EAP and FSD: is the hardware currently different?

[lschult2]

My understanding is that all M3 are installed with the same hardware (at least currently), whether ordered with EAP or FSD or neither. Then EAP or FSD purchased after delivery is just a software mechanism, requiring no new hardware be installed.

But a Tesla rep is now telling me that no, when I purchased FSD last year, that the car was installed with different hardware. That doesn’t make sense to me, since everything I read has said upgrading to these features later can be done over the air.

Does anyone have any information to confirm what is actually happening?

 

[run-the-joules]

Exactly the same.

 

[woodisgood]

Same hardware for now. FSD purchasers are supposedly promised new hardware at some point, but some believe that offer will be rescinded or that plans have changed.

 

[lschult2]

That's what I thought too. Thank you for confirming.

FYI, I have been unhappy with my FSD purchase, as I feel misled by Tesla regarding it's timeframe. I've asked for a refund, and of course they said no. But I think they are lying to me now as to why they are refusing. I'll make a separate post with the details.

 

[BOBEDIGITL]

I don't think they've ever had a specific time frame for FSD. If I remember correctly, they've been selling FSD since 2016 with the promise of it being released in the future. Friend of mine purchased it on his model S when they first started offering it and he's yet to use it. Curious to know how you feel you've been misled.

 

[lschult2]

Where I feel misled is that I had no idea the timeframe could be a year or more. Had I know that, I would not have purchased it up front and would have waited. What's misleading was probably not the official Tesla wording on the timeframe, but Elon's tweets that FSD features would be imminent. I did purchase FSD based on the impression from multiple tweets that it was coming very soon.

The other thing that was misleading was that buying FSD up front would result in the best price. That's clearly not the case as those that did not buy it are now paying less to upgrade to FSD than I paid.

It's the combination of the two that make this most bothersome for me.

 

[BOBEDIGITL]

Where I feel misled is that I had no idea the timeframe could be a year or more. Had I know that, I would not have purchased it up front and would have waited. What's misleading was probably not the official Tesla wording on the timeframe, but Elon's tweets that FSD features would be imminent. I did purchase FSD based on the impression from multiple tweets that it was coming very soon.

The other thing that was misleading was that buying FSD up front would result in the best price. That's clearly not the case as those that did not buy it are now paying less to upgrade to FSD than I paid.

It's the combination of the two that make this most bothersome for me.

Ya I hear you. But if you based your decision on Elon's tweets, I think that's where you made the mistake. Plus, I'm sure you're aware of "Elon Time".

And as far as the whole AP/FSD price reductions, you and along with countless others are on that same boat. I feel you on that one. Fortunately for me, at the time I purchased my car, I didn't purchase EAP/FSD. I order AP as soon as the prices dropped. Then when they said the prices were going back up, I decided to also get AP. I definitely feel for those who purchased EAP and FSD on the promise of getting the lowest pricing.

 

[lschult2]

Ya I hear you. But if you based your decision on Elon's tweets, I think that's where you made the mistake. Plus, I'm sure you're aware of "Elon Time".

And as far as the whole AP/FSD price reductions, you and along with countless others are on that same boat. I feel you on that one. Fortunately for me, at the time I purchased my car, I didn't purchase EAP/FSD. I order AP as soon as the prices dropped. Then when they said the prices were going back up, I decided to also get AP. I definitely feel for those who purchased EAP and FSD on the promise of getting the lowest pricing.

Sounds like you approached EAP/FSD the smart way, as you didn't believe Tesla's story. I believed them, which is why I'm in this predicament.

You are correct that this clearly is "Elon Time". But so was the whole Model 3 launch timeline. They did offer refunds on M3 deposits for anyone who wanted. So "Elon Time" hadn't bothered me on the M3 deposit, as I knew I could get my money back or wait; it was my choice. Here there was clear messaging that FSD would be soon and buying up front would be best price. Neither of those happened. The mistake I think here is Tesla's, not mine. All I'm asking is for money back for something which Tesla never delivered. They honored that for M3 deposits, but not FSD "deposits". They could clearly do this, if they chose to.

 

[SMAlset]

Where I feel misled is that I had no idea the timeframe could be a year or more. Had I know that, I would not have purchased it up front and would have waited. What's misleading was probably not the official Tesla wording on the timeframe, but Elon's tweets that FSD features would be imminent. I did purchase FSD based on the impression from multiple tweets that it was coming very soon.

The other thing that was misleading was that buying FSD up front would result in the best price. That's clearly not the case as those that did not buy it are now paying less to upgrade to FSD than I paid.

It's the combination of the two that make this most bothersome for me.

Did you ask anyone about the timeframe at the time of purchase if it was a big concern to you? As software/hardware development and especially AI has so many unknowns and this was a totally new feature endeavor no one had come out with, I would find it hard to believe there was any belief the government would be approving anything anytime soon. Even with Waymo and Google technology on the road being tested it was clear FSD on any vehicle is still a ways out even last year when you bought your car. Tesla has been working hard and making progress on this as well as other manufacturers out there looking to produce self-driving vehicles. I have no doubt features of it are getting closer every month. I'm looking forward to seeing the stop lights aspect being close to beta release. This is not an easy thing to accomplish and Elon has said as much many times but I think you know that so not so much a surprise.

As I mentioned in your other thread I suspected this is about having bought technology still in development at one price and having seen the price go down recently you feel you deserve some break. It was a temporary price reduction and that's not to say once it does get final government approval at some stage (Level 4 or 5) that the price won't be higher. So are you a shopper who buys a product and sees it later in the store on sale and goes back asking for a refund so you can rebuy at a cheaper price? Maybe you can talk them into giving you a refund for the whole car, those prices changed too over time.

