Don't trust automatic gear selection on refreshed Model S.

[M109Rider]

Majority of my professional life I have been a semiconductor design verification engineer. In the chip design business, bugs are very bad, expensive and time consuming to fix. So, a typical design team has almost 1.5x to 2x the number of verification engineers vs design engineers.
This is to make sure the technology that gets made into chips has close to zero bugs, if possible. Zero is never possible, but we try very hard.

In the software world, though, testing and validation is an afterthought most of the times. Except in mission critical software. Remember the 90’s joke about Microsoft and making cars? What if Microsoft made cars?” They would crash at least once every day”?

Well. We seem to be excusing some basic missteps in execution by Tesla and chalking it up to ‘oh, it’s just new tech, it needs time to learn’. I am seriously stupefied.

I am in agreement with a few others who say this is a solution looking for a problem. Screwed up execution should not be excused in this flippant manner.

You already agreed that bugs are impossible to prevent, even with 2x the verification engineers.
The computer, phone, and car industry would be priced much differently today, and less further along, if they had to remove all bugs before sending their products out.
Your expectation is not realistic. They aren’t excused flippantly. That’s an exaggerated and dramatic description of what you think is happening.
While we all dislike bugs, and glitches, they are currently part of progression.

Anyone that is so intolerant to software bugs, should stick with an older ice car, for about another 5 years, until the bugs for standard features are further along.

 

[Bigjohn892]

.....but it kinda sounds like......



.....it almost makes you crash.

So you have to go super slow and triple check everything before hitting the gas. I dunno, I'd just rather not have to deal with that, and put it in gear myself. If you like it, fine.

It happened again last night. Here's a pic.

 

[gnxs]

Man, so many excuses made for Tesla in here. I come from an Industrial Process Safety background, and these responses make me laugh.

"For now, it only almost makes me crash 10% of the time. But hopefully eventually it'll get better!" Yikes, guys. Especially when it's picked reverse knowing there's a car directly behind you already.

Maybe safety is old fashioned, but I wasn't "burdened" by pushing a stuck up or down to tell my car what way to go. This feature is unnecessary. It adds complication and uncertainty. It's a solution looking for a problem.

For me, the last sentence in this post is the most relevant.

I have a plaid coming in the next few months and have talked to a few people that own refreshed Model S's and I am not terribly excited about having to deal with the quirks of the new setup. My impression is that the cons here far outweigh the pros. I guess I'll find out firsthand later this year.

EDIT: In continuing to read through these threads, it looks like the auto select feature can be disabled. At least that's a positive.

 

[URBAN LEGEND]

Yes. It can be turned off.

 

[_Redshift_]

You already agreed that bugs are impossible to prevent, even with 2x the verification engineers.
The computer, phone, and car industry would be priced much differently today, and less further along, if they had to remove all bugs before sending their products out.
Your expectation is not realistic. They aren’t excused flippantly. That’s an exaggerated and dramatic description of what you think is happening.
While we all dislike bugs, and glitches, they are currently part of progression.

Anyone that is so intolerant to software bugs, should stick with an older ice car, for about another 5 years, until the bugs for standard features are further along.

This is not a bug. It’s an unnecessary ‘feature’. I don’t know what problem it is trying to solve. Do you?

 

[M109Rider]

This is not a bug. It’s an unnecessary ‘feature’. I don’t know what problem it is trying to solve. Do you?

Lol. Many feel electric cars are an unnecessary feature as well.
Along with why do we have screens instead of buttons. ..

Thank goodness we have Elons’s of the world moving tech forward for the better. Some don’t see it, no problem though, they’ve got you covered.

 

[_Redshift_]

Lol. Many feel electric cars are an unnecessary feature as well.
Along with why do we have screens instead of buttons. ..

Thank goodness we have Elons’s of the world moving tech forward for the better. Some don’t see it, no problem though, they’ve got you covered.

Elon is not god, and he is fallible. You don’t have to patronize me with Elon is a gods gift to humanity. I was there and a believer probably way before you realized there was Tesla.

also, electric cars are not an unnecessary feature. Don’t conflate cars and their parts. It looks absurd.

