Ear pain/Pressure help

[azeteg]

Of course this is not as serious as in wheel well because there the moisture and road salt combination may cause rust.

Yeah I may need to revisit this. I will find something else for this location.

Thank you for opening you sound deadening process and thoughts. Do you have any ideas that I could try next?

Sounds like you have done quite a lot already.

What I'll be trying out myself, is to attach a BMW branded tuned mass damper (33Hz) to some resonance points to see if it helps to reduce the 30-33Hz peak we are experiencing. Not sure about the Q factor of this one, but it should be wide enough to at least help a bit below 33Hz. I should be receiving this (used part) today or tomorrow. I'll of course report my findings here.

 

[JTube]

What I'll be trying out myself, is to attach a BMW branded tuned mass damper (33Hz) to some resonance points to see if it helps to reduce the 30-33Hz peak we are experiencing. Not sure about the Q factor of this one, but it should be wide enough to at least help a bit below 33Hz. I should be receiving this (used part) today or tomorrow. I'll of course report my findings here.

This is interesting. Have you decided where to attach this damper? On wheel well?

I noticed, when I looked the most recent graphs I've measured, that at 100km/h the difference is much bigger between before and after than at 80km/h. Maybe this is one of the reasons why your 125km/h difference is even bigger. Probably the difference increases when speed increases. I haven't done the testing on 125km/h. Did you do testing on any other speeds than 125km/h? I was also surprised that adding the vinyl tubing on hatch seal actually affected on wider range than just low frequencies. Maybe I still need to add rigid hatch stops and check how will they affect.

 

[JTube]

This is interesting. Have you decided where to attach this damper? On wheel well?

I noticed, when I looked the most recent graphs I've measured, that at 100km/h the difference is much bigger between before and after than at 80km/h. Maybe this is one of the reasons why your 125km/h difference is even bigger. Probably the difference increases when speed increases. I haven't done the testing on 125km/h. Did you do testing on any other speeds than 125km/h? I was also surprised that adding the vinyl tubing on hatch seal actually affected on wider range than just low frequencies. Maybe I still need to add rigid hatch stops and check how will they affect.

View attachment 986686

On second thought, this doesn't change the truth that you observed clearly the reduction in noise when I didn't

 

[cab]

Yeah I may need to revisit this. I will find something else for this location.


Sounds like you have done quite a lot already.

What I'll be trying out myself, is to attach a BMW branded tuned mass damper (33Hz) to some resonance points to see if it helps to reduce the 30-33Hz peak we are experiencing. Not sure about the Q factor of this one, but it should be wide enough to at least help a bit below 33Hz. I should be receiving this (used part) today or tomorrow. I'll of course report my findings here.

View attachment 986669

This just shows the challenges of dealing with NVH. For YEARS now, so much of the answer has often come down to "bolt a bunch of weight to the car". I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that my own old 67 Firebird convertible has four 25 lbs weights (oil filled canisters) - one in each corner. These were added to the convertibles only to quell all the vibrations that occurred once the top was lopped off the car. Beyond that, in researching the buffeting and boominess on other cars, I found the early Porsche Cayman (with it's big flat hatch) had the issue and Porsche added a weight to the hatch that was suspended with flexible rubber (i.e. it moved with the hatch movement as a sort of counterweight - I even bought one...the weight, not the Cayman!).

 

[azeteg]

Ok, here another update:

I found a reasonable way to mount the BMW tuned mass damper in the trunk door. I had to cut off the original mount a bit and drill a hole in the center of the mount - then it fit perfectly behind the camera mount in the trunk lid.

I also added some small butyl strips to the trunk lid while installing the tuned mass damper.

Result: I think that I've achieved a bass noise level that I'm comfortable with. Especially at speeds 125-130kmh, where the droning was still quite apparent before, it is subdued. At lower speeds, the "ringy booms" after bumps also appears to be reduced.

Now to the measurement at 125kmh. It confirms my ears, showing a decrease of 3dB from my previous treated measurement, and now a total reduction of 9-10dB from the original peak at 30.8Hz. The response feels more even throughout the frequency spectrum now.

 

[cab]

Ok, here another update:

I found a reasonable way to mount the BMW tuned mass damper in the trunk door. I had to cut off the original mount a bit and drill a hole in the center of the mount - then it fit perfectly behind the camera mount in the trunk lid.

I also added some small butyl strips to the trunk lid while installing the tuned mass damper.

Result: I think that I've achieved a bass noise level that I'm comfortable with. Especially at speeds 125-130kmh, where the droning was still quite apparent before, it is subdued. At lower speeds, the "ringy booms" after bumps also appears to be reduced.

Now to the measurement at 125kmh. It confirms my ears, showing a decrease of 3dB from my previous treated measurement, and now a total reduction of 9-10dB from the original peak at 30.8Hz. The response feels more even throughout the frequency spectrum now.

