Drove the p100d, m3p, and the model y awd

[Bzinsky]

So to make a long story short, those are the 3 teslas I’ve driven and launched. Model S and model 3 was in 2018. A week ago I drove the model Y awd.

So I’m thinking about ordering a model 3, and I’m not sure which one to order. There was something I really didn’t like about the model Y awd. When you stomp on the throttle from a stop, it seemed like both performance models that I drove get shot out of a cannon and then acceleration is gradually reduced as speed increases. Well on the model Y awd, it was the opposite. That first 10mph was underwhelming, and then it started to be fairly quick from 10-60mph. It felt like they intentionally hindered the power from a standstill.

I did not like this at all. I’m wondering if the model 3 awd is like this as well.

To be clear, it’s not the lack of total power that was my problem, it was the power delivery.

The model 3 performance felt like a big block chevy launch (all the power down low) The awd felt like a v6 launch, a little torquey down low but doesn’t really get going until you rev it out.

Is this how all the awd’s are tuned?

Thanks!

 

[Uncle Paul]

The performance models are tuned to give you that shot out of a cannon feeling. The RWD and AWD models (non performance) are tuned to give additional range and less overall thrust.

 

[Skione65]

So to make a long story short, those are the 3 teslas I’ve driven and launched. Model S and model 3 was in 2018. A week ago I drove the model Y awd.

So I’m thinking about ordering a model 3, and I’m not sure which one to order. There was something I really didn’t like about the model Y awd. When you stomp on the throttle from a stop, it seemed like both performance models that I drove get shot out of a cannon and then acceleration is gradually reduced as speed increases. Well on the model Y awd, it was the opposite. That first 10mph was underwhelming, and then it started to be fairly quick from 10-60mph. It felt like they intentionally hindered the power from a standstill.

I did not like this at all. I’m wondering if the model 3 awd is like this as well.

To be clear, it’s not the lack of total power that was my problem, it was the power delivery.

The model 3 performance felt like a big block chevy launch (all the power down low) The awd felt like a v6 launch, a little torquey down low but doesn’t really get going until you rev it out.

Is this how all the awd’s are tuned?

Thanks!

Did you try a Performance Y? If not give it a shot and let us know your impressions. Otherwise seems like an apples to oranges comparison so to speak. P vs. Non-P.

Ski

 

[Bzinsky]

The performance models are tuned to give you that shot out of a cannon feeling. The RWD and AWD models (non performance) are tuned to give additional range and less overall thrust.

Did you try a Performance Y? If not give it a shot and let us know your impressions. Otherwise seems like an apples to oranges comparison so to speak. P vs. Non-P.

Ski

I have not driven a y performance.

i understand that the performance models have more power. What I don’t understand is why the available power is delivered in a different manner. In the model 3p it feels like all of it’s available power is on tap from a stop. In the awd it feels like only part of its power is available from a stop. I’m not talking about the difference in peak power. I’m talking about the power curve.

To make it even more clear, if the m3p makes 500ft lbs of torque, it feels like that is available at 0mph.

If the awd makes 350ft lbs of torque, it feels like only 250 of it is available from a stop and the rest of it gradually comes available as you speed up. Felt like it had full torque available around 10-15 mph.

Kinda of an odd way for tesla to tune them.

 

[GtiMart]

Buy the power boost for your 3 or Y awd. I feel it gives a good kick and isn't as pricy as the P.

 

[MasterC17]

I agree regarding the Y AWD - lackluster off the line - though keep in mind most people aren't buying a non-Performance Y for the performance. If you want a Y with Performance than I would buy a Performance Y.

3 AWD, IMO, is much better off the line than the Y. With the Power Boost it feels very similar to a Performance.

 

[Bzinsky]

I agree regarding the Y AWD - lackluster off the line - though keep in mind most people aren't buying a non-Performance Y for the performance. If you want a Y with Performance than I would buy a Performance Y.

3 AWD, IMO, is much better off the line than the Y. With the Power Boost it feels very similar to a Performance.

Your first paragraph makes me frustrated. What I’m asking has absolutely nothing to do with what people want and their desires of acceleration. As if everybody who actually cares about how fast their car is should just get the performance model, as if it’s a free box you tick. I for one, am asking because when I expect X power for Y price, I don’t want less than X just from 0-10mph because tesla decided to artificially neuter the power band.

Your second paragraph answered my question. So thanks! I’ll hunt for some dyno’s. I was hoping that this was a known issue with the awd’s.

 

[Needsdecaf]

It's not a Performance vs. AWD thing.

