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EAP HW2 - my experience thus far... [DJ Harry]

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Just a few comments:

Update:

2) I don't hover my foot over the brake pedal anymore. Keep it firmly planted next to the brake and now know what to expect.

This I think is really important advice with any TACC/ACC system. Don't camp/hover your foot over ANY pedal. That doesn't buy you much reaction time but opens yourself to a world of errors (wrong pedal, slightly resting on a pedal which inhibits braking or accidentally disengages TACC at the exact wrong moment, etc etc etc).

Just rest your foot comfortably on the ground near the brake. You can go from that position to braking in a split second. Try it in a parking lot if you don't believe me!


- Also noticed a new behavior, occasionally a message pops-up asking you to press the accelerator to get you going from a full stop. ( perhaps checking if you have fallen asleep with your hands on the wheel?) :)

On AP1 this triggers if any of your side whiskers turned red while stopped, or if a pedestrian is walking nearby. Not sure what the AP2 conditions are.


Few questions to the experts..
1) With TACC engaged and the car rapidly slows down in an emergency , does it account for the car behind you at all? Any move to avoid being rear-ended?

On AP1, no, and probably the answer is no for AP2 right now too. Very few cars on the market have active secondary collision avoidance, and most just passively brace you for an impact (e.g. move your seats a bit, tension your belt) if they sense a collision. Tesla with AP1 has no rear-ending awareness and won't do anything for you.

I'd imagine this will eventually arrive as a safety feature for HW2 cars, but right now, no. Your AP software protects your self-interest, which is to protect you from rear-ending someone, but what they do behind you is their problem.

2) Can Autosteer spot/register motorbikes speeding b/w the lanes? There was this one-time where a motorcycle zipped past me and I only noticed him after but made me extremely nervous.

AP1 does not really handle that. Motorcycles do tend to activate the side whiskers and that leads to your car slightly offsetting itself in the lane to make room for a motorcycle, but this happens very slowly. Certainly not fast enough for when a motorcycle zips past you. As trivia: I was talking with a coworker who rides a bike, and he offhandedly remarked that in heavy traffic he just rides really close to the rear bumper corner of a Tesla and it gradually moves over. So umm…. maybe astute bikers have already figured out how to force AP to play nicely and lane split? I certainly don't rely on it. I use AP/TACC as an opportunity to pay more attention behind me looking for bikers.

I hope that HW2 can improve on this. It certainly has cameras pointed at the right places to lane split properly in advance, but again, on the list of future improvements :)

3) Does TACC do anything when a car in the adjacent lane turn on their indicator?

The 8.0 release notes (for AP1) did say "better cut-in detection via turn markers", but I haven't seen that work out in the real world. Instead, I did notice that AP1 on 8.0 is much much better about rapidly putting on the brakes when a nearby car enters your lane (either to cut you off or accidentally).

I am guessing this behavior will get better for HW2 as lane awareness gets better and HW2 starts showing cars in adjacent lanes.
 
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The computers in AP1 cars have no information about cars behind you more than 16 feet. Therefore, TACC has never changed it's behavior based on that.


Just to whine a bit: The 16 feet figure IMO is a joke. I've tried my best with a laser rangefinder to see at what distance the blind spot sensors start showing whiskers on AP1, and it's about 4 to 5 feet with a +/- 4cm police laser gun.
 
Just to whine a bit: The 16 feet figure IMO is a joke. I've tried my best with a laser rangefinder to see at what distance the blind spot sensors start showing whiskers on AP1, and it's about 4 to 5 feet with a +/- 4cm police laser gun.

I was just amused by your description of the Ultrasound results as "whiskers." :)

One of the things I've learned is that the car sees a lot of things it doesn't pass on to us (like the walking pedestrian that only shows up in the instrument cluster if they trigger AEB...)
 
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I was just amused by your description of the Ultrasound results as "whiskers." :)

One of the things I've learned is that the car sees a lot of things it doesn't pass on to us (like the walking pedestrian that only shows up in the instrument cluster if they trigger AEB...)


Haha years ago, I said my old car was equipped with "tactile haptic parking sensors" :D



I completely agree that it's possible the car is seeing cars that it's not showing on the screen…. But I've had some unbelievably close calls with Auto Lane Change where I issued my turn signal when a car was beside me and my Tesla wanted to start moving into the lane immediately!

I haven't worked up the guts to ask a friend if he wants to drive next to me on the freeway to see what would happen if I don't take over :D
 
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False positive


Engaged TACC on a surface street today. Had a car in front of me ( perhaps 30 feet ahead and speed of 40-30 mph slowing down for red light ). The car ahead started slowing down and moved to a left turn lane( fairly smoothly). TACC out of the blue turned the car red on the instrument panel and beeped applying the auto emergency brake for a split second. Wasn't too scary except that I was worried about the person behind me surprised by the whole thing. And possibly rear ending.


My guess is something to do with the crossroads. As the person ahead moved out and cleared the line of sight perhaps had TACC thinking something was moving the wrong way . Happened to anyone else ?
 
Also got to use Autosteer for about 20 mins during the 8 hours of driving and my confidence is growing :
- however still cant get used to the constant steering adjustment at low speeds . Doesnt visibly move the car , but its tiring on your hands.

AP HW1 driver here with a few thousand miles of autopilot. Why is slow-speed autosteer tiring on your hands?

Usually I have one or two hands on the steering wheel around the 5-7 o'clock positions. I usually give the wheel a tug every often, first to tell any nag timers that I'm still there but secondly to feel the feedback on the wheel so I know that autosteer is still engaged. (I definitely give a tug when I first engage autosteering, purely for the second reason) There's almost no stress on my hands or arms at all. So we must be doing different things...???...

