ropogigio724
Member
I’m still waiting for my M3P to get here but my insurance agent said it will cost me $80 a year less to insure than my 2019 Audi S4.
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Downsides of Performance vs Long Range?
- Thread starter Horizonjob
- Start date
It’s a total cost to insurance companies that sets the rate. Cost to repair, bodily injury, etc. even if a performance car had more accidents if less people are injured in total then the safer car might be cheaper. Performance cars might be driven less on average. So many variables.
Just bought M3P. I love it. LR didn't survive. Track Mode 
Mahamilto
Member
P if you can swing it.
The range difference is almost entirely due to the wheels and tires being VERY different off the lot; if you really need more range, ditch the summer tires for all seasons and get a new wave aero wheel (like the EV-01+). Reality is if you want grip you are likely to ditch the stock LR tires anyways; they are a touring tire with very low rolling resistance. Ditching those for summers or even ultra high performance all seasons and you lose the range advantage, but still don’t quite get the handling of the stiffer M3P.
The LR also has a weaker rear motor (990); the M3P had the 980 which is inherently more capable. The LR allows acceleration boost, but then it’s pretty much maxed out. The M3P with the 980 could (and may one day) get another power bump.
Basically, I’m saying you can more or less then the M3P into an LR with more umph, but it’s impossible to turn the LR into an M3P (at least not the LRs made since 2020 when they dropped the 980 motor from it).
The range difference is almost entirely due to the wheels and tires being VERY different off the lot; if you really need more range, ditch the summer tires for all seasons and get a new wave aero wheel (like the EV-01+). Reality is if you want grip you are likely to ditch the stock LR tires anyways; they are a touring tire with very low rolling resistance. Ditching those for summers or even ultra high performance all seasons and you lose the range advantage, but still don’t quite get the handling of the stiffer M3P.
The LR also has a weaker rear motor (990); the M3P had the 980 which is inherently more capable. The LR allows acceleration boost, but then it’s pretty much maxed out. The M3P with the 980 could (and may one day) get another power bump.
Basically, I’m saying you can more or less then the M3P into an LR with more umph, but it’s impossible to turn the LR into an M3P (at least not the LRs made since 2020 when they dropped the 980 motor from it).
Have they published any of the 980 vs 990 specs? Also, does most of the M3P acceleration improvement come from the front or rear motor or is it a combination?
Mahamilto
Member
I don’t know the actual difference in terms of peak power output; not even sure if it is published anywhere. Just it’s been settled it’s the stronger unit and more capable of delivering (or maybe handling without breaking is the better word?) higher power output than the 990.
The acceleration difference, for the most part, is software. But looking at third party vendors, you can flash the LR with the 980 (the ones that had it...) and make it a performance, but you can’t do that to the LRs with the 990 due to the 990 being the limiting factor. Flashing would, in theory, revoke your warranty either way; if something in the powertrain breaks, rest assured you would have the burden of proof they upping the output didn’t cause the failure.
The only warranty covered upgrade for the LR is the 2k acceleration boost; scream Magnusson act all you like... mess with power through third party and expect your warranty to be voided if something goes down and they find out. Then it’s on you to fight it.
My understanding is the acceleration boost maxes out the safe capability of the 990. The 980, allegedly, has some room beyond the Performance software currently running. I don’t know if this is definitively true, but it would stand to reason. Either way, the 980 is the stronger motor. By how much? I can’t answer that. I’d have to dig and still may not find the answer.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
That the 990 is a cheaper, less capable, unit is proven by teardowns done to it... since it's missing some of the hardware the 980 has inside.
But it's also provable by basic logic.
If the 990 was cheaper and just as capable it'd be in use in the P and they'd have gotten rid of the 980 by now. But they still use the 980 in the P (and pretty much only in the P anymore last I knew)
If the 990 was NOT cheaper AND less capable it wouldn't even have a reason to even exist.
The only option left is cheaper AND less capable for the 990.
That said- the P has been around for almost 3 years now- and there's never been any suggestion there's going to be any further power unlock offered for it.
So one has to work on the basis that what is there today in both cars is all you're getting.
So $8500 more for 0.9 quicker (measured same way) 0-60 over the AWD, or $6500 more for 0.5 quicker 0-60 over the AWD+, plus track mode with the P for those who would get use from it.
(and the wheel/brake difference which some prefer one way and some the other)
But it's also provable by basic logic.
If the 990 was cheaper and just as capable it'd be in use in the P and they'd have gotten rid of the 980 by now. But they still use the 980 in the P (and pretty much only in the P anymore last I knew)
If the 990 was NOT cheaper AND less capable it wouldn't even have a reason to even exist.
The only option left is cheaper AND less capable for the 990.
That said- the P has been around for almost 3 years now- and there's never been any suggestion there's going to be any further power unlock offered for it.
So one has to work on the basis that what is there today in both cars is all you're getting.
So $8500 more for 0.9 quicker (measured same way) 0-60 over the AWD, or $6500 more for 0.5 quicker 0-60 over the AWD+, plus track mode with the P for those who would get use from it.
(and the wheel/brake difference which some prefer one way and some the other)
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Thanks for the info. This is one area as enthusiasts I wish Tesla was more transparent about. I enjoy learning about the details. For example, it is fun to compare the differences of ICE based engines, LT2 vs DOHC Coyote, 6 speed vs 8 speed vs 10 speed transmissions, camshaft profiles, tuning, forced induction, etc. I hope at some point we can learn the details of different EV motors, inverters, how the battery impacts peak performance, details on how the traction and stability control software works with open differentials, etc. I know enthusiasts represent a smaller group of folks nowadays but I hope we get still get to discuss more than just our 0-60 times. This is why I wish our cars have different drive modes, magnetic ride suspension and settings, ability to remap the accelerator sensitivity.
