Drive Unit Replacement Poll

[hpham007]

Tesla opts to do repairs centrally. So when a unit requires service - by analogy, anything from timing chain adjustment to head gasket to valve job - they have it sent to Fremont and replace with a refurbished unit. This promotes quality by giving R&D direct insight into service requirements so they can continuously improve.

In theory, this sounds fine except when you get multiple failures and refurbished DU that were defective from the start and had to be redone, this tells me that they either don't know what's causing the issue or they don't know how to solve it.

Some are here stewing, interpreting each drivetrain repair as major issue. They're not.

Leaky pano roofs, tail light condensation, misaligned trim, etc. Not a major issue. Any thing that prevents the car from working is a major issue. Also the guy that had his warranty refused was qouted 15k to replace his DU. Sounds pretty major to me.

 

[tomas]

Point is a few are major and take car out of operation, vast majority are not. Tesla handles all by replacing with refurbished unit. But they are not all same severity. Ever take in your ice and complain "running rough"? It's seldom a cracked cylinder head! But if Ford just swapped your engine each time, you'd never know. So only Tesla knows breakdown of drive issues and root causes. We are just guessing, and I think it's wrong to assume the worst.

 

[jerry33]

Point is a few are major and take car out of operation, vast majority are not. Tesla handles all by replacing with refurbished unit. But they are not all same severity. Ever take in your ice and complain "running rough"? It's seldom a cracked cylinder head! But if Ford just swapped your engine each time, you'd never know. So only Tesla knows breakdown of drive issues and root causes. We are just guessing, and I think it's wrong to assume the worst.

Plus we don't know the ratio of failures to successes (success = never replaced). The poll shows about 270 total replacements. If we exclude cars delivered this year, that's something like 70K cars. Assuming 90% aren't on TMC and TMC members experience the average amount of failures (questionable) that gives about 2700 total replacements (including cosmetic) or 4%.

What isn't known: A range of VINs with more than average replacements? Locality of replacements? Driving style? milage? P more than S? delivered end of quarter? cosmetic vs. actual failures? There are just too many unknowns to draw any firm conclusions. Of course, it would be nice if Tesla released some results of their analysis but that's not going to happen. (FWIW: 55K, no replacements)

 

[yak-55]

Plus we don't know the ratio of failures to successes (success = never replaced). The poll shows about 270 total replacements. If we exclude cars delivered this year, that's something like 70K cars. Assuming 90% aren't on TMC and TMC members experience the average amount of failures (questionable) that gives about 2700 total replacements (including cosmetic) or 4%.

What isn't known: A range of VINs with more than average replacements? Locality of replacements? Driving style? milage? P more than S? delivered end of quarter? cosmetic vs. actual failures? There are just too many unknowns to draw any firm conclusions. Of course, it would be nice if Tesla released some results of their analysis but that's not going to happen. (FWIW: 55K, no replacements)

What would be nice, for both owners and Tesla, would be if failures and replacements stopped occurring (or at least began to fall in frequency over time). This would be tangible evidence that Tesla DOES understand these issue(s) and has fixed them in new and refurbished units. Until then, owners are exposed to substantial risk, and Tesla to substantial expense. Sadly, I can't find any evidence (based on the limited data available outside Tesla) to suggest this is occurring. And it would certainly be in Tesla's interest to demonstrate convincingly that the problem(s) have been solved. That they haven't made any such clear demonstration suggests strongly to me they don't yet really understand the problem or have a true fix. Hope that changes soon or all the fuel savings calculations in the world are going to look ridiculous in the total cost of ownership that Tesla seems to be championing. Anybody think they'll include post warrantee drive unit replacement costs in the design center ?

 

[cwerdna]

Plus we don't know the ratio of failures to successes (success = never replaced). The poll shows about 270 total replacements. If we exclude cars delivered this year, that's something like 70K cars. Assuming 90% aren't on TMC and TMC members experience the average amount of failures (questionable) that gives about 2700 total replacements (including cosmetic) or 4%.

If it were 4%, that's quite lousy. See "average problem rates" chart under Car Reliability History | Detailed Ratings - Consumer Reports for '12, '13 and '14 problem rates for stuff like engine major/minor, transmission major/minor and drive system.

 

[ohmman]

Of course these could be any numbers at all. I don't think any of us can expect this poll to provide us any way to extrapolate to the ownership at large. It could represent every 'failure', assuming everyone searched the web for failures and landed here. It could represent a tiny fraction. No way to know so I think extrapolation is an exercise in futility.

 

[tomas]

If it were 4%, that's quite lousy. See "average problem rates" chart under Car Reliability History | Detailed Ratings - Consumer Reports for '12, '13 and '14 problem rates for stuff like engine major/minor, transmission major/minor and drive system.

