Electric car chargepoints to overtake fuel pumps

[Masklin]

Electric car chargepoints to overtake fuel pumps

Motoring group the RAC says the number may still be insufficient for growing demand.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[phil4]

No one will be happy. For some it'll be too slow, for some it'll not be where they are, for some it'll be waste of money. They literally will not be able to please anyone.

In my mind, it's all good. Even if they don't hit their target, and they don't manage to get them installed everywhere, something is better than nothing.

We also need to remember that almost everyone driving an ICE now has the wrong mindset about EV's. I've seen this time and time again... the "but there are no chargers near me" comment, which means they've completely forgotten and discounted the fact they can charge at home. The ICE mindset of having to go to a petrol station to fill up is all pervasive. And yes, I know many people can't charge at home, the ones I mention above are people that can.

 

[Jason71]

Electric car chargepoints to overtake fuel pumps

Motoring group the RAC says the number may still be insufficient for growing demand.

www.bbc.co.uk

fuel pump vs charger comparisons are meaningless and irrelevant.
I have no idea how many public chargers we need but comparing it to the number of petrol pumps will not help us get to that number

 

[NewbieT]

Glossy announcement without actually publishing/uploading the strategy. Let’s wait & see.

 

[Undecided_2]

It’s the mindset that needs changing as mentioned above. My brother instantly went on the negative when I told him I bought a Tesla. Range was one of them. When I pointed out that his yearly mileage is less than 20 miles a day why did he need more than 200 miles range in an EV! He couldn’t answer than said about travelling further. Which he does twice a year. So again, what’s the problem with ‘filling’ up twice to get there and all it adds is an extra 40mins - 60mins to your journey of 8 hours which he should be taking longer breaks anyway.

It will become a forced change of life style when IcE cars are no longer sold and fuel keeps increasing in cost due no new vehicles needing fossil products to drive them.

Those against changing or finding reasons to not change their lifestyle are usually the same people that say they care about the planet.

As always, there could be better ways to market EVs and the many benefits.

Perhaps the motoring organisations should do research on how many people could install chargers at home. Talk positively that what’s the problem with taking 30 mins to charge to get home. Rested is good for safety.

Push the news that daily mileage is no where near the limit/range of an EV.

Tell people that if they care about the air quality and the damage that fossil extraction does to the planet then get onboard with battery power as it’s happening anyway and stop complaining.

Ugh. I used to be similar - I was excited for others driving EVs - but two years ago my wife and I said that we need to change the way we do things. Would I have got an EV like a Zoe, I probably would have if that’s what I could afford and to be honest, it would be the logical choice for us. But we purchased a Y as it’s awesome.

 

[pgkevet]

Range does remain an issue if travelling and staying away a few days. There would have to be legislon that 50percent of all hotel and public parking bays had chargers by 2030 and 100 percent by 2040 to avoid problems as well as rapids at common places...every town and village having one or two minimum. The same legislation for any dedicated apartment carpark and on street parking.

 

[prabhu]

I blogged on this topic. These are "world-beating" figures that someone must've come up with after some wine. There are no binding targets, no commitment, so that may happen only due to market needs without the government. The SLA figure of 99% was picked out of thin air without explaining how the grid infrastructure, supply chain, hardware, and software would evolve to support this. There is no data strategy and modelling, so no one knows how many chargers are needed, where, with what power and what cost.

 

[GRiLLA]

Why does the AA and RAC always get quoted as if they are some true ambassadors for the motoring public, rather than people that run breakdown firms. Their comments are pointless.

 

[Undecided_2]

The same as a lot of people on YouTube claiming to be in the know.

I follow Fully Charged on YouTube for electric industry news. I learnt that 30% of Teslas profits came from their mega battery/energy implementations in 2020 and not cars. Their car reviews seem pretty fair as well and the one that Robert Llewellyn (Red Dwarf actor) did about his own M3 was interesting.

https://youtube.com/c/fullychargedshow

 

[WannabeOwner]

I think supply and demand will solve this. Seems to have worked OK in Norway - and when they started there was the Model-S (which was close to £100K back then) and a Leaf (V1 had a tiny range, and significant battery degradation)

Now (8 years-ish later) they have less than 5% new sales full-ICE. Fuel forecourts replacing pumps with chargers ... getting to the point where ICE drivers have range anxiety because they have to plan where they will be able to fill ... how ironic

Norway incentivised that for a number of reasons (plenty of hydro, but I suppose also a good use to which to put their sovereign wealth fund) by (I think) 0% VAT on BEVs

Now that there are loads of EV models I can't see it taking 8 years in other countries, so any forward-moving country that gets a wiggle on, to facilitate the transition, ought to get to 90+% new cars EV within 3 or 4 years. That will depend on battery, and thus EV, availability. UK facilitating this, ahead of our neighbours, would get us to front of the queue ... and the front of the climate change CO2 etc. reduction achievements ... I would have thought being able to Crow about the latter would be enough incentive for self-loving politicians.