Spacep0d
Active Member
Mahamilto
Member
If you look at the hp ratings each of the 3 sub models, the front motor of the LR and P have the same HP ratings. The rear on the P and the SR have the same HP ratings (probably because the single motor model needs more HP than the 990 offers) and the LR has it's own rear motor.
Possibly in the beginning the number of units were such that economies of scale for the units and assembly complexity (there were more RWD models at the time) justified using the same rear motor for all model 3 but with the removal of options (from 6+ to 3 sub models) and the current volume it makes more economical sense to have a cheaper rear motor in the LR AWD.
Possibly in the beginning the number of units were such that economies of scale for the units and assembly complexity (there were more RWD models at the time) justified using the same rear motor for all model 3 but with the removal of options (from 6+ to 3 sub models) and the current volume it makes more economical sense to have a cheaper rear motor in the LR AWD.
Reminder that the early days were LR-RWD only "first production" model with 980 motor. I think they intentionally chose to first offer the "best motor they could make" and stick with the simplicity of RWD while they got some data on reliability and delayed getting their AWD system all sorted out.
Once AWD option was offered they had piles of the 980 motors from the concurrent RWD production so I gather just kept stuffing those in the non-P AWDs for a while. Once they got comfortable that the 990 motor could work well in the AWDs they phased it in for cost savings.
Spacep0d
Active Member
Mine wasn't on the menu either, but 2020 Stealth specimens did exist if you could find them. I don't think they're doing Stealth at all for 2021 are they? Either way, I kinda like that it makes the Stealths a little more exclusive.
Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
980 uses Silicon Carbide FETs as part of the power electronics (more durable, higher current capability) and has only been around in the past decade. 970 uses traditional MOSFET IGBTs which have been around since the late 80s. Very different technology and capability. Software flashing won't get you where you want to do since the technology in the rear motor is extremely different.
Exploring the Pros and Cons of Silicon Carbide (SiC) FETs: A New MOSFET from Cree - Technical Articles
The C3M0075120K is a low-on-resistance N-channel FET for high-power switching applications.
Surprise this hasn't been posted earlier.
FET vs. BJT vs. IGBT: What’s the Right Choice for Your Power Stage Design? - Technical Articles
This article will help the reader understand the different types of power semiconductors: how they work, their key parameters, and trade-offs.
*edit*
I went back on my old spreadsheet from 2 years ago and looks like I made a mistake. The 970 had IGBT, 980 was a ~800A FET, and the 990 was a ~600A FET as well.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I thought the 990 teardown showed it used the same FETs, just fewer of them? (which would obviously reduce both cost and capability)
I currently drive an S5 and close to making the move to a model 3. Did you make the switch and how did you find the transition to be? I also love my S5 but about to be out of warranty and I am now commuting around 90 miles a day during the week so fuel/oil change savings would be pretty substantial. Thanks in advance
The
performance has 20 in wheels and high performance P Zero tires which are great for performance driving but probably won’t last as long it also has track mode and drift mode plus data logging in track mode I am on my second one and never had a problem with the height the big brakes are cool and the bragging rights are great,stupid for me at 80 but I just couldn’t go without. I don’t think their is much difference in mge if they are driven the same Might lose a little range due to tires I went to order a 2024 but had my mind changed by the wait and mainly the fact that Tesla would switch my full self driving to the 23 at no charge,they have never done that before.
I bought the new 3 performance and my wife brought a new standard model 3 that was a big deal as she had been driving Prius for about the last 3 cars.
I noticed that hers rides a little better and is not anything like as slow as I thought it would be and it’s fast to her after the Prius.
Don’t think you’ll notice the difference between the long range and the performance unless you put them side by side then you get to say by by.
I love my Tesla and I have always had fast cars, CTSV CADDIES 911 and 928 Porsche Shelby Mustangs ZO6 Corvette this is quicker.
Just a sidebar so on you tube a Tesla S Plaid against a new tricked out Mclearon the Tesla Lon 3 for 3 then as a bonus won again with a 150 lb driver and 3 250lb passengers WOW
performance has 20 in wheels and high performance P Zero tires which are great for performance driving but probably won’t last as long it also has track mode and drift mode plus data logging in track mode I am on my second one and never had a problem with the height the big brakes are cool and the bragging rights are great,stupid for me at 80 but I just couldn’t go without. I don’t think their is much difference in mge if they are driven the same Might lose a little range due to tires I went to order a 2024 but had my mind changed by the wait and mainly the fact that Tesla would switch my full self driving to the 23 at no charge,they have never done that before.
I bought the new 3 performance and my wife brought a new standard model 3 that was a big deal as she had been driving Prius for about the last 3 cars.
I noticed that hers rides a little better and is not anything like as slow as I thought it would be and it’s fast to her after the Prius.
Don’t think you’ll notice the difference between the long range and the performance unless you put them side by side then you get to say by by.
I love my Tesla and I have always had fast cars, CTSV CADDIES 911 and 928 Porsche Shelby Mustangs ZO6 Corvette this is quicker.
Just a sidebar so on you tube a Tesla S Plaid against a new tricked out Mclearon the Tesla Lon 3 for 3 then as a bonus won again with a 150 lb driver and 3 250lb passengers WOW
Don’t think the 19s clear the brakes you might look for someone with a long range that would trade for the 20s and the brakes get them to pay the labor maybe
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