Does anyone else have zero interest in EAP?

[MaryAnning3]

I have to say EAP is becoming less and less interesting to me right now. I love the idea of it when the kinks are worked out, but I don't think I am ready to put my life in the hands of something in 'beta testing" or watch my car drive into a wall instead of parking.

I am really sorry to hear that. My own experience with EAP has been really positive, although at first I did have some problems understanding my role relative to the EAP system vis a vis: lane changes, how best to apply steering wheel pressure and other little things that are important. At this point, I love it.

My 2 cents:
* On a properly functioning model 3, EAP is already better at driving and (much?) safer than the average driver.
* It is amazing how relaxing it is to drive freeways with EAP.
* Tesla has created the most advanced and amazing driver assist technology ever, and I think it is pretty reasonable to ask owners to contribute $5000 to that endeavor in the context of purchasing a $50,000+ car which already has the cameras.

I would guess, and I would love to hear what other people believe, that EAP as it exists right now, is safer than 90% of human drivers. Is that overly optimistic? too conservative? That is, perhaps, a difficult thing to quantify, but I am interested to hear what other people think...

 

[Electroman]

AP is the next thing to sliced bread. Next best innovation for reducing driving fatigue and stress after automatic transmission.

I simply CANNOT and WILL NOT drive any car unless it has the same or better level of AP like I have it on my Tesla. Period.

To me it is like I paid $35k for my car and $20k for AP.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

AP is the next thing to sliced bread. Next best innovation for reducing driving fatigue and stress after automatic transmission.

I simply CANNOT and WILL NOT drive any car unless it has the same or better level of AP like I have it on my Tesla. Period.

To me it is like I paid $35k for my car and $20k for AP.

Wait until FSD is released. Then they can charge anything they want for the feature. TAKE MY MONEY!!! (Oh wait, they already did!)

Dan

 

[JGard]

Well, my trial period is about over and it hasn't done anything to make me think it's worth the exorbitant costs. I've used it a handful of times and as suspected, the TACC is great, I would pay like $1000-1500 for just that. But Autosteer is horrible. It drives like a drunk person. Summon was cool the one time I used it, but also not really worth it since it's something I'd like on average...4-5 times per year maybe?

I'm glad I got this trial, because wow I would have been pissed if I spent all that money pre-purchase and found it to perform so poorly that I never want to use it.

That all said, if I actually had a daily commute, I may feel otherwise, but I don't. I drive my kids to/from pre-school 4x a week and then drive myself to hockey 1-2x per week. No real traffic to deal with either drive.

 

[pugtech]

The way EAP/FSD is packages is really messy.

It only really works for people like me who are really into autonomous driving technology, and who want to be part of the journey.

But, it's not ideally suited for someone who simply wants to get from point A to point B in a manner they're comfortable with, EAP right now doesn't beat TACC itself in doing that for a lot of us including myself. Now I don't really care as I'm in it for the long game, and I don't mind the incremental improvements to AP.

There is a lot of challenges to AP (with V9) such as:
Automatically changing lanes without glitching and giving up
Very weather dependent side monitoring
No debris detection
No ability to sense the ruts in the road where the water collects (I think there is a better name for them)
The loss of situational awareness that some of us have (including me) when not having to steer
The inability of AP to do lane positioning that makes sense (the middle isn't always ideal)

Obviously AP has a long ways to go, and this isn't even including summons/self-parking/etc.

So you'd think Tesla would allow TACC to be bought separately.

But, allowing TACC to be bought separately causes lots of problems. The first problem is purely revenue in that for a lot of people it would be enough itself. Not having TACC for a long road trips is really sucky.

The second problem is that TACC is actually a huge safety component. You can see this in how it changes the behavior of a person driving. Anything from the following distance to aggressiveness. People driving on TACC are likely more chill. The number one accident on a freeway is traffic slowing down and idiots not paying attention. TACC is paying attention and slows down.

This a problem for Tesla because they want to demonstrate that AP is safer than manual driving. They don't want to be in a position of having to go up against a human+TACC.

That's a very sensible driver.

Now I don't know how much longer this can go on for.

Other car companies offer Adaptive cruise control as standard.
EAP is evolving and might not need TACC to be included to justify it's purchase.
The $7K price is going to be hard for someone with a HW2+ car to swing. So why not offer TACC only for $2K for these people?