As Jerry said, vast majority (including mine) appear to be "cosmetic". In other words, sound that owners may find annoying, but do not portend failure on the road. Many auto makers would tell their customers "that's normal, not covered". Like BMW's air conditioning units, that grow mold/mildew and make the car smell like an old gym shoe. They'll do one courtesy flush (which doesn't fix anyway), but after that the owner gets to suffer, pay, or both.

I really think Tesla is doing the right thing on this by replacing even the cosmetic ones, and their drivetrain reliability is really quite good. Think about it - first high power all electric drivetrain mass-produced (I'd contend roadsters not mass), and over a billion miles with only a few on the road failures... and even then, bend-over-backwards service to make it right.

Why are there so many Ralph Nader wannabes on this forum!?

 

[mknox]

So you had it previously, and then now again with the replacement drive unit?

Interesting...

No, it was different last time. The first issue was a low frequency hum which was constant at any speed or regen except zero. What I have now is a high frequency buzz that seems to only occur under power (not regen) and is most obvious at moderate speeds. It may be there at higher speeds, but road/tire noise drowns it out.

 

[scaesare]

No, it was different last time. The first issue was a low frequency hum which was constant at any speed or regen except zero. What I have now is a high frequency buzz that seems to only occur under power (not regen) and is most obvious at moderate speeds. It may be there at higher speeds, but road/tire noise drowns it out.

Ah OK. Exactly my scenario....

I have a service appt this Friday for something else, and I'm going to see what they say..

 

[tinm]

My car is in the service center currently, and one of the things they just did is replace the drive unit again. Now I'm on my third drive unit in 28k miles. They replaced it this time because of the loud milling/cicada sound.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I would like to correct those who are saying replacement DUs are "refurbished". They are not refurbished. They are REMANUFACTURED. You can confirm that by looking at your paperwork, it should say RMAN. If it doesn't, you received a factory-fresh unit as I did. Remanufactured is basically like new, it's completely disassembled and rebuilt. Something that is "refurbished" is not broken down and rebuilt.

 

[Lump]

My car is in the service center currently, and one of the things they just did is replace the drive unit again. Now I'm on my third drive unit in 28k miles. They replaced it this time because of the loud milling/cicada sound.

Gentlemen on FB was to have his drive unit replaced today but appointment was cancelled at the last moment & he was told HQ put a "quarantine" on all drive units without giving reason. Tinm can you ask about this?

 

[ohmman]

Gentlemen on FB was to have his drive unit replaced today but appointment was cancelled at the last moment & he was told HQ put a "quarantine" on all drive units without giving reason. Tinm can you ask about this?

I turned my car in today for a DU replacement. Nothing was mentioned about quarantines. They said that four DUs made it into the shop and that they assigned them "by VIN". The replacement is to occur tomorrow.

 

[tomas]

I'm booked next Monday. Have heard nothing re cancellation.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Gentlemen on FB was to have his drive unit replaced today but appointment was cancelled at the last moment & he was told HQ put a "quarantine" on all drive units without giving reason. Tinm can you ask about this?

Probably need them for Model X production LOL!

 

[Jason Conaway]

I'm that guy on Facebook who reported the quarantine on drive units. My service team claimed to not know the reason for the quarantine, or when it would be resolved. Consequently, I'm now waiting indefinitely for them to re-schedule the installation of my new drive unit. The one I have now is experiencing a thunk noise on deceleration, which the service techs said was a broken mount. They also said they heard a different (unspecified) noise that concerned them, so they ordered the new drive unit one week ago.

 

[tinm]

Re "refurbished" vs "remanufactured" DUs.

I specifically asked the service guy, "I assume the drive unit you put in today is a refurb?" He said, "Yes," and then went into the typical brief explanation of what that meant, which I already knew. And I suspect what he meant was "remanufactured" because that is basically what they do. Bottom line, the DU in my car is the third one, and it isn't new, it's rebuilt. I give it what, 20k miles before the electronic cicadas wake up and start chirrrrrrring again.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Re "refurbished" vs "remanufactured" DUs.

I specifically asked the service guy, "I assume the drive unit you put in today is a refurb?" He said, "Yes," and then went into the typical brief explanation of what that meant, which I already knew. And I suspect what he meant was "remanufactured" because that is basically what they do. Bottom line, the DU in my car is the third one, and it isn't new, it's rebuilt. I give it what, 20k miles before the electronic cicadas wake up and start chirrrrrrring again.

If this third time isn't the charm, I would insist on a new DU from the factory. I asked for a brand new one in February, and that's what I got. So far (knock wood) it's working great after 12,000 miles. The first two replacements were RMAN (remanufactured) and all ended up exhibiting the same issues that they were supposed to solve.

 

[jcaspar]

Put me down for the 0, never replaced. Only have 18k miles though, so far.

 

[apacheguy]

~7 K on my one and only replacement, REMAN -K unit. Love the -K rev.