 

[SDRick]

Not sure what all the fuss is about.

If automatic gear selection worked perfectly, there would be no discussion (other than how great it is). Nothing is perfect. If it works 60% of the time or 95% of the time or whatever, and it's good enough for you, then great. It will only improve over time. If it is not working to your satisfaction, turn it off until it does..

 

[M109Rider]

Elon is not god, and he is fallible. You don’t have to patronize me with Elon is a gods gift to humanity. I was there and a believer probably way before you realized there was Tesla.

also, electric cars are not an unnecessary feature. Don’t conflate cars and their parts. It looks absurd.

I didn’t say he was a God, or infallible, you did.
I am glad you’re a believer. We still need support from folks like you and I, because so many people and industries are trying to take him down.
If they succeed, we all go back to crappy ice cars, expensive repair shops, and burning gasoline at $1.50 a litre.
I think you understood my point about the electric car analogy. .

I’m likely overly tolerant to the bugs and glitches, that I feel are necessary for change, and progression.
Most don’t want to even try.

 

[Tam]

It happened again last night. Here's a pic.

I guess it's easy for me, a layperson who's not an AI expert to wonder why would the system still wants to collide with an obstacle it clearly measures as 31 inches away.

Is that a bug? It's just simple math: If the sonar measures an obstacle 31 inches in front, then don't plan to collide with it. Avoid it!

 

[WiLz]

This is not a bug. It’s an unnecessary ‘feature’. I don’t know what problem it is trying to solve. Do you?

The "problem" it is solving is improving convenience and efficiency. As I mentioned in my last post above, when it works correctly 95% of the time, you are saving the time and effort spent to put the car into gear. The 5% of the time it predicts wrong, you just have to manually put it into gear like you would've had to do anyway if you didn't have the feature.

Sure, some will say that is just being lazy and an unnecessary convenience. However, the same can be said for Autopilot - why do you need Autopilot when everyone can just drive the car themselves? Again, it is not a "necessary" feature, but it is an innovation and improvement over status quo. Similarly, Autopilot is a great convenience when it is working 95% of the time, but there will still be those 5% scenarios where the car will not be able to handle the situation and you as the driver need to take over.

And no, I do not think it is a perfect feature, and you do still have to pay attention so the system doesn't make a mistake, but that is exactly the same as the current state of Autopilot.

Think of the progression we have had from having to put a key in ignition and turn it to turn on the car --> push start buttons --> car automatically turns on when you get in. This is just the next step in that progress to eliminate the step of a gear shift.

 

[lbowroom]

It happened again last night. Here's a pic.

Did you close your eyes and go barreling forward into a head on crash? Of course you didn't, so what? Out of curiosity, was there anything behind you at the time?

 

[Matias]

I don’t get it, auto shift doesn’t replace your responsibility to check for pedestrians and cars/obstructions before you start to drive. What is the problem again?

Maybe you don’t need to check if someone is behind you if you are planning to go forward?

 

[WhiteWi]

Maybe you don’t need to check if someone is behind you if you are planning to go forward?

where did I say behind?

 

[Matias]

where did I say behind?

OP’s obstacle was behind him. He wanted to go forward. At least I understood his post that way.

 

[_Redshift_]

I didn’t say he was a God, or infallible, you did.
I am glad you’re a believer. We still need support from folks like you and I, because so many people and industries are trying to take him down.
If they succeed, we all go back to crappy ice cars, expensive repair shops, and burning gasoline at $1.50 a litre.
I think you understood my point about the electric car analogy. .

I’m likely overly tolerant to the bugs and glitches, that I feel are necessary for change, and progression.
Most don’t want to even try.

I’ve been a believer in electric since 2007, when I became aware of project Whitestar. I’ve almost met the big man at his office too, can’t say under what circumstances. (Believe it or not, I turned down an offer to meet him. Yeah, like I said, believe it, or not. My 11 year old son will never let me live down that one.)

