Don't take your hands off the wheel

[Tribaltech]

Last Thursday, I was headed home from San Francisco on 24 Eastbound. Went thought the Caldecott tunnels. Was in the right most lane of the right tunnel. A couple of hundred feet before the end of the tunnel, AutoPilot suddenly swerved right and hit the curb. I had my hand on the wheel and reacted quickly. Quick enough that the only damage was a curbed rim and a messed up section of my aero hubcap.

This was on 2019.12.1.1. I forgot to hit the steering wheel button and say "Bug Report WTFU HAPPENED" The next morning I received 2019.12.1.2 and AutoPilot handled the same tunnel perfectly on Saturday.

I love my car, but I try to keep at least one hand on the wheel 99% of the time.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again (and I’m sure Tesla fanboys will come at me with sticks and stones) but as a Tesla owner I find autopilot to be pretty much garbage on a good day.

It is way more headache and nuisance than a convenience feature of any sort. It was the worse money I spent while buying my Model S. It’s a garbage feature and Tesla realizes it too and has therefore started giving it out for free as an includes standard feature.

The number of times my AP has done crazy crap like what the OP posted, I’ve lost count of those instances. Thankfully in my case it didn’t result in an accident. It’s probably because I never felt safe using AP for more than perhaps 10 minutes at a time. I prefer going with the traffic aware cruise control but in a Tesla even that sometimes doesn’t work properly. Tesla randomly jams the brakes even in cruise control mode.

Yeah I’m pretty jaded with Teslas over promising and under delivering on many accounts and AP certainly being one of those. And as I type the Tesla stock has hit a 52 week low point. Sigh!!

 

[JeffnReno]

This is why many of us AP users report after a trip that the car did 90% of the driving. It's that 10% that hypervigilance made us decide to take over or not engage it to begin with. Compared to when I got my car last June, it's vastly improved. This is a growing tech and it learns over time which explains why it keeps getting better. For those that don't own a Tesla that use this tech, your criticism is showing the ignorance of such opinions.

 

[mikebaird]

It's a fact of life with autopilot that eventually you're going to have to take over instantaneously. And that's why you get the warning right off the bat to keep your hand(s) on the wheel when you engage autopilot. I'm always astonished at the people who complain about the steering wheel nag - properly used, there's no nag.

I'm glad you were able to recover from your bad situation with only minor damage!

I was surprised to learn how much pressure one can put on the steering wheel without taking it out of autopilot. At first I was afraid if I put too much pressure on the steering wheel I'd cancel autopilot. So now I drive as if I'm always trying to slightly steer the car in one direction or another, and autopilot stays on AND I'm ready to take over in case of a mishap.

 

[bshap73]

Obviously, some folks happily live with that. But for me that it is more stress letting the AP drive knowing that it could drive the car in a wall without any warning.
It needs to reach the reliability of a plane AP which you don't need to keep your hands on.

I'm with you on this. I drive a good 60 miles through Silicon Valley on 680, 880,17. In the carpool lane there are cement dividers and there were a few parts that I got a little nervous. Only first drive for me this morning, so I'll keep giving it a try, but I'm not sure I feel less stressed or more stressed using autopilot.

I also had to take over at one point when a large truck was driving on the lane line and the autopilot was just continuing to drive straight along the lane.

I really wish the autopilot would add in lane drift so that the car could hug one side or the other when conditions change. Dead center is great if all cars drove dead center of the lane, but every other car tends to drift and/or hug one side or the other.

 

[dmurphy]

The place where Autopilot makes me super, super, super happy is in stop-and-go traffic. At high speed it's one thing, but in traffic, it reduces the workload significantly. I just love it. Can't ever completely disengage yourself - and that's not a bad thing - but it really makes traffic bearable. I find myself less stressed and willing to just sit in it instead of doing the constant-lane-change-trying-to-fill-every-opening thing.

 

[aagosh]

My 2019 ModelX (2019.12.1.2) also sometimes breaks abruptly while passing under a small bridge in broad daylight. I think it is due to a sudden change in road lighting due to the shadow - it thinks its an obstruction.

Glad that you were able to intervene and followed safety protocol. I seriously feel pity for drivers such as those
Tesla driver caught on camera seemingly asleep on Autopilot

 

[banned-66611]

I'm amazed that Tesla has not simply added some code that says "if you suddenly think you need to swerve hard, don't".