I owned a M3 LRAWD and now a M3P. Both gave you that "shot out of the cannon" feeling, just the M3P is more. What you describe is almost like a turbo lag. There's none of that in the AWD cars. Maybe has to do with the Y's weight? Or just different tuning? Not sure.

 

[MasterC17]

Your first paragraph makes me frustrated. What I’m asking has absolutely nothing to do with what people want and their desires of acceleration. As if everybody who actually cares about how fast their car is should just get the performance model, as if it’s a free box you tick. I for one, am asking because when I expect X power for Y price, I don’t want less than X just from 0-10mph because tesla decided to artificially neuter the power band.

Your second paragraph answered my question. So thanks! I’ll hunt for some dyno’s. I was hoping that this was a known issue with the awd’s.

Sorry my paragraph made you frustrated, I was just trying to answer your question. As long as Tesla is providing the 0-60 time and peak horsepower that they advertise, how they get there is entirely up to them. And while you may want that instant off the line acceleration, they may have found that most consumers driving an SUV don't want that. That's why I suggested a Performance, which sounds more like what you are looking for.

Every manufacturer tunes their engines and power bands based on what they think is best for the customer. It's why high-revving naturally aspirated engines went away and got replaced with lower revving turbocharged engines with better economy. You may not agree with it, but it's what they are offering. A 2008 BMW 335i and a 2008 BMW M3 are great examples of this comparison. The 335i engine had a lot of down-low torque but didn't have the high end horsepower the M3 had. If you bought a 335i but wanted the high-revving engine you bought the wrong car for your use case. Now, could Tesla change this - probably. Will they change it - who knows.

I would rather provide you with facts so you don't end up disappointed having purchased a car that isn't providing what you want.

 

[Bzinsky]

It's not a Performance vs. AWD thing.

I owned a M3 LRAWD and now a M3P. Both gave you that "shot out of the cannon" feeling, just the M3P is more. What you describe is almost like a turbo lag. There's none of that in the AWD cars. Maybe has to do with the Y's weight? Or just different tuning? Not sure.

nice, just the info I was looking for

Yeah I’m thinking they tuned it differently for some reason. I put the pedal to the floor and it felt slower than my 6.2 sierra. Then around 10-15mph it started pulling pretty good.

It’s not completely useless at low speed like an 80’s 911 turbo. I compare more to like a gasoline v6. But I was expecting that electric car full torque at 0mph. It didn’t have it.

Not sure if it matters, but this was my buddies brand new car. Picked it up from dealer and drove straight to my house. Musta had 5 miles on it.

 

[asian_xl]

When you floor a M3P, it gives you that canon feel described above. The Model S P85/90/100D should accelerate much quicker, but I heard owners who own both model said they don't give you the same, is that true?

I wonder if the GTR, R8, or the Mclarens feel the same.

 

[Bzinsky]

I drove the p100d and the model 3 performance back to back, I test drove them and took them both to their handling and acceleration limits. The salesman was super cool. The week prior I had rented a camaro SS for a week, so my handling expectation was very high.

The p100d - handled like absolute crap. I don’t know what the reviews are talking about and it handling well. It handles like a boat. The acceleration, is pretty nuts. I actually pulled over on the shoulder of the highway to a complete stop, waited for a tractor trailer in the middle lane to be even with my front bumper, and I floored it to merge. I never saw the back of the tractor trailer.
Overall I wasn’t really that impressed with the S. The interior was very meh and the handling was pretty poor.

Then I drove the model 3. The model 3 was almost as fun in a straight line. It was really at highway speeds that I noticed a big difference. The model 3 felt pretty lackluster punching it on the highway. The model 3 interior was way way cooler. It felt like the future. Way more sense of occasion. The driving position was sportier. The handling was much better too. It was considerably more fun to drive than the S. Even though the handling was much better, I still wasn’t impressed with it. It is a far cry from real sports car handling. Then I took a slow speed corner, really fast. Tires screeching. I punched it early....OMG the corner exit. I’d think an aftermarket suspension would help that car a lot.

There is no question that if I had to take any new tesla for free, and I couldn’t sell it, it’d be the m3p.

I would not like the m3p in a rural area where you spend most of your time at 50+mph. It does not handle long sweeping corners with sustained g’s. It does great at the transition though. The turn in was sharp and the corner exit was orgasm inducing. Everything that car is amazing at happens at low speeds though. I genuinely think a m3p is more fun than a miata, s2000, or boxster for carting around town and running errands. It’s the ultimate commuter, suburbia/city car. I’d take any real sports car for a fast curvy country road though.