I agree with your list of AP priorities. I love the idea of AP, but don't like scaring the driver next to me when my car enters a high speed turn in the middle of the lane, waits until the apex to turn sharply back, often traveling over the line. It would be great if it could anticipate the turn, move slightly to the outside before entering, and generally turn a bit sooner. I find it most helpful on relatively strait freeways and use it to increase safety while I fiddle with the screen or some other distracting activity.

 

[Myrddin]

I live on the North Olympic Penisula, in Washington State, and love being able to feel safe while taking in more of my world’s often stunning scenery. Before I had my EAP equipped Model 3, there was just the traffic and I found myself driving too competitively too often. Now, the play of the early morning and the sunset’s light on the Olympics is more available, and it brings me peace. I’m more relaxed while in the car, and can carry that feeling into other areas of my life. EAP is worth everything I paid for it.

 

[Electroman]

... and it brings me peace. I’m more relaxed while in the car, and can carry that feeling into other areas of my life. EAP is worth everything I paid for it."

 

[Piney999]

All I want is TACC. Thats it. I would pay handsomely for it. My commute is no good for FSD.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

All I want is TACC. Thats it. I would pay handsomely for it. My commute is no good for FSD.

Well, what you want is completely up to you of course. However, true full self driving would be good for ANY drive. That's why it is proving a tough egg to crack. If it is completely in charge it has to know how to handle every situation reasonably presented to it. Trip, commute, 10 minutes, 10 hours. It won't matter.

Dan

 

[coleAK]

My 30 trial ended and I was able to use it successfully once on the highway, that is when it could see the lines. Went out the Seward highway over the weekend since we have had enough rain at sea level to clear the snow off the ~50 mile stretch around the “arm”. Again given our roads in Alaska, where lines are optional, I couldn’t get it to work reliably. Also even with the follow distance on max of 7 it is way too close, the front of the car and windshield would be destroyed by gravel. Another 2-3 car lengths would be nice, which would put the follow distance similar to our Lexus on follow distance 3. Summon is just a novelty and will be until FSD is a reality.

The nice thing though is since I have the hardware, if the software advances to the point where I could use it I can purchase it at that time.

 

[TeeEmCee]

I live on the North Olympic Penisula, in Washington State, and love being able to feel safe while taking in more of my world’s often stunning scenery. Before I had my EAP equipped Model 3, there was just the traffic and I found myself driving too competitively too often. Now, the play of the early morning and the sunset’s light on the Olympics is more available, and it brings me peace. I’m more relaxed while in the car, and can carry that feeling into other areas of my life. EAP is worth everything I paid for it.

I give you that, EAP allows for a better music listening experience.

 

[Carotene]

It's beyond me why anyone would PAY to avoid driving this fantastic-handling car Kidding aside, I too am coming up on the end of the 30 day trial. I wouldn't say I have zero interest, but now that I have quite a bit of seat time, my impressions of its value have shifted.

Stop and go traffic - it's great and really does reduce stress. I trust it most in this scenario, but it is quite jerky which not only is annoying for me, but it causes ripple effects in traffic behind. Someone up-thread mentioned "smoothing" out the stop and go with good spacing and keeping constant, slow speed. EAP is the antithesis of smooth stop and go driving.

Highway speed, not congested - it's OK, but I have a hard time trusting EAP in these conditions. Long, sweeping curves on the highway are taken in polygon arcs one micro-steer at a time. Good drivers provide a much more smooth, analog input to take curves nice and smooth. It also bugs me that it doesn't avoid potholes (which in the DC area are plentiful) and other road hazards. It just feels like i've handed over control of my $50k car to a teenager.

Highway speed, congested - No trust. Too shy with lane changes, hesitates at times, and brakes way too late. Experienced drivers look ahead down the road and make adjustments well in advance. EAP seems to stare at the bumper of the car directly in front and is perpetually "surprised" with sudden stops. It's truly nerve-racking and I can't stand it. Experienced drivers are smooth and intentional with their actions. Hesitation is one of the most dangerous behaviors in busy traffic. It creates uncertainty for other drivers. In general, EAP lacks a sufficient degree of situational awareness and for that reason I simply can't trust it with my life or the lives of others.