Suddenly swerving indicates something went really badly wrong. The situation is already screwed up, and swerving is the last thing you want. Brakes perhaps and a loud alarm sound to get the driver's attention, but not swerving.

It's been doing this since day 1 as well. One of the first Autopilot videos on YouTube is of a Model S with AP1 trying to murder the driver by swerving in front of an on-coming truck.

 

[Silicon Desert]

It needs to reach the reliability of a plane AP which you don't need to keep your hands on.

I'm wondering if you are a pilot. For me, I am still attentive when flying and do keep hands on.

In my car, once I have a situation like the OP where it does something hazardous, I don't try that same situation again just because I got a software update. That's tempting another disaster, but it seems that people like to do that just to see if it works with an update. I'm just glad to hear OPs situation was not a bigger problem.

 

[RedSky]

If Tesla can make its self driving cars even a tiny fraction as capable as a baby, I think we will be in great hands. The rate of a baby’s neural learning program is unparalleled in the world of computing today and it’s unbelievably efficient in terms of energy consumption, coming in at less than 20 watts

Yes, but think of all the Joules lost in the diaper.

 

[RedSky]

Yes, but think of all the Joules lost in the diaper.

I was driving on I-75 on AP yesterday, when a very light rain began. With just a few dozen drop in the windshield, AP dropped out with a message about "bad weather detected". Does AP have knowledge of local weather other than by sensing rain -- in this case, just a few drops?

 

[aerodyne]

I realized that with AP engaged, I have been instinctively keeping one or both hands firmly on the wheel when there is an obstruction, such as K wall, car, curb on either side of me, and also when changing lanes on AP. About every 2k miles it will steer me wrong, but not much more than a well placed pothole or uneven road seam would...

However, that leaves maybe 75% of the time I can relax with just two fingers on the wheel, feeling the autopilot thinking its way forward. Huge improvement over any other car I have tried...perhaps 30% reduction in driver fatigue.

I am very happy with AP1. I would not like more automation, except perhaps NoA and advanced summon. As a user of real autopilots as in aircraft, I find it is important to maintain situational awareness. I think FSD would be a danger in that respect.

 

[GolanB]

I was driving on I-75 on AP yesterday, when a very light rain began. With just a few dozen drop in the windshield, AP dropped out with a message about "bad weather detected". Does AP have knowledge of local weather other than by sensing rain -- in this case, just a few drops?

Some other (earlier) threads are discussing this -- I don't believe its new functionality, and it would not make sense that it would be triggered by an over the air alert vs. your locally attached sensors. How many times have we found those alerts have been off both in time and description.

Is this what you've seen?

Poor weather detected - Navigate on Autopilot limited
Well this is new... “Poor Weather Detected: Navigate on Autopilot Limited” : teslamotors

 

[Mr Vader]

I've taken to having a 90 gram weight on the right wheel side, at
the junction of the spoke, and keeping my hand on the weight, that's
3 o'clock, or just below at 4 o'clock with fingers on the weight. I use
the Sport steering mode. At 90 grams it's enough that I don't get
nags with my hand there, but would if I removed it completely. It's
just at the hairy edge, so I don't have to tug or rock the wheel, which
was causing it to drop out of AP sometimes. But I would NEVER
drive without a hand on the wheel. Although it keeps getting better,
and 2019.12.1.2 is great overall, to where it's been perfect so far,
there are always possible causes for problems in the right lane,
like poorly maintained lines, and I've had a couple cases with 8.5
where the car thinks the shoulder is a perfectly good place to be ;-)

After any update it makes sense to update the App, reboot the
screen fully with foot on brake, and do a 3 min Power Off reboot.
Then it seems to take a couple miles on autopilot for it to "learn".

Also it's worth making sure all the cameras are free of dust etc.
We have a lot of pollen and dust now that builds up very quickly.
The AP will drive fine even with some dust, but does better w/out.
It only takes a quick pass around the car with a microfiber cloth
in hand. Like checking an aircraft before taking off.

With these steps, FWIW, I've been really pleased with 2019.12.1.2,
very human-like lane changes with acceleration, Mad Max moving
into the faster lane, merging, exiting, everything right on. My wife
is no longer clawing into the seat.