Number of households in the UK with no off-road parking / charging capability (landlords helped to install chargers in communal car parks) might be a snag. 2022 law change now requires all new houses to have a charger fitted.

If your company doesn't offer salary sacrifice for EVs you could hassle them on that. That (and Company Car with its low benefit-in-Kind tax) is probably the best EV inducement that exists right now.

Range does remain an issue if travelling and staying away a few days.

I've not had a problem with that (travelling on business).

I've dangled a 13AMP extension lead out of a hotel window before now ... but mostly I don't rely on charging at hotel (even if available might be ICE'd, in use, broken, not reserved as promised), so I usually stop either before arriving at hotel or go out to charge after evening meal. I'm sat in the car for 20 minutes ... but I catch up on emails I would have to do in my hotel room, so not much of a hassle.

 

[pgkevet]

I think supply and demand will solve this. Seems to have worked OK in Norway - and when they started there was the Model-S (which was close to £100K back then) and a Leaf (V1 had a tiny range, and significant battery degradation)

Now (8 years-ish later) they have less than 5% new sales full-ICE. Fuel forecourts replacing pumps with chargers ... getting to the point where ICE drivers have range anxiety because they have to plan where they will be able to fill ... how ironic

Norway incentivised that for a number of reasons (plenty of hydro, but I suppose also a good use to which to put their sovereign wealth fund) by (I think) 0% VAT on BEVs

Now that there are loads of EV models I can't see it taking 8 years in other countries, so any forward-moving country that gets a wiggle on, to facilitate the transition, ought to get to 90+% new cars EV within 3 or 4 years. That will depend on battery, and thus EV, availability. UK facilitating this, ahead of our neighbours, would get us to front of the queue ... and the front of the climate change CO2 etc. reduction achievements ... I would have thought being able to Crow about the latter would be enough incentive for self-loving politicians.

Number of households in the UK with no off-road parking / charging capability (landlords helped to install chargers in communal car parks) might be a snag. 2022 law change now requires all new houses to have a charger fitted.

If your company doesn't offer salary sacrifice for EVs you could hassle them on that. That (and Company Car with its low benefit-in-Kind tax) is probably the best EV inducement that exists right now.



I've not had a problem with that (travelling on business).

I've dangled a 13AMP extension lead out of a hotel window before now ... but mostly I don't rely on charging at hotel (even if available might be ICE'd, in use, broken, not reserved as promised), so I usually stop either before arriving at hotel or go out to charge after evening meal. I'm sat in the car for 20 minutes ... but I catch up on emails I would have to do in my hotel room, so not much of a hassle.

That only applies if using major routes and short stays when the destination is quiet. I was thinking anbout cases such as Henley regatta, perhaps the Derby etc where there will be a huge influx of traffic for a few days with en route superchargers crowded and 20 to 40 or more from the end run with modest hopse needed for a few days from accommodation to venue in some temporary field

 

[Peteski]

It’s the mindset that needs changing as mentioned above. My brother instantly went on the negative when I told him I bought a Tesla. Range was one of them. When I pointed out that his yearly mileage is less than 20 miles a day why did he need more than 200 miles range in an EV! He couldn’t answer than said about travelling further. Which he does twice a year. So again, what’s the problem with ‘filling’ up twice to get there and all it adds is an extra 40mins - 60mins to your journey of 8 hours which he should be taking longer breaks anyway.

It will become a forced change of life style when IcE cars are no longer sold and fuel keeps increasing in cost due no new vehicles needing fossil products to drive them.

Those against changing or finding reasons to not change their lifestyle are usually the same people that say they care about the planet.

As always, there could be better ways to market EVs and the many benefits.

Perhaps the motoring organisations should do research on how many people could install chargers at home. Talk positively that what’s the problem with taking 30 mins to charge to get home. Rested is good for safety.

Push the news that daily mileage is no where near the limit/range of an EV.

Tell people that if they care about the air quality and the damage that fossil extraction does to the planet then get onboard with battery power as it’s happening anyway and stop complaining.

Ugh. I used to be similar - I was excited for others driving EVs - but two years ago my wife and I said that we need to change the way we do things. Would I have got an EV like a Zoe, I probably would have if that’s what I could afford and to be honest, it would be the logical choice for us. But we purchased a Y as it’s awesome.

Most people don't like change and will go out of their way to justify their unwillingness to change, even if they might actually be better off for it. You have to remember that a lot of people are also still fairly EV ignorant (often by choice), so they don't even realise what the real pros and cons are. They focus more on telling you why their ICE car is better than your EV, as if you've never owned an ICE car yourself! The classic "I can fill my car with petrol in a couple of minutes". Really? Wow! I didn't know that. That's amazing and now you've told me that I may need to reconsider.....