All this said, I do realize that things will improve and I am cheering them on as they do. I'm thankful they've build a car that can remotely enable software features - it's beyond cool. For now I sit on the sidelines and wait. I do not feel any responsibility to fund their R&D effort. They've already made a car that is both green and fun to drive - I paid for that. If and when EAP/FSD is mature i'll probably pay for that too.

 

[16Coma]

It's beyond me why anyone would PAY to avoid driving this fantastic-handling car Kidding aside, I too am coming up on the end of the 30 day trial. I wouldn't say I have zero interest, but now that I have quite a bit of seat time, my impressions of its value have shifted.

Stop and go traffic - it's great and really does reduce stress. I trust it most in this scenario, but it is quite jerky which not only is annoying for me, but it causes ripple effects in traffic behind. Someone up-thread mentioned "smoothing" out the stop and go with good spacing and keeping constant, slow speed. EAP is the antithesis of smooth stop and go driving.

Highway speed, not congested - it's OK, but I have a hard time trusting EAP in these conditions. Long, sweeping curves on the highway are taken in polygon arcs one micro-steer at a time. Good drivers provide a much more smooth, analog input to take curves nice and smooth. It also bugs me that it doesn't avoid potholes (which in the DC area are plentiful) and other road hazards. It just feels like i've handed over control of my $50k car to a teenager.

Highway speed, congested - No trust. Too shy with lane changes, hesitates at times, and brakes way too late. Experienced drivers look ahead down the road and make adjustments well in advance. EAP seems to stare at the bumper of the car directly in front and is perpetually "surprised" with sudden stops. It's truly nerve-racking and I can't stand it. Experienced drivers are smooth and intentional with their actions. Hesitation is one of the most dangerous behaviors in busy traffic. It creates uncertainty for other drivers. In general, EAP lacks a sufficient degree of situational awareness and for that reason I simply can't trust it with my life or the lives of others.

I couldn't agree with you more. I've had my car a week now and it has EAP. Until the car learns how to avoid potholes, take the curve smoothly and resolve a few other quirks already mentioned, I say the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[MaryAnning3]

This is slightly tangential to the main point here, and it is totally fine to love Tesla and not want EAP. But I would add that:
in a world where many people are plotting the demise of Tesla, EAP technology and 1 billion hours are one of the primary keys to Tesla's survival.

 

[Mod3forMe]

This is slightly tangential to the main point here, and it is totally fine to love Tesla and not want EAP. But I would add that:
in a world where many people are plotting the demise of Tesla, EAP technology and 1 billion hours are one of the primary keys to Tesla's survival.

Just to follow that thread, I can't see any real chance of a 'demise of Tesla'. There is a good chance they will be taken over at some point. If they are it may even be for the good of the company and EAP.

Of course I know that some would see Telsa losing their independence as a 'demise'.

 

[SDKoala]

It's beyond me why anyone would PAY to avoid driving this fantastic-handling car Kidding aside, I too am coming up on the end of the 30 day trial. I wouldn't say I have zero interest, but now that I have quite a bit of seat time, my impressions of its value have shifted.

Stop and go traffic - it's great and really does reduce stress. I trust it most in this scenario, but it is quite jerky which not only is annoying for me, but it causes ripple effects in traffic behind. Someone up-thread mentioned "smoothing" out the stop and go with good spacing and keeping constant, slow speed. EAP is the antithesis of smooth stop and go driving.

Highway speed, not congested - it's OK, but I have a hard time trusting EAP in these conditions. Long, sweeping curves on the highway are taken in polygon arcs one micro-steer at a time. Good drivers provide a much more smooth, analog input to take curves nice and smooth. It also bugs me that it doesn't avoid potholes (which in the DC area are plentiful) and other road hazards. It just feels like i've handed over control of my $50k car to a teenager.

Highway speed, congested - No trust. Too shy with lane changes, hesitates at times, and brakes way too late. Experienced drivers look ahead down the road and make adjustments well in advance. EAP seems to stare at the bumper of the car directly in front and is perpetually "surprised" with sudden stops. It's truly nerve-racking and I can't stand it. Experienced drivers are smooth and intentional with their actions. Hesitation is one of the most dangerous behaviors in busy traffic. It creates uncertainty for other drivers. In general, EAP lacks a sufficient degree of situational awareness and for that reason I simply can't trust it with my life or the lives of others.

