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Editorial: Why it is safer to have creep mode ON rather than OFF.

Discussion in 'Model X' started by commasign, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    Much of the prior discussions/debate about creep mode have related to user preference or familiarity with ICE car behavior. But in light of recent accidents, I thought it be worth pointing out an important safety consideration.

    First, answer the following question assuming creep mode is ON (same as an ICE car with automatic transmission):

    You are in the driver's seat of your Tesla and suddenly become disoriented (doze off, pass out, seizure, brain fart moment). When you come to, you realize the Tesla is not moving but your vision is blurry and you don't or can't look at the screens. Which gear could your Tesla be in?

    A) Drive
    B) Reverse
    C) Neutral or Park
    E) Any of the above.

    The answer is C.

    You suddenly stomp on a pedal, either the brake or accelerator, either intentionally or unintentionally. Which outcomes are possible?

    A) Car lunges forward at high speed.
    B) Car lunges backward at high speed.
    C) Car doesn't move.
    D) Any of the above.

    The answer is C.


    Now, answer the same question assuming creep mode is OFF.

    You are in the driver's seat of your Tesla and suddenly become disoriented (doze off, pass out, seizure, brain fart moment). When you come to, you realize the Tesla is not moving but your vision is blurry and you don't or can't look at the screens. Which gear could your Tesla be in?

    A) Drive
    B) Reverse
    C) Neutral or Park
    D) Any of the above.

    The answer is D.

    You suddenly stomp on a pedal, either the brake or accelerator, either intentionally or unintentionally. Which outcomes are possible?

    A) Car lunges forward at high speed.
    B) Car lunges backward at high speed.
    C) Car doesn't move.
    D) Any of the above.

    The answer is D.

    So, in summary, with creep mode ON, you have a very predictable experience with regard to gear and car behavior when the car is not moving. But with creep mode OFF, any sort of disorientation and suddenly you might not be able to tell what gear you are in and not know what might happen if you stomp on a pedal either intentionally or unintentionally.
     
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  2. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    I don't like creep but your reasoning is sound.
    I will get used to it in my 3.
     
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  3. newtman

    newtman Member

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    Your points seem to be really reaching to grasp logic.
    1) if you pass out while driving, a far bigger concern is getting the car off the road and stopped, then what the state of the car is if you're already stopped.
    2) If you suddenly stomp on the pedal, anything could happen, because you could be driving, you could be parked, you could just be sitting at a stop sign. Creep in no way has any impact on you stomping on a pedal or not.

    I get absolutely no utility out of creep.
     
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  4. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    Sorry, the scenario was more for parking lot type situations in the context of recent "accidents". By disoriented, I meant in the sense of having a momentary mental lapse where the car is stopped but you forgot what gear you are in since (with creep mode off) from car-is-not-moving point of view, all 4 gears (drive, reverse, neutral, and park) would be indistinguishable. I agree that when the car is already in motion, creep mode doesn't make any difference.
     
  5. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    That seems quite a stretch. If you're concerned about it, then turn creep off, but I can't see making that a general recommendation for people based on your scenario.
     
  6. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    Put another way:

    Creep Mode On
    If car is stopped and you press the accelerator, car won't move.

    Creep Mode Off
    If car is stopped and you press the accelerator, without looking at the dash, you cannot predict what will happen next. You could lunge forward at high speed, lunge backward at high speed, or not move.
     
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  7. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    If you are disoriented enough to not know what gear you are in or see the screen to find out, tap the gear stalk to put it in park. Then compose yourself and after a few moments decide whether you are capable of driving a motor vehicle at the time.

    If yes, proceed.

    If not, call 911 if you're not sure you're in a safe parking location. If you don't have access to a phone, turn on your flashers and wait for assistance.


    Claiming a feature is good because it is better for incapacitated drivers is a recipe for just saying we should have autonomous only.
     
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  8. newtman

    newtman Member

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    Wouldn't it be much safer just to assume your car is in drive? I was always taught to never use the pedals unless you intend for them to do something.
     
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  9. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    If you pass out/doze off, etc..
    Creep on - car continues to move and you crash
    Creep off - car remains stationary.
     
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  10. xkwizit

    xkwizit Member

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    I may be completely missing something but I am not able to see how creep on does anything in the scenario you explain. Per the User Manual, with Creep On, when you take your foot off the brake pedal, the vehicle slowly moves forward or reverse depending upon the gear that was already engaged. It doesn't stop the car or change the gear.
    In fact for the most part I find creep off safer like when waiting for a light to turn green at a hill or in general when the vehicle is in hold mode. With creep off it will not move till you press the accelerator.
     
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  11. DuplexDianne

    DuplexDianne Member

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    If you are at a red light (assume foot is on the brake? or does the regen stop you completely?) and you take your foot off the brake pedal and creep forward (creep is on, in this case), are you telling me that if you press the accelerator the car won't move? Am I missing something? Isn't that what you'd do when the light turns green?
     
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  12. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    yeah, this thread seems to have comments from folks who don't understand the car. The car does not go off or into Park just because your are in creep and you hit the brakes. Take your foot off the brakes, and the car creeps forward --- until you crash
     
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  13. erebay

    erebay Member

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    If there is a chance you may "doze off, pass out, seizure, brain fart moment" then you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

    Much safer than what creep may do.
     
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  14. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    Creep on constantly reminds you the accelerator is active.
    Creep off does not.

    First situation is by default safer because it prevents some dangerous situations that can occur with creep off.

    They dont occur with super human drives such as you around here, but other people like me who from time to time dont put into neutral befor disengagng the cluch, or want to put into park but move the stick a bit to litle and it does not engage, or they forget they already are in drive or ...

    All accdents happen by accident ...
     
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  15. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    So, for folks that are concerned about dozing, or are less than optimal drivers, you are suggesting it makes more sense for the car to move on its own (creep) instead of remaining stationary.
    What you really need is Autopilot 2.0
     
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  16. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    Creep is an indicator.
    There are laws demanding indicators for many less problematic aspects of the car, like indcators for lights etc.
    Expect creep to become a mandatory feature of EV.
     
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  17. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    Good point - there needs to be an alert if the car will move on its own (i.e. Creep). Maybe a warning light or less desireable, a warning noise. As to require a warning because a car is 'on' but not moving (no creep), well I disagree but maybe others want that also
     
  18. xkwizit

    xkwizit Member

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    @WarpedOne - put into neutral to disengage the clutch? What are you talking about?? In the last 25years I have not needed to put a car in neutral even with ICE cars. You either put it in Park or you are in drive. And if you can't remember you are in drive, creep mode will not come to your rescue. Other than Park mode, the car will roll either because you have creep on or you pressed the accelerator.
     
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  19. cantdecide

    cantdecide Member

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    If you know you aren't moving, then your panic should cause you do do nothing.
    If you are moving forward slowly, then your panic is likely to cause you to stomp on a pedal.
    Given this, in the above scenario, regardless of gear and whether you are moving... no creep is as safe or safer depending no the scenario.

    I will agree, however, that creep can be an indicator of whether you are in forward or reverse.

    However I would argue that having creep on is something that frequently "necessitates immediate action" and rushes the driver (e.g. I notice I'm moving) where as no-creep more often allows the driver to thing through their actions.
    Hence I actually believe no-creep is safer overall, particularly now that the Teslas have a decent hold mode that holds the car when you aren't using a pedal.
     
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  20. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    Creep is much more dangerous... let's look at the terribly more common situation:

    You are sitting at a light at a busy street and creep mode is on... What happens if your foot leaves the brake pedal for too long? You might die.
    With creep mode off when you stop, you stop. It's not complicated.
     
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