 

[WannabeOwner]

I was thinking about cases such as Henley regatta ...

Ah, good point. I know that in California there have been big queues for Supercharger at each end of public holidays.

I favour having chargers off-motorway so that holiday traffic - basically all going "one way" - can have the benefit of all the chargers, rather than only the half on their side of the Motorway ... a lot to be said for the up-and-over services at French Aires which share such resources for both carriageways.

Current solution would seem to be to charge before arrival, far enough away to avoid the crush, and rely on 200-ish miles of range until the weekend is done. Dunno if that is a practical solution though?

Different situation in USA where holiday trips are often drive-charge-drive-charge distance.

I liked the idea of the EVs fitted with lawn-mower range-extender generators, e.g. the i3-REX ... but they seem to have gone out of fashion / been discontinued.

they don't even realise what the real pros and cons are.

I've converted plenty by taking them for a ride, and letting them have a go ... Fart Mode usually clinches it But demand exceeds supply so I suppose the laggards can wait. The 2nd hand value for their ICE in a few years time will rub salt into the wound.

 

[Undecided_2]

Fart mode conversion! Lol.

 

[NewbieT]

Now uploaded: https://assets.publishing.service.g...-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-strategy.pdf

 

[NewbieT]

“Government will not be intervening in the destination charging sector” better start lobbying hotels ourselves then.

“Provide local authorities with grant funding through the On-Street Residential Chargepoint Scheme. The scheme has supported 2,038 chargepoints to date, with a further 4,539 planned for 2021-22.”
Ha ha. That will help.

“Consider amendments to the Transport Planning Practice Guidance (PPG) relating to chargepoints” good.

“Mandate that, from June 2022, private chargepoints sold in GB must be smart and meet minimum device-level requirements.”
TWC Gen 3 software update needed.

 

[NewbieT]

“Mandating a single payment metric so consumers can compare the price across different charging networks. p/kWh”
Ok

Overall not bad. Would be interested to know when Wales is going to get its act together.

 

[WannabeOwner]

“Mandating a single payment metric so consumers can compare the price across different charging networks. p/kWh”
Ok

Fingers crossed

My recollection is that Government mandated that New Stalls (and a short while thereafter all stalls, retrospectively) would have to allow "payment at the stall". So vendors put up a sticker with a QR code and details of how to download the APP (I'm sure I've paraphrased a bit ...). Pretty sure that was not why HMG intended

 

[Jason71]

It’s the mindset that needs changing as mentioned above. My brother instantly went on the negative when I told him I bought a Tesla. Range was one of them. When I pointed out that his yearly mileage is less than 20 miles a day why did he need more than 200 miles range in an EV! He couldn’t answer than said about travelling further. Which he does twice a year. So again, what’s the problem with ‘filling’ up twice to get there and all it adds is an extra 40mins - 60mins to your journey of 8 hours which he should be taking longer breaks anyway.

It will become a forced change of life style when IcE cars are no longer sold and fuel keeps increasing in cost due no new vehicles needing fossil products to drive them.

Those against changing or finding reasons to not change their lifestyle are usually the same people that say they care about the planet.

As always, there could be better ways to market EVs and the many benefits.

Perhaps the motoring organisations should do research on how many people could install chargers at home. Talk positively that what’s the problem with taking 30 mins to charge to get home. Rested is good for safety.

Push the news that daily mileage is no where near the limit/range of an EV.

Tell people that if they care about the air quality and the damage that fossil extraction does to the planet then get onboard with battery power as it’s happening anyway and stop complaining.

Ugh. I used to be similar - I was excited for others driving EVs - but two years ago my wife and I said that we need to change the way we do things. Would I have got an EV like a Zoe, I probably would have if that’s what I could afford and to be honest, it would be the logical choice for us. But we purchased a Y as it’s awesome.

My gambit here is yes a couple of times a year you will be slightly inconvenienced
BUT
365 days a year you will not have to de-ice, demist or get into a freezing cold or boiling hot car .
For me this is one of the best things about owning an EV and not one that gets talked about that much

 

[WannabeOwner]

My gambit here is yes a couple of times a year you will be slightly inconvenienced
BUT
365 days a year you will not have to de-ice, demist or get into a freezing cold or boiling hot car .

Nope, doesn't work, I've tried that.

Wifee: "I've got to charge for TWENTY MINUTES today"

Me: "Well, when you had ICE you had to fill up every week. Detour to filling station, smelly forecourt, stand-and-pump, and then queue-to-pay. That was 10 minutes a week which is 8 hours a year. Now you road-charge twice a month for 20 minutes, that too is 8 hours a year"

Wife: "THAT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT"

... OK ... I skipped the bit about "Why don't you do some emails instead of doing them when you get home. Time-neutral then" as I figured I was on a slippery slope ...