All this said, I do realize that things will improve and I am cheering them on as they do. I'm thankful they've build a car that can remotely enable software features - it's beyond cool. For now I sit on the sidelines and wait. I do not feel any responsibility to fund their R&D effort. They've already made a car that is both green and fun to drive - I paid for that. If and when EAP/FSD is mature i'll probably pay for that too.

I agree with everything you wrote as someone who added EAP literally the night before taking delivery. It's interesting to tinker with, but I regret getting it because EAP cannot handle my daily commute. (100% surface streets, stop signs, traffic lights, 2-lane curvy roads with blind corners, speed limit changes depending on the presence of children, merges into traffic, multiple lane changes.) I'm not on the freeway enough to make it worth it and had the trial been available at the time I got my car 8 months ago, I would have gone that route first and decided not to buy it.

On the freeway, I find it drives like a beginning driver who hasn't learned how to predict what traffic is going to do and can only react to what is happening. The analogy that it's like handing over control to a teenager is very accurate. At this time, a better human driver is always going better exponentially, however EAP is probably going to be better than an inattentive or bad driver, which is a lot of the people out there.

It does make my life easier in stop-and-go freeway traffic, but just like you mentioned it does nothing to help the smooth the flow of traffic. In our selfish world where people are constantly changing lanes in traffic to get ahead and causing a ripple effect behind them, poor spacing and abrupt acceleration/deceleration contributes to that too. Even in Chill mode it doesn't do that well.

So yes, Tesla should continue to develop these technologies so that one day it will just as good as the best human driver. I personally think we are decades away from that.

 

[Electroman]

On the freeway, I find it drives like a beginning driver who hasn't learned how to predict what traffic is going to do and can only react to what is happening. The analogy that it's like handing over control to a teenager is very accurate

Sorry, completely disagree. In highways it drives fantastic, as long as there are clear lines.

 

[SDKoala]

Sorry, completely disagree. In highways it drives fantastic, as long as there are clear lines.

Glad it works for you. I would have rather my money and wish the trial existed at that time.

 

[andy92782]

I'm at the end of my 30-day evaluation and it's now decision time. My thoughts echo those of others who compare EAP's driving style to that of a nervous, inexperienced teenager. For example, the system gets way too intimidated by the aggressive nature of freeway drivers here in greater LA/OC making it nearly impossible to execute a lane change without re-taking control. It also slows down abruptly and unexpectedly for situations that us humans would completely ignore. When that happens, I worry about what other drivers might think of my driving style; could EAP invoke a middle finger or two? Would a cop think I'm drunk and flip on the lights?

"EAP Lite" - ie Traffic Aware Cruise Control - has been largely excellent. When traffic was moving freely, I preferred this to full-blown Autosteer.

EAP in stop and go traffic was also excellent.

Navigate on Autopilot, on the other hand... Not particularly useful. I admit it was astonishing - and somewhat fun - watching the car activate the turn signs and execute merges on/off freeway ramps on its own, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't ready to take over in a nanosecond. With traffic around me, it was nerve wracking.

I also ran into one situation where if I didn't take over manually, EAP would have plowed into a dead coyote. They're not kidding when they say you always need to pay attention. But if this is the case, how much value does EAP bring?

I'm still torn as to whether or not I want to pull the trigger. After having just watched a few of the Model 3 Tear Down videos easily found on the interwebs, I find myself being quite impressed by the amount of engineering that went into making this car and its driver assistance systems. It gives me some confidence that if I do decide to buy EAP, my money won't be going to waste and the probability of improved performance via future software updates is reasonably good.

I guess I'll sleep on it...

 

[FelixtheCat]

I did the trial, and it worked very well - with a couple of exceptions - on a divided highway with traffic. When a motorcycle passed me by splitting the lane between me and the car to my left, the cruise control was canceled. In a Tesla or any EV with regen, that's like hitting the brakes. So I had to accelerate quickly to avoid getting rear-ended. It also didn't work well for me when I tried to change lanes when traffic was really heavy and just crawling (e.g., on I-80 in Emeryville for those familiar with Bay Area traffic). Since most of my driving is on city streets or poorly marked 2-lane country roads, I decided against buying EAP. I would have liked adaptive cruise, but that alone wasn't worth the price of the full EAP.