Bruce.
 
AP HW1 driver here with a few thousand miles of autopilot. Why is slow-speed autosteer tiring on your hands?

Usually I have one or two hands on the steering wheel around the 5-7 o'clock positions. I usually give the wheel a tug every often, first to tell any nag timers that I'm still there but secondly to feel the feedback on the wheel so I know that autosteer is still engaged. (I definitely give a tug when I first engage autosteering, purely for the second reason) There's almost no stress on my hands or arms at all. So we must be doing different things...???...

Bruce.

AP HW1 user here with 16,000 miles in 6 months ;-)

I can sort of understand what he's saying. Being able to exert the full weight/tension of your arms/shoulders on the steering wheel (As in manual driving) is a lot less taxing compared to applying gentle but firm pressure on the steering wheel (enough the please the torque sensor and not too much to override minute steering adjustments).

I found that the most comfortable position for me is to take my feet off both of the pedals and use my elevated knees as a rest for my elbow, holding the steering wheel. Can still reach the pedals in a very quick amount of time, but it prevents my shoulders from tensing up.
 
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Update:



2) Can Autosteer spot/register motorbikes speeding b/w the lanes? There was this one-time where a motorcycle zipped past me and I only noticed him after but made me extremely nervous.

3) Does TACC do anything when a car in the adjacent lane turn on their indicator?

on the motorbike question, captured one in front yesterday. it shows it on the dash as a car and not a bike (on AP1 are motorbikes shows on the dash differently?) . It does try to follow it as the bike splits lane but looks like it is work in progress on AP2
 
AP HW1 user here with 16,000 miles in 6 months ;-)

I can sort of understand what he's saying. Being able to exert the full weight/tension of your arms/shoulders on the steering wheel (As in manual driving) is a lot less taxing compared to applying gentle but firm pressure on the steering wheel (enough the please the torque sensor and not too much to override minute steering adjustments).

Right, I think we're in agreement (maybe?). I can put the full weight of my arm on the steering wheel if I'm holding at the bottom of the wheel. I feel pretty relaxed.

I found that the most comfortable position for me is to take my feet off both of the pedals and use my elevated knees as a rest for my elbow, holding the steering wheel. Can still reach the pedals in a very quick amount of time, but it prevents my shoulders from tensing up.

BTW I totally agree with your comment up thread about keeping your feet away from the pedals. (Unless I see a situation developing where I'm anticipating taking control in the next few seconds.)

Bruce.
 
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Right, I think we're in agreement (maybe?). I can put the full weight of my arm on the steering wheel if I'm holding at the bottom of the wheel. I feel pretty relaxed.



BTW I totally agree with your comment up thread about keeping your feet away from the pedals. (Unless I see a situation developing where I'm anticipating taking control in the next few seconds.)

Bruce.
I totally agree with everything you said too :)

I think the bottom line is AP2 users are just starting to experience Autosteer, and there is a bit of a learning curve to it. Everyone will eventually find a comfortable position but both of us probably experimented with a few before settling on the one that works for us.
 
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False positive


Engaged TACC on a surface street today. Had a car in front of me ( perhaps 30 feet ahead and speed of 40-30 mph slowing down for red light ). The car ahead started slowing down and moved to a left turn lane( fairly smoothly). TACC out of the blue turned the car red on the instrument panel and beeped applying the auto emergency brake for a split second. Wasn't too scary except that I was worried about the person behind me surprised by the whole thing. And possibly rear ending.


My guess is something to do with the crossroads. As the person ahead moved out and cleared the line of sight perhaps had TACC thinking something was moving the wrong way . Happened to anyone else ?

TACC/AP is very sensitive to cars moving out of the lane - it treats them as fully in the lane and needing to be stopped for until they get completely out of the lane, rather than assuming that since they're part way out and moving further out, they aren't a problem.

I suspect this might be related to the "stopped truck half in the lane" accidents last year. Whether it is or not, what you're describing sounds like typical AP behavior, and is one of the places I'm most likely to override TACC/AP.
 
There are also radar aliasing effects. Tesla's current Bosch radar patch likely only measures 1-D radar data categorized with directional heuristics (e.g. it's able to tell if a reflection is strongest ahead, to the left, or to the right, but not pinpoint 2-D distance).

As a result, a car that's beside you, combined with a radar reflector that's near the road or close in front of you, may convince TACC that there is a car in front of you (farther away). I would guess there is a strong reliance on using the camera to explain away radar signatures.
 
I totally agree with everything you said too :)

I think the bottom line is AP2 users are just starting to experience Autosteer, and there is a bit of a learning curve to it. Everyone will eventually find a comfortable position but both of us probably experimented with a few before settling on the one that works for us.
@chillaban and @bmah . Good comments and tip. Firstly there is certainly a learning curve and a trust that needs to be build. Specfically at low speeds the AutoSteer moves a lot more than I would have. If you remember the old movie scenes where the actors have the exagerated steering wheel motion , that's what it feels like :)
 
on the motorbike question, captured one in front yesterday. it shows it on the dash as a car and not a bike (on AP1 are motorbikes shows on the dash differently?) . It does try to follow it as the bike splits lane but looks like it is work in progress on AP2

Thanks. Tesla replied saying EAP can see them and thanks for confirming. They weren't very sure about what happens while splitting lanes scenario. They also confirmed that there is no turn signal detection from other cars "yet".

"Captured", they could soon turn the cars and bikes into Pokémon charectors that needs to be chase and captured.
 
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