 

[lschult2]

Did you ask anyone about the timeframe at the time of purchase if it was a big concern to you? As software/hardware development and especially AI has so many unknowns and this was a totally new feature endeavor no one had come out with, I would find it hard to believe there was any belief the government would be approving anything anytime soon. Even with Waymo and Google technology on the road being tested it was clear FSD on any vehicle is still a ways out even last year when you bought your car. Tesla has been working hard and making progress on this as well as other manufacturers out there looking to produce self-driving vehicles. I have no doubt features of it are getting closer every month. I'm looking forward to seeing the stop lights aspect being close to beta release. This is not an easy thing to accomplish and Elon has said as much many times but I think you know that so not so much a surprise.

As I mentioned in your other thread I suspected this is about having bought technology still in development at one price and having seen the price go down recently you feel you deserve some break. It was a temporary price reduction and that's not to say once it does get final government approval at some stage (Level 4 or 5) that the price won't be higher. So are you a shopper who buys a product and sees it later in the store on sale and goes back asking for a refund so you can rebuy at a cheaper price?

I asked Elon. He tweeted it was coming soon. He's been consistent on the very soon, around the corner message. In January 2017 he even said it would be 3-6 months.

I am a shopper who pre-ordered a product with the promise of it coming soon and getting the lowest price for pre-ordering, sees it a year later in the store on pre-order at a lower price, and then is wondering why the hell I pre-ordered it at the higher price. The store still doesn't have the product, and I'm the sucker who believed them and paid the higher price.

 

[SMAlset]

There are alot of people who have ordered EAP and FSD and don't feel like they were suckers.

 

[lschult2]

There are alot of people who have ordered EAP and FSD and don't feel like they were suckers.

EAP is awesome. FSD is vaporware and I do feel like a sucker for buying it. There are lots of other people on this forum who feel the same way. And you are correct that there are people who feel fine with it. The key here is Tesla could easily supply refunds to the former group if they wanted to. There is nothing installed in my car which would prevent that. So there is no difference to Tesla between me not ordering it in the first place and them giving a refund.

 

[Tam]

...I'm the sucker...

Welcome to the club!

But remember you have to pay in order to get that title.

The legal problem here is people keep trusting optimistic marketing info but ignoring legal disclaimers.

The legal disclaimers are very clear: You'll get what you paid for ONLY IF:

1) It passes all validated testings. Remember, Tesla is still crashing into stationary obstacles even in this year. This not what I would say a passing score.

2) Governmental approvals: Even when it passes all the testings, you'll still have to overcome the bureaucracy hurdles.

It's a risky buy if you are a prudent consumer who would only make a decision based on proven validated testings and not an uncertainty of "IF".

I have no problem in taking that risk because I love technology and love to be a beta tester even if the project may fail.

 

[Tam]

....a refund.

This is a policy/legal issue.

Of course, Tesla can issue you a refund and I doubt it would affect Tesla at all. But the question is: Will it?

1) The policy is clear: Tesla won't.
2) Legal: I doubt that buyer's remorse would have a case based on legal disclaimers.

 

[lschult2]

This is a policy/legal issue.

Of course, Tesla can issue you a refund and I doubt it would affect Tesla at all. But the question is: Will it?

1) The policy is clear: Tesla won't.
2) Legal: I doubt that buyer's remorse would have a case based on legal disclaimers.

Thanks again for your input. My big question I still don't have answered is why Telsa won't. If I understood why, I may have just dropped the request. But when I asked them, I got a lie in response, which just riled me up. That was the start of this post, to confirm with TMC whether there were hardware differences, and TMC has confirmed there are not. I don't know why they would lie about it, and that is what is troubling me the most right now.

 

[Darmie]

Purchased FSD on the X. Prior to reached out to Tesla asking about the pricing for in my portal it was showing $3000.00. Few days later the manage section shows $2000.00. Made the purchase a few weeks back. The other day, received an email from Tesla with the following information about hardware.

We appreciate your interest in the recent price changes, here is a summary of the changes and what is included with each upgrade. The Full Self-Driving promotional price of $2,000 is available to any Tesla owner who previous to the 2/28/2019 announcement had purchased Enhanced Auto Pilot.
Full Self-Driving Capability

• Overview: Includes features like Navigate on Autopilot, Auto Lane Change, Autopark and Summon, as well as features we will be releasing later this year such as traffic light and stop sign recognition. As we continue to release new features, those who purchase Full Self-Driving will get them for free through regular over-the-air software updates.
• Features: Navigate on Autopilot, Summon, Auto Lane Change, Autopark and Full Self-Driving features in the future
• Pricing: USD $5,000 pre-delivery, USD $5,500 during trial, USD $7,000 after delivery
• Once the Hardware 3 upgrade is ready to be installed (which is included with the FSD purchase) we will notify you to schedule a service center appointment.

Tesla holds all the cards here I understand this however, my reason for purchasing FSD was all about the last bullet noting hardware 3.
I know it's not to relevant to the 3 but at least you know what's going on in the S and X community.

 

[lampcord]

I've heard some speculate that once FSD is fully operational that Tesla might up the price on it. I don't think they could get away with that with people who have already purchased the car but new purchasers might be expected to pay more for a fully working system at delivery time.

 

[Tam]

I've heard some speculate that once FSD is fully operational that Tesla might up the price on it....

So, logically, they should encourage owners to get refunds from all the cheap purchases now so they can charge more after it's operational.