 

[Ralbright]

Just drove a performance S, 3, and Y this last Saturday and can tell you that the Y is very underwhelming compared to the other two.

I was fully expecting to go ahead with the order for a y performance until I drove one. Sluggish acceleration compared to the 3, and the handling is pretty poor as well. The 3 dove much smoother / quieter, handled better, and accelerated significantly faster.

Order for M3P to be made after the new year!

 

[myoda]

I liked the efficiency of the Y that I test drove a few weeks ago, but am not a big fan of the jouncy ride on 20 inch rims. If it had air suspension, and adjustable headrests, I would be all in. It is easier to exit for us old geezers than the S or my ELR. I'll be evaluating a long range plus S over this weekend. I need the range of the S for my job - especially with a cold winter predicted.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I agree regarding the Y AWD - lackluster off the line - though keep in mind most people aren't buying a non-Performance Y for the performance. If you want a Y with Performance than I would buy a Performance Y.

3 AWD, IMO, is much better off the line than the Y. With the Power Boost it feels very similar to a Performance.

Try a Raven MS off the line. Don't swallow your dentures.

 

[cab]

I drove the p100d and the model 3 performance back to back, I test drove them and took them both to their handling and acceleration limits. The salesman was super cool. The week prior I had rented a camaro SS for a week, so my handling expectation was very high.

The p100d - handled like absolute crap. I don’t know what the reviews are talking about and it handling well. It handles like a boat. The acceleration, is pretty nuts. I actually pulled over on the shoulder of the highway to a complete stop, waited for a tractor trailer in the middle lane to be even with my front bumper, and I floored it to merge. I never saw the back of the tractor trailer.
Overall I wasn’t really that impressed with the S. The interior was very meh and the handling was pretty poor.

Then I drove the model 3. The model 3 was almost as fun in a straight line. It was really at highway speeds that I noticed a big difference. The model 3 felt pretty lackluster punching it on the highway. The model 3 interior was way way cooler. It felt like the future. Way more sense of occasion. The driving position was sportier. The handling was much better too. It was considerably more fun to drive than the S. Even though the handling was much better, I still wasn’t impressed with it. It is a far cry from real sports car handling. Then I took a slow speed corner, really fast. Tires screeching. I punched it early....OMG the corner exit. I’d think an aftermarket suspension would help that car a lot.

There is no question that if I had to take any new tesla for free, and I couldn’t sell it, it’d be the m3p.

I would not like the m3p in a rural area where you spend most of your time at 50+mph. It does not handle long sweeping corners with sustained g’s. It does great at the transition though. The turn in was sharp and the corner exit was orgasm inducing. Everything that car is amazing at happens at low speeds though. I genuinely think a m3p is more fun than a miata, s2000, or boxster for carting around town and running errands. It’s the ultimate commuter, suburbia/city car. I’d take any real sports car for a fast curvy country road though.

In many ways, the Model 3P may be the car for the roads we WISH we drove every day and the S is the car for the roads we ACTUALLY drive every day.. A harsh reality for car enthusiasts...but one I’ve come increasingly to terms with...mostly.

 

[cab]

Comments on the Model Y AWD here are reflected in Car and Driver’s review where they seemed to feel it compared poorly to the Model 3 in the area of driving dynamics.

Tested: 2020 Tesla Model Y Crosses Over Into the Mainstream

 

[dfwatt]

I drove the p100d and the model 3 performance back to back, I test drove them and took them both to their handling and acceleration limits. The salesman was super cool. The week prior I had rented a camaro SS for a week, so my handling expectation was very high.

The p100d - handled like absolute crap. I don’t know what the reviews are talking about and it handling well. It handles like a boat. The acceleration, is pretty nuts. I actually pulled over on the shoulder of the highway to a complete stop, waited for a tractor trailer in the middle lane to be even with my front bumper, and I floored it to merge. I never saw the back of the tractor trailer.
Overall I wasn’t really that impressed with the S. The interior was very meh and the handling was pretty poor.

Then I drove the model 3. The model 3 was almost as fun in a straight line. It was really at highway speeds that I noticed a big difference. The model 3 felt pretty lackluster punching it on the highway. The model 3 interior was way way cooler. It felt like the future. Way more sense of occasion. The driving position was sportier. The handling was much better too. It was considerably more fun to drive than the S. Even though the handling was much better, I still wasn’t impressed with it. It is a far cry from real sports car handling. Then I took a slow speed corner, really fast. Tires screeching. I punched it early....OMG the corner exit. I’d think an aftermarket suspension would help that car a lot.

There is no question that if I had to take any new tesla for free, and I couldn’t sell it, it’d be the m3p.

