Drafty Cabin - Report issues here please!

[Liz G]

"Breezy Triangle" has already addressed in a service bulletin that your SC will fix under warranty. No need to re-hash something that Tesla has already addressed. Give your SC a call and they'll know what you're talking about.

I'm sorry to report but I've had the fix installed andI still haveair coming in around the triangle windows. It's not as bad as before but when it's really cold or there is a strong cross wind I can feel it. I have reported it and am waiting to see what the engineers come up with next to try. Though I have been too that air leaks are not uncommon with frameless windows. Anyways, I'm sure they are looking at other options and will give them more time to come up with a better solution. Until then I will crank the heat.

 

[mknox]

How about cold air @ the right foot area? anyone?
when the heater is on it feels cold by the right foot area (drivers side.)

Yes, and I believe this is the same problem of air infiltrating into the door cavity and then leaking into the cabin from gaps in the interior door panel trim. The same thing that causes air to leak in around the triangle window. I have found (as mentioned previously) turning off Recirculate and bumping the fan speed up a bit cures this problem. I think the added positive air pressure in the cabin keeps the outside air from infiltrating.

 

[Chris TX]

FYI, my December delivered MS has this issue. I haven't been in the SC for the "fix" yet, though. Still dealing with some curb rash issues and the refinishing shop (non-Tesla SC related).

 

[mcfadyena]

FYI, my December delivered MS has this issue. I haven't been in the SC for the "fix" yet, though. Still dealing with some curb rash issues and the refinishing shop (non-Tesla SC related).

Thanks - mine was December delivered as well.
They are on route to pick it up now and I'll make sure to let them know about the other posts here.

I tried the manual fresh-air setting again on the way in. It slowed the noticeable draft, but it made the entire door more drafty. Perhaps it's leaking in the door handles and the trim with the outside air setting on?

 

[mknox]

I tried the manual fresh-air setting again on the way in. It slowed the noticeable draft, but it made the entire door more drafty. Perhaps it's leaking in the door handles and the trim with the outside air setting on?

I am reasonably sure the outside air is getting in around the exterior door handles. For me, it's much worse if there is a cross wind. Using outside air should only bring outside air in through the HVAC system as opposed to it just recirculating inside air. With this setting, in theory, you should have higher cabin air pressure which, again in theory, should "push back" against those leaks in the doors.

 

[techMology]

I am reasonably sure the outside air is getting in around the exterior door handles. For me, it's much worse if there is a cross wind. Using outside air should only bring outside air in through the HVAC system as opposed to it just recirculating inside air. With this setting, in theory, you should have higher cabin air pressure which, again in theory, should "push back" against those leaks in the doors.

Should be easy enough to test the theory. Can you tape the door handles, hop in the passenger side, and then go for a spin? Or have someone tape them while you're sitting in the driver's seat?

 

[Jaff]

I think the best cure for this is to drive in a Roadster for an hour or two (in the winter)...then, the S feels downright balmy...:wink:

How about cold air @ the right foot area? anyone?
when the heater is on it feels cold by the right foot area (drivers side.)

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I think the best cure for this is to drive in a Roadster for an hour or two (in the winter)...then, the S feels downright balmy...:wink:

haha. I'd imagine so. I had a 914 that I'd drive around all the time with the top off but at least that had a warm gas engine and it'd keep your feet toasty.

The S seems to have odd climate behavior though, no matter the setting I can't get warm air to blow at the foot area unless the car is already warm? seems weird to me. when I am driving I really dislike having hot air blow on my face (unless I am really, really cold. and then 50 degree air feels hot)

- - - Updated - - -

Should be easy enough to test the theory. Can you tape the door handles, hop in the passenger side, and then go for a spin? Or have someone tape them while you're sitting in the driver's seat?

might be an interesting test?

