases it during peak. Many people won't want to pay quintuple to cook, heat water and keep their homes comfortable just so they can save a few pennies on charging their cars. I don't know what they do in Texas, but most of the country has not done much for EVs other than tax them.

Finally, I will mention that while TOU is oriented to mitigating the peak charges for generating electrical power, it fails to deal with the problems home charging will put on the local distribution system. From what I've read here and elsewhere there is a significant lack of capacity if even a fraction of homes are charging cars overnight. While the peak generation limitations are during the late afternoon, the maximum draw from the grid is on the cold nights when temps are too cold for a heat pump in my house. I've seen my overnight usage reach 12 kW while my typical usage is only 3 kW even while running the heat pump. If my car adds another 16 kW at this same time and that is repeated at even a fraction of homes in the area, the distribution system won't handle it. I think I read that the distribution system assumes an average power load around 5 kW from the houses in a community.

So stop acting like you know all the answers and give it some real thought. Just chanting TOU, TOU won't prevent the problems we can expect moving forward.

 

[PLUS EV]

Are you on TOU? What are your rates like and what are the times?

I'm on a TOU plan for exactly this reason. When I tried to sign up you would have thought I was asking when there would be lasting peace in the middle east. I had to contact a specific individual and weeks later my first contact with him was to find out that he had switched me... even before I had the car, lol. My point is I don't think most people even know it exists. So yes, it will require some effort to make people aware and get them to actually use it, AKA a "trick".



Not sure what "This" is supposed to mean. Charging from Superchargers can still present significant load on the system. Not sure why Tesla would be expected to mitigate grid problems more than anyone else. If you think throwing massive quantities of batteries at the problem is a solution Tesla should pay for, then fine, but it will need to be worked on by more than just Tesla. After all, it then means the power draw at other times increases.




Not sure how to interpret "many". Some do, some don't. It won't take a huge penetration of EVs into the market to create a lot of additional demand right at the evening peak. That may not even be the problem.




Users only have incentive if they both know of and use the TOU plans. Also, since the peak time is short, the increase in rates is very significant. My peak rate is 5 times more than my standard rate. So you get whacked for all other use at that time. My bill actually increased until I paid closer attention to timing my electric usage. How many people will be interested in that? They need a separate TOU plan just for EVs. This is why I say we need to get legislators and utilities working on this ahead of the crunch. If we don't stay ahead of them they will develop the plans to suit themselves.




You haven't really given it much thought. TOU normally both reduces the rate at off peak, but greatly increases it during peak. Many people won't want to pay quintuple to cook, heat water and keep their homes comfortable just so they can save a few pennies on charging their cars. I don't know what they do in Texas, but most of the country has not done much for EVs other than tax them.

Finally, I will mention that while TOU is oriented to mitigating the peak charges for generating electrical power, it fails to deal with the problems home charging will put on the local distribution system. From what I've read here and elsewhere there is a significant lack of capacity if even a fraction of homes are charging cars overnight. While the peak generation limitations are during the late afternoon, the maximum draw from the grid is on the cold nights when temps are too cold for a heat pump in my house. I've seen my overnight usage reach 12 kW while my typical usage is only 3 kW even while running the heat pump. If my car adds another 16 kW at this same time and that is repeated at even a fraction of homes in the area, the distribution system won't handle it. I think I read that the distribution system assumes an average power load around 5 kW from the houses in a community.

So stop acting like you know all the answers and give it some real thought. Just chanting TOU, TOU won't prevent the problems we can expect moving forward.

You sure do know an awful lot about TOU plans for someone who posted this 5 hours ago:

"The power companies will need to provide an incentive to charge after hours or let the utility control the charging."

 

[RayK]

Reviving an old thread (sorry, no pictures of the SC)...

So I decided at the last minute to take a one-day trip up to Squaw Valley and ski on the 4th of July (second time in two years). I was planning to charge in the morning at the Truckee Donner Pass SC next to Safeway before going to Squaw but I was running a little bit later than planned so I drove to the resort and parked with about 90 miles of range left. I think only three slots were being used at 7AM. Before leaving I saw that there were only 3 stations out of the 11 that were open. When I got there at 1:30PM they were all taken. There were mostly 3s, a few S and only one X. Parked and waited about 20 minutes before a spot opened up. Plugged in and got only about 30kWh. Another spot opened up and I took a chance and moved over. Got just over 100kWh so I added 100 miles (good enough to get to Fairfield, maybe Concord) and then left to let the next person waiting in line charge.

While I was waiting I took a look at the other Truckee SC (on Brockway) and saw that there were 3 stations open out of the 8. I figured if I drove over there it would be the same thing as trying to choose the fastest line at the checkout stand or concert security lane (i.e., with my luck the "open" stations were down or other people would beat me to it AND the Safeway site would open up multiple slots).

 

[ThisIsTrue]

We had used our handyman for several years, but he never noticed what as parked in the garage, until he came over to talk to me in the garage (the door was open):

"You have ...a Tesla? You have a TESLA?! You have a Tesla!"

And he went home and never came back to finish the job.

His day job: public school science teacher. But he couldn't handle us having a car HE couldn't afford, and chose to lose work over it. What an eye-roller....

 

[Merrill]

This stuff happens all the time with just about everyone you deal with, when we moved to Sonoma I needed to have some dirt delivered. I got a quote and when the guy found out where we lived he said the delivery was Twice as much, because of how far we lived from them. So I asked how much it would be to a location farther away and it was half as much, once we purchased a Tesla I make sure the garage door is closed. Sorry to stray from the topic.

 

[PLUS EV]

We had used our handyman for several years, but he never noticed what as parked in the garage, until he came over to talk to me in the garage (the door was open):

"You have ...a Tesla? You have a TESLA?! You have a Tesla!"

And he went home and never came back to finish the job.

His day job: public school science teacher. But he couldn't handle us having a car HE couldn't afford, and chose to lose work over it. What an eye-roller....

What does this have to do with the thread about Truckee superchargers?

 

[ThisIsTrue]

Sorry... I was trying to post that in Tesla Moments.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Seriously folks, this concern troll has been bloviating for quite a while now. I've had it on ignore for months. I suggest others do the same.

 

[Pinot.Noir]

We used the Truckee Supercharger on August 27 at about 12:30. We were the only ones there the entire time. The western most stall in the shade would only run up to 30 kw, so I moved to another stall, and it was up around 80 kw. Not great, but it got us to Lovelock for our next charge.