Or you can use either comand wheels on the steering wheel to either adjust the volume or the speed, and that satisfies the autopilot request. No need to apply "the exact pressure"

 

[aekemmerer]

I've been driving through the Fort Pitt tunnel to work for 3 months, I had base AP the last 2 months, and it has never swerved in the tunnel so far. With versions 12.1.2 and 8.5 .

You'd think that with the ultrasonic sensors bouncing off the wall, a tunnel would be one of the better places for autopilot.

My condolences to you for that commute!

 

[Bob M]

Last Thursday, I was headed home from San Francisco on 24 Eastbound. Went thought the Caldecott tunnels. Was in the right most lane of the right tunnel. A couple of hundred feet before the end of the tunnel, AutoPilot suddenly swerved right and hit the curb. I had my hand on the wheel and reacted quickly. Quick enough that the only damage was a curbed rim and a messed up section of my aero hubcap.

This was on 2019.12.1.1. I forgot to hit the steering wheel button and say "Bug Report WTFU HAPPENED" The next morning I received 2019.12.1.2 and AutoPilot handled the same tunnel perfectly on Saturday.

I love my car, but I try to keep at least one hand on the wheel 99% of the time.

 

[Bob M]

My problems with auto steer and even cruise control are that my driving style has me place the car in traffic at somewhat different places in relation to other cars for safety. Whenever the density of traffic allows I try to not drive in anyone’s blind spot or right next to another vehicle if I can move up or drop back just a bit to avoid it. I wish the Tesla system could pick up on these more defensive driving styles. Also, in this example I am responding to, the tunnel side clearance was so small that it didn’t give the driver enough reaction time to avoid the collision with the curb. I feel this happening sometimes in intersections when on auto steer. My car will start out going across the intersection too close to the car next to me , get confused about the lanes, then jerk my car almost into the car next to me. Several times I feel I would have collided with the car next to me if I hadn’t jerked it back. This has happened to me enough times that I use it much less than I did at first.

 

[duanra]

I'm wondering if you are a pilot. For me, I am still attentive when flying and do keep hands on.

In my car, once I have a situation like the OP where it does something hazardous, I don't try that same situation again just because I got a software update. That's tempting another disaster, but it seems that people like to do that just to see if it works with an update. I'm just glad to hear OPs situation was not a bigger problem.

yes i am a pilot (nobody is perfect )
On a 4 hours leg, you don't want to have your hands on the controls all the time. However, you need to maintain a scan of the instruments...you're right.

 

[pdq]

It's a fact of life with autopilot that eventually you're going to have to take over instantaneously. And that's why you get the warning right off the bat to keep your hand(s) on the wheel when you engage autopilot. I'm always astonished at the people who complain about the steering wheel nag - properly used, there's no nag.

I'm glad you were able to recover from your bad situation with only minor damage!

I bought a new 2015 P90D and quickly learned that even with the software upgrades, it would often either serve abruptly, or cross over into an adjacent lane while going around a sweeping curve on Autopilot, so I always kept one or both hands on the wheel, given I used autopilot daily. The first time it swerved abruptly into an adjacent lane it scared the hell out of me as I didn't have a firm grip on the wheel. Luckily there wasn't another car there, or it would have been an accident.

I got rid of that car and for the last year+ I've been driving a 2014 Mercedes E550, with their "Drivers Assistance" package equivalent to Tesla Autopilot, which I use daily, same as I did with my Tesla. Despite being 1 year older and no "over the air" software updates, it tracks the center of the lane very well, without any abrupt swerves or crossing into an adjacent lane. Also, it allows me to change direction (ex: avoiding a pothole) without disengaging autopilot, whereas the same thing in my P90 would have.

Tesla needs to contact the Israeli company that develops and sells this technology to car companies all around the world and get them to solve that problem.

 

[Silicon Desert]

yes i am a pilot (nobody is perfect )
On a 4 hours leg, you don't want to have your hands on the controls all the time. However, you need to maintain a scan of the instruments...you're right.

great, and come to think of it. I'd rather be in the air with AP than on the ground in a car AP

 

[Hookemhorns]

I'm always amazed that people have the cojones to use autosteer in lanes without a shoulder
Glad the damage was minimal!

Oh yes. I NEVER use AP when I'm driving next to concrete carriers, or almost never in construction zones in general. When we travel AP does 90%+ of the steering for me, while on the highway with clear lanes and shoulders. Just not worth it in situation where I don't have time to correct any small (or large) swerve. Use it wisely and it's a dream; push the limits and you'll cross them from time to time.