 

[Doug_G]

The HVAC control, especially the Auto and Defog settings, work 500% better than last winter. That said there is still room for improvement:

• Recirc should never be used in extreme cold conditions, due to cabin fogging issues
• Should cycle some air to feet, at least periodically, when the defog mode is on
• Fan control could still use a little improvement; the minimum auto fan setting in cold conditions should be a little higher

 

[Chris TX]

Should be easy enough to test the theory. Can you tape the door handles, hop in the passenger side, and then go for a spin? Or have someone tape them while you're sitting in the driver's seat?

Does he slide in the window a la Dukes of Hazzard? You can't open one door with any of the other handles being not presented

 

[techMology]

Does he slide in the window a la Dukes of Hazzard? You can't open one door with any of the other handles being not presented

My vote is the Dukes method.

Don't have my car yet, which is why a) I have no clue, and b) suggested someone else taping while he's inside already!

 

[Duckjybe]

I am getting the following as well:

1. Draft around triangle windows and only a little wind noise. (mine has been in once for this for noise)
2. Cold right foot and too much air coming through defrost vents when climate set to feet.

Fogging has not been an issue at all for me.

Regarding 1. above. I did some extensive trial and error with foam tape and determined that, as has been mentioned, the air seems to be coming from the bottom of the triangle window up from inside the door. I was not able to eliminate the draft from the front and top of the triangle windows with the tape so far. I was able to reproduce eliminating the draft when the fan is turned up to max.

Another thing was when I turned the climate off the cabin cooled down quite quickly. If Tesla managed to seal and insulate the cabin better I would suspect our winter range could be improved quite a bit.

 

[mcfadyena]

I am reasonably sure the outside air is getting in around the exterior door handles. For me, it's much worse if there is a cross wind. Using outside air should only bring outside air in through the HVAC system as opposed to it just recirculating inside air. With this setting, in theory, you should have higher cabin air pressure which, again in theory, should "push back" against those leaks in the doors.

Agreed.

- - - Updated - - -

I am getting the following as well:

1. Draft around triangle windows and only a little wind noise. (mine has been in once for this for noise)
2. Cold right foot and too much air coming through defrost vents when climate set too feet.

Fogging has not been an issue at all for me.

Regarding 1. above. I did some extensive trial and error with foam tape and determined that, as has been mentioned, the air seems to be coming from the bottom of the triangle window up from inside the door. I was not able to eliminate the draft from the front and top of the triangle windows with the tape so far. I was able to reproduce eliminating the draft when the fan is turned up to max.

Another thing was when I turned the climate off the cabin cooled down quite quickly. If Tesla managed to seal and insulate the cabin better I would suspect our winter range could be improved quite a bit.

Yeah, my range is suffering. Toronto Service Centre is aware of this tread and are monitoring the updates. Keep sending theories. My car is in and can be the test model - they can keep it until things are solved, or until they run out of ideas.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow.
This service in the other Toronto location is far and away different from my last nightmare.

Just got a message from Tesla. Test drive showed the draft is present. They are running air testing to the vehicle tonight (yes, at 9:00 pm)
Updated firmware (I should have had the latest, but I guess not?)

All other concerns dealt with or will be dealt with tomorrow. They will solve the air issue. I told them to check in on this thread for the great ideas posted above.

 

[Duckjybe]

Another thing about the draft issues is you really don't notice them as much until you go on a long trip in very cold temperatures. So I hope Tesla understands this because it is difficult to realize the significance of the problem in a short test drive especially if/when the temperatures warm up.

 

[mcfadyena]

Another thing about the draft issues is you really don't notice them as much until you go on a long trip in very cold temperatures. So I hope Tesla understands this because it is difficult to realize the significance of the problem in a short test drive especially if/when the temperatures warm up.

You're right. I drive 300 km per day, all highway.

I had them come to Kingston to pick up my vehicle, then asked them to take the car out at around Cobourg area to drive it back to Toronto in the cold. He confirmed the draft, and I'm glad he took it out in the cold. It can get really cold, which I'm sure he noticed!

