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Electric Vehicles Out in the Cold

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by jefflieb, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. jefflieb

    jefflieb Member

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  2. GDH

    GDH Banned

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    Snowmobile suits lol
     
  3. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Fair article, but I think his last point is the best:

    That's all we need!

    I don't expect Tesla to cover the whole globe with SuperChargers, but 50kW CHAdeMO will do just fine (with the adapter). Sometimes all you need is just 10kWh extra which is just 10 minutes on a CHAdeMO charger.
     
  4. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    Given their continued long-term success... I do, actually.
     
  5. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    I'm still of the opinion that Tesla should offer a small diesel or gasoline fueled heater integrated into the car's coolant system for battery and cabin heating. The amount of space for the heater and fuel would be very small, a 2 or 3 gallon tank would be plenty, and it would almost completely solve the heating loss of range in cold weather. If it were set up to cycle automatically, it could even do things like prevent battery heating losses and pre-heating the car while parked at an airport in cold weather. From an efficiency standpoint it should be far better than using the battery for heat.

    Espar coolant heater
     
  6. Mario Kadastik

    Mario Kadastik Active Member

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    Nop. I want a full EV and you can get past most of the cold time warming issues by timing the charging right (which isn't that hard). Yeah, range will be impacted, but I'd prefer to have 100% EV with no exhausts at all, this way I benefit from all the things that the government throws at EV's and that require it to be 100% EV.
     
  7. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    If you can somehow get your hands on, and make due with a Volvo C30 Electric, then that car seems ideal for you :wink:

     
  8. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    Not quite so small or simple.

    You need tank, engine/generator, exhaust system plus pollution control, new safety tests, and a path to route the exhaust.
     
  9. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    What would you need an engine or generator for? We're talking about a heater.

    This is a very small device, less than a cubic foot which burns about 1/6 gal/hr so, as noted, a 2 or 3 gallon tank would be plenty. The exhaust is relatively cool, around 150 F and would be only a couple of inches in diameter. The heaters are already CARB compliant as they are in common use in trucks, airplanes and boats. Based on how DOT regulates much larger auxiliary fuel tanks for pickups, I doubt there would be any requirement for new crash tests etc., especially if it burned diesel fuel.

    Diesel would likely be the fuel of choice since it doesn't degrade over time the way gasoline does and evaporates much more slowly. Alcohol is an interesting idea, but methanol has about 2/3 the energy density of diesel and ethanol less than half, so either would require a somewhat larger tank. I'd think the biggest issue would be that neither is readily available on the road which is where you'd need it, so I still think diesel would be the best choice.

    I'm surprised that Estonia would prohibit auxiliary heaters in electric vehicles, the US EPA doesn't AFAIK, they even give the full credit to the BMW i3 with a range extender motor/generator. Are other things like the use of windshield anti-freeze fluid containing ethylene glycol or isopropyl alcohol in electric vehicles prohibited as well? Those are petroleum products and just evaporate into the air, they're not even broken down by combustion. Anyway, if you don't want one, don't order it.
     
  10. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    I'm with others, I don't want a gas powered anything in my car. I'm happy with how my Model S handles the cold temperatures (been averaging 15-22F during the day for the last couple of weeks). I preheat my cabin on shore power before I leave home, and preheat without shore power when away.
     
  11. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

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  12. AMN

    AMN Member

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    Good article. Snowmobile suit? Hehe. No, thank you!

    It's a matter of time before electricity is even more abundant (both in terms of charging infrastructure and sustainable production) and batteries are more potent. While I do see 30-40% bump in energy consumption in brutal Minnesota winter (probably the absolute worst environment for this car), I am with Tesla on their 100% electric approach to operating all onboard systems. I love their corporate mission - it's bald, disrupting, and inspiring at the same time. No need to add complexity to otherwise perfect, simple powerplant. Simple is always better. Instead, they should focus on batteries.

    I came across an article a few months ago saying that Panasonic already developed 4000mAh 18650 Li-ion cells (Model S's 18650 cells are 3100mAh). Not sure if Tesla's recently renewed contract includes these new cells but I am sure it's just a matter of time before we get there. 25% bump in range, anyone? Model X with 100kWh battery to make sure additional weight still allows you to go between superchargers even in the frozen tundra of Minnesota and Northern Sweden? Exciting times! ;)
     
  13. hughconn

    hughconn Member

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    Loving my new S85. It's been in the 20s for the last two weeks since I got it. I'm tracking my battery/driving efficiency and was routinely getting 73% efficiency, meaning I could actually drive only 73% of the range miles suggested. I'm monitoring highway, city and combination styles of driving in various temperature ranges. Highway with cruise control was best efficiency but still only in the low 90% level. However, today it is in the 50s and I'm now getting 100% actual miles to range miles! What a difference the temperature makes. Any computer geeks out there who could turn my tracking spreadsheet into an iPhone app, PM me.
     

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