Which makes it all the more harder for me to watch the progression of these stumbles Tesla is making nowadays. To me my Model 3 is the best driving sports sedan right now, and my 8.5 year old S, still in superb condition inside out, best in comfort.

I wish Tesla would offer the yoke as an upgrade option to those who like it. I wish there was a standard stalk to change gears manually. I wish they’d find ways to get around the chip shortages so we could have the promised 560 miler S, for which I’d be one of the first few in line.

As it stands, though, Lucid seems very intriguing. I’m not sold until a test drive, but I’d never even look at another electric brand as recently as last year.

 

[_Redshift_]

The "problem" it is solving is improving convenience and efficiency. As I mentioned in my last post above, when it works correctly 95% of the time, you are saving the time and effort spent to put the car into gear. The 5% of the time it predicts wrong, you just have to manually put it into gear like you would've had to do anyway if you didn't have the feature.

Sure, some will say that is just being lazy and an unnecessary convenience. However, the same can be said for Autopilot - why do you need Autopilot when everyone can just drive the car themselves? Again, it is not a "necessary" feature, but it is an innovation and improvement over status quo. Similarly, Autopilot is a great convenience when it is working 95% of the time, but there will still be those 5% scenarios where the car will not be able to handle the situation and you as the driver need to take over.

And no, I do not think it is a perfect feature, and you do still have to pay attention so the system doesn't make a mistake, but that is exactly the same as the current state of Autopilot.

Think of the progression we have had from having to put a key in ignition and turn it to turn on the car --> push start buttons --> car automatically turns on when you get in. This is just the next step in that progress to eliminate the step of a gear shift.had the wrong reply

The "problem" it is solving is improving convenience and efficiency. As I mentioned in my last post above, when it works correctly 95% of the time, you are saving the time and effort spent to put the car into gear. The 5% of the time it predicts wrong, you just have to manually put it into gear like you would've had to do anyway if you didn't have the feature.

Sure, some will say that is just being lazy and an unnecessary convenience. However, the same can be said for Autopilot - why do you need Autopilot when everyone can just drive the car themselves? Again, it is not a "necessary" feature, but it is an innovation and improvement over status quo. Similarly, Autopilot is a great convenience when it is working 95% of the time, but there will still be those 5% scenarios where the car will not be able to handle the situation and you as the driver need to take over.

And no, I do not think it is a perfect feature, and you do still have to pay attention so the system doesn't make a mistake, but that is exactly the same as the current state of Autopilot.

Think of the progression we have had from having to put a key in ignition and turn it to turn on the car --> push start buttons --> car automatically turns on when you get in. This is just the next step in that progress to eliminate the step of a gear shift.

 

[scrapps]

Is there any audible confirmation of changing between gears with autoshift? Ideally it should announce what it's changed to.

 

[_Redshift_]

The "problem" it is solving is improving convenience and efficiency. As I mentioned in my last post above, when it works correctly 95% of the time, you are saving the time and effort spent to put the car into gear. The 5% of the time it predicts wrong, you just have to manually put it into gear like you would've had to do anyway if you didn't have the feature.

Sure, some will say that is just being lazy and an unnecessary convenience. However, the same can be said for Autopilot - why do you need Autopilot when everyone can just drive the car themselves? Again, it is not a "necessary" feature, but it is an innovation and improvement over status quo. Similarly, Autopilot is a great convenience when it is working 95% of the time, but there will still be those 5% scenarios where the car will not be able to handle the situation and you as the driver need to take over.

And no, I do not think it is a perfect feature, and you do still have to pay attention so the system doesn't make a mistake, but that is exactly the same as the current state of Autopilot.

Think of the progression we have had from having to put a key in ignition and turn it to turn on the car --> push start buttons --> car automatically turns on when you get in. This is just the next step in that progress to eliminate the step of a gear shift.

Changing gears is a small percentage of the time and effort in driving the car. So the convenience is very limited.

The inconvenience of having to make sure the car is thinking right, is much more. Plus, there are always those drivers who are in a hurry and may not notice the direction, leading to fender benders or worse.

Just not a good idea, this whole thing.

 

[lbowroom]

Then don’t turn it on. Default is off