 

[Duckjybe]

This service in the other Toronto location is far and away different from my last nightmare.

To be fair, I think given your ongoing issues and displeasure the other location would be on it with just as much vigour. That has been my experience. Also, others on this forum have reported issues with the triangular windows since day one and many other service centres are having trouble fixing it. It's just getting attention now because of the colder temperatures and more cars on the road in colder climates.

Service not asking me to demonstrate the problem, and me not offering to demonstrate in car the exact problem has sometimes resulted in misdiagnosis and unresolved issues. Hence my old post about wanting all techs to talk to the customer directly, always. IMHO.

 

[mcfadyena]

To be fair, I think given your ongoing issues and displeasure the other location would be on it with just as much vigour. That has been my experience. IMHO.

Not so. My displeasure was BECAUSE of the other location. They said the draft wasn't there, told me the windows catching at the back windows weren't actually catching. When I showed him, the told told me "there is only so much I can drop the window." When I expressed that he needed to drop it enough for the windows not to almost break when the door opened, he said "I can drop the windows, but then you will have to live with wind noise in the cabin." I told him that wasn't acceptable, either. He said I would just have to open my door slowly, then.

With my trouble with cabin heat, they told me that it was because I had energy saving mode on. And proceeded to show me that I had energy saving mode on. When I told them that that mode was for allowing your car to sleep when in park and that it had nothing to do with heat, they didn't know what to say. They called an hour later to tell me that they repaired the heat by replacing the motor in the heater. When I called the next day for a full report on the car, I was told that the person made up the fact that the motor was replaced because she thought it was the right thing to say, with apologies.

When we left the service centre, my wife commented that it was no different from any other used-car garage, and she was right.

There's a lot more. But the point is, I'm certain I wouldn't have received the same service as I'm getting this time. Joe at the Toronto Lawrence centre has restored my faith in Tesla, and I'll ensure they are my team from here on in.

 

[Rockster]

"Breezy Triangle" has already addressed in a service bulletin that your SC will fix under warranty. No need to re-hash something that Tesla has already addressed. Give your SC a call and they'll know what you're talking about.

Thanks, Chris. I'm glad to learn that this is a known issue. On the way back from lunch yesterday, my backseat passenger reported significantly more wind noise from the passenger side triangle than the drivers side triangle. I've never been a back seat passenger in my own car so this was news to me. I've put this on my mental list to mention at the next SC visit.

 

[mknox]

I think I've pretty much confirmed the air is getting in to the door cavity via the exterior door handles: I took my car through a car wash yesterday. As a habit I generally turn the HVAC system completely off when I do, primarily to avoid stinking the car up with car wash soap smells. When I was exiting through the dryer blowers, and as I went by the driver's door, suddenly wind was escaping from every gap in the interior panel. Up by the triangle window and around the interior door handle specifically.

 

[mcfadyena]

I think I've pretty much confirmed the air is getting in to the door cavity via the exterior door handles: I took my car through a car wash yesterday. As a habit I generally turn the HVAC system completely off when I do, primarily to avoid stinking the car up with car wash soap smells. When I was exiting through the dryer blowers, and as I went by the driver's door, suddenly wind was escaping from every gap in the interior panel. Up by the triangle window and around the interior door handle specifically.

Nice work! My car comes back tomorrow - he says it's now "perfect". Will update what was done when they send me the service ticket. I did report that I was sure draft was coming through the door handle. Hopefully it was addressed as well.

But the car wash - Part of the issue with the car was that the car had soap in all 4 door frames (a huge soapy mess) and in the frunk area (but not in the frunk) when it went through a car wash. Soap is also in the handles when going through a car wash. I was told it was cold weather related (the soap froze after getting in), but I told them that it had happened the week before, as well. I go through the dryer, got out to check and, sure enough, it was there again. I've got photos if anyone would like me to upload them.

Do you guys also get this going through car washes?