View attachment 987869
View attachment 987870
View attachment 987875

View attachment 987871
View attachment 987874
View attachment 987873

Very cool (and nice job on making it easily removable if needed w/o evidence it was there). How much does that weight weigh? Any noticeable change in the auto opening (i.e. any detectable straining from motor, etc.)? As an aside, here is the hatch "counterweight" I mentioned that Porsche used on the Cayman hatch. It operates differently as it has a flexible mount and, I think, as the hatch bounces up and down it almost tries to act as a counterweight in addition to damper. A few pics of it (note: you can see the flexibility of the mount in one of the pics where I bend it).

 

[flixden]

We have had our model Y since June. Had a number of issues that have been fixed including misaligned trim, the back seat noise, loose amplifier, and a rock chip.

May I ask what the back seat noise is?
Thanks in advance!

 

[azeteg]

Very cool (and nice job on making it easily removable if needed w/o evidence it was there). How much does that weight weigh? Any noticeable change in the auto opening (i.e. any detectable straining from motor, etc.)?

The weight is about 650g. No impairment of auto hatch open mechanism.

I think I can tune down the frequency a bit, to achieve optimal damping. Adding about 100g should do it, based on my calculations.

Cool to see a similar solution done for the Cayman. I’m aware of a few BMW models that have these in the trunk lid - proof of NVH engineers getting their wishes through!

 

[dundel]

Have a 2023 MY, 2 months old. And after a 2 hour drive this noise/pressure buffering is driving me crazy. I adjusted posts and inserted 5/16 vinyl tube. Might've helped a bit but... I did envelope test on the rubber strip (where 5/16 vinyl was inserted) and it slides out with almost no resistance, is that normal? My thinking is if that rubber is not tight with the tail door could be a contributing factor to the problem and create the pressure issue that is driving me crazy? Was thinking may be I should install D-channel rubber seal on the door itself so when it closes it meets rubber seal on the car and helps to make a tighter seal? Have anyone tried that or thinks its ok as is?

 

[dundel]

View attachment 987869

What do you use to get these graphs? I would like to get measurements on my car as well.

 

[ilovecoffee]

Have a 2023 MY, 2 months old. And after a 2 hour drive this noise/pressure buffering is driving me crazy. I adjusted posts and inserted 5/16 vinyl tube. Might've helped a bit but... I did envelope test on the rubber strip (where 5/16 vinyl was inserted) and it slides out with almost no resistance, is that normal? My thinking is if that rubber is not tight with the tail door could be a contributing factor to the problem and create the pressure issue that is driving me crazy? Was thinking may be I should install D-channel rubber seal on the door itself so when it closes it meets rubber seal on the car and helps to make a tighter seal? Have anyone tried that or thinks its ok as is?

The paper won't be held in by just the gasket itself, that's normal.

You can add additional rubber seal, I can't say for sure it will do much.

If you feel that it's still so-so, you can try upping the tubing to 3/8" OD (that is what I use). It's harder to get through and will result in more pressure (at first) when closing, but it seems there are slight variations between Model Ys and some work better with this, and others not.

 

[dundel]

The paper won't be held in by just the gasket itself, that's normal.

You can add additional rubber seal, I can't say for sure it will do much.

If you feel that it's still so-so, you can try upping the tubing to 3/8" OD (that is what I use). It's harder to get through and will result in more pressure (at first) when closing, but it seems there are slight variations between Model Ys and some work better with this, and others not.

Thanks for your response. I guess worth trying... just ordered 3/8" OD tube. Scheduled a service at my local Tesla in 2 weeks to see what they say, I think I know what to expect but the more people complain more attention it will get from Tesla (at least in theory . I guess I should pull the tube out before the appointment.

Also, I would like to do measurements so ordered Tascam DR-05X to take recordings of the noise and get some objective numbers. it should pick up 20Hz - 20kHz so that should cover low frequencies as well.
Such an annoying issue for a 50K car... wanted to get a QX60 but decided to save the planet lol.
For my daily commute, I use local roads so it was never a huge issue, but now there is another few-hour trip next week, and the thought of driving this car makes me want to rent something instead. My wife doesn't hear anything for whatever reason, at least not to the point of wanting to get rid of it. But since I have a buzzing in the ear for the past day or two after the trip I'm scared that can do some ear damage to kids in the long run...

 

[ilovecoffee]

Thanks for your response. I guess worth trying... just ordered 3/8" OD tube. Scheduled a service at my local Tesla in 2 weeks to see what they say, I think I know what to expect but the more people complain more attention it will get from Tesla (at least in theory . I guess I should pull the tube out before the appointment.

Also, I would like to do measurements so ordered Tascam DR-05X to take recordings of the noise and get some objective numbers. it should pick up 20Hz - 20kHz so that should cover low frequencies as well.
Such an annoying issue for a 50K car... wanted to get a QX60 but decided to save the planet lol.
For my daily commute, I use local roads so it was never a huge issue, but now there is another few-hour trip next week, and the thought of driving this car makes me want to rent something instead. My wife doesn't hear anything for whatever reason, at least not to the point of wanting to get rid of it. But since I have a buzzing in the ear for the past day or two after the trip I'm scared that can do some ear damage to kids in the long run...