I would not like the m3p in a rural area where you spend most of your time at 50+mph. It does not handle long sweeping corners with sustained g’s. It does great at the transition though. The turn in was sharp and the corner exit was orgasm inducing. Everything that car is amazing at happens at low speeds though. I genuinely think a m3p is more fun than a miata, s2000, or boxster for carting around town and running errands. It’s the ultimate commuter, suburbia/city car. I’d take any real sports car for a fast curvy country road though.

Those were my impressions as well. And after I drove a Model S after I tricked out my Model 3 with a boatload of MPP Parts (Sport coilovers, spherical bushings, front lower control arm bushing, traction arms, trailing arm etc., etc) the handling difference was so painful that I just could not imagine owning a Model S in any form even the Plaid unless they do some kind of radical makeover of the suspension. Dynamically, it is like you say, a boat. It wallows, it has really minimal steering feedback and its response to transient inputs is dismal compared to a properly prepped model 3.

Now admittedly I'm not really comparing apples to oranges (I've got way more tire on my car which is 800 pounds lighter, and a way better suspension). A car as heavy as the model S needs at least a 275 tire in front and at least a 295 Tire in the rear. And of course that will impact your range. But that's one of my questions about the Plaid is whether they're going to get the suspension Dynamics up to Snuff so that it's more than just rocket sled acceleration. 0 to 60 in under 2 seconds is nice but it does not replace handling responsiveness and the amazingly light on its feet feel that you have in a properly set up Model 3, esp. for a 4000 pound car. It feels like it weighs maybe thirty-five hundred pounds tops. It rotates really nicely and quickly, is pretty close to neutral at the limit and the limits are astonishingly high with proper tires, wheels and suspension. Even with the shocks set at 10 / 8 it's still very comfortable and the ride handling balance is just about perfect in my estimation. It feels a lot like the designers appreciated the great Colin Chapman aphorism - "do your best design and then add lightness".

 

[Zcd1]

...The model 3 performance felt like a big block chevy launch (all the power down low) The awd felt like a v6 launch, a little torquey down low but doesn’t really get going until you rev it out.

Is this how all the awd’s are tuned?

Thanks!

It's interesting reading your impressions.

By contrast, I've always felt that even the Model 3 P is software-limited from a dead stop. I've read that the Model Y's throttle calibration is even softer off the line, and of course a Model Y AWD would be softer yet.

The Model 3 AWD is absolutely softer off the line than the P, but 0-60 in the low 4 second (or even high 3-second) range is hardly "slow", even compared to something like a Camaro SS.

 

[dfwatt]

I have not driven a y performance.

i understand that the performance models have more power. What I don’t understand is why the available power is delivered in a different manner. In the model 3p it feels like all of it’s available power is on tap from a stop. In the awd it feels like only part of its power is available from a stop. I’m not talking about the difference in peak power. I’m talking about the p0ower curve.

To make it even more clear, if the m3p makes 500ft lbs of torque, it feels like that is available at 0mph.

If the awd makes 350ft lbs of torque, it feels like only 250 of it is available from a stop and the rest of it gradually comes available as you speed up. Felt like it had full torque available around 10-15 mph.

Kinda of an odd way for tesla to tune them.

It's not an odd way to tune them when you understand the pluses and minuses of an electric drive train. In general electric drivetrains are superior to internal combustion engine drivetrains but I won't get into all the complexities of that except simply to note that they tend to have fairly flat horsepower curves, unlike the peaky power curves of internal combustion engines that require multiple gears and complex transmissions.

But they're not perfectly flat. If you look at the power curves for the rear motor you will see that power starts to drop off at about 50 miles an hour and fairly linearly declines from there due to something called field weakening which is a property of electric motor torque as they get into high RPM ranges. This would mean that if you have various trims with different power levels it would make no sense to attenuate the power at higher speeds which is modest relative to the potential power down low. This in a sense easily explains why it's the low end that differentiates the various trims. At your high price point you simply allow the inverters to develop their maximum power. You cut that a bit back for the AWD version and then in the rear wheel drive version again you're going to have less power because there's only one motor. Easy way to create three levels of power and performance without any extra cost. Last but not least most people are looking for acceleration down low and outside of folks tracking the car or doing half mile racing or something like that the power over 80 to 90 miles an hour is not critical. To say nothing of not legal.

You can mitigate the roll off of power at higher motor RPMs by giving the car a second gear as Porsche has done but of course that's a whole another level of complexity and cost. But it does explain why the Porsche Taycan pulls more strongly over 90 miles an hour relative to the Tesla Model S which again has a direct drive single gear