100% I get the dread. It can be solved though it just depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. You don't need to remove the tubing I don't think, all the service centre will try to do is re-align your hatch door stops. Rarely they put in these additional rubber stoppers near the tail lights that don't do much. That is a special order part though.

Most of it can be alleviated with that tubing and proper adjustment of the hatch stops. If you still want to go further, than sound deadening material on the rear wheel wells behind the plastic trim inside the car. That also gets rid of a lot of the low-frequency noise. Most things after that are pretty subjective, although there is some good data from @azeteg to show that sound-deadening material in the rear doors also helps considerably (this seems like a more difficult install though). And a parcel shelf if your car doesn't already have one.

 

[JTube]

What do you use to get these graphs? I would like to get measurements on my car as well.

I used Room EQ Wizard and I think those were also measured by using that.

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

It's been developed to measure home theater and audio equipment but works also great on car noise measurements. Of course you'll need a mic too. I'm using Umik-1 -microphone, which is not a professional grade gadget, but it is calibrated and way better than the mics on the phones.

 

[dundel]

I used Room EQ Wizard and I think those were also measured by using that.

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

It's been developed to measure home theater and audio equipment but works also great on car noise measurements. Of course you'll need a mic too. I'm using Umik-1 -microphone, which is not a professional grade gadget, but it is calibrated and way better than the mics on the phones.

In the meantime, I've got DaytonAudio UMM-6 microphone. Its a bit cheaper in the US and has a calibration file as well and seems like has good reviews overall. Didn't want to spend a bit extra on Umik since I'll use it just for that particular issue and then it will go in a box with other random one-time project purchases

Now installed REW software and when I click "Measure" should I just keep all settings default or does something need to be modified? Length 128k, Sample rate 48khz, level dBFS -12.00 dBFS. Not sure what any of this stuff means.
I guess the procedure is you drive with a laptop and then do "measure" a few times or you record it and then upload the file?

 

[JTube]

In the meantime, I've got DaytonAudio UMM-6 microphone. Its a bit cheaper in the US and has a calibration file as well and seems like has good reviews overall. Didn't want to spend a bit extra on Umik since I'll use it just for that particular issue and then it will go in a box with other random one-time project purchases

Now installed REW software and when I click "Measure" should I just keep all settings default or does something need to be modified? Length 128k, Sample rate 48khz, level dBFS -12.00 dBFS. Not sure what any of this stuff means.
I guess the procedure is you drive with a laptop and then do "measure" a few times or you record it and then upload the file?

Don't use the "Measure"-option, there the program is using an internal sine sweep to determine the frequency response of the speaker in a room. Instead, use the real time analyzer or RTA-option on the top menu. Select settings you want and press the rec-button. After recording you can save the chart. I'm using these settings, which I copied from some other forum. You can use different settings specially for "Mode" or "Smoothing" to get more readable results.

 

[tris]

@ilovecoffee Could you please clarify what exactly the tubing + stoppers adjustment method is supposed to solve?

I don't feel any pressure or pain in my ears when driving my MY but it's noisy over road imperfections (is that what referred as "boomminess"?), the noise is mostly low frequency, like a bass or drum in music. It'd be nice to make the car more quiet in that regard - will putting the tube help with that? Or is it mostly for cases when there is a significant movement of the liftgate that causing air pressure/movement and not just noise?

 

[ilovecoffee]

@ilovecoffee Could you please clarify what exactly the tubing + stoppers adjustment method is supposed to solve?

I don't feel any pressure or pain in my ears when driving my MY but it's noisy over road imperfections (is that what referred as "boomminess"?), the noise is mostly low frequency, like a bass or drum in music. It'd be nice to make the car more quiet in that regard - will putting the tube help with that? Or is it mostly for cases when there is a significant movement of the liftgate that causing air pressure/movement and not just noise?

Yes it'll help resolve a good chunk of that road imperfection low freq noise

 

[MY-Y]

@ilovecoffee Could you please clarify what exactly the tubing + stoppers adjustment method is supposed to solve?

I don't feel any pressure or pain in my ears when driving my MY but it's noisy over road imperfections (is that what referred as "boomminess"?), the noise is mostly low frequency, like a bass or drum in music. It'd be nice to make the car more quiet in that regard - will putting the tube help with that? Or is it mostly for cases when there is a significant movement of the liftgate that causing air pressure/movement and not just noise?

Both subsonic and ~40hz are addressed by eliminating excessive hatch movement.

 

[tris]

What's the take on these adjustable bottom stoppers?
They have about 30 degrees range that changes their angle as well and might be very important to how the top stoppers sit flush and hold the hatch.
Does anyone tried to test the effect of adjusting them and any ideas how it can be verified that they are set at the correct positing?