For local daily charging, cost matters. Do it at home. For long distance, I think gasoline equivalent pricing is fair. To be equal to $3/gal @ 20mpg ($0.15/mi) you can charge $0.45/kWh assuming 3mi/kWh driving efficiency. Model 3 is much more efficient than that, but the upcoming cars from Jag, Audi, Merc are all going to be around there. So, when the charger is charging by the minute, charging speed matters. In order to hit $0.45/kWh you have to take 25.55kWh or more in 30 minutes from their $11.50 fee ($1 + $0.35/min * 30 min). That means your average charge rate has to be 51.11kW over those 30 minutes. With a 350-400V battery pack, that means that your car has to draw about 140 amps without tapering during those 30 minutes. So, even today, a Bolt EV (150A max) can charge from these chargers at less than gasoline equivalent prices. Of course, you have to keep the battery in the bottom half of the SOC, but it should be able to take more than 25kWh without tapering, if you play your cards right. Of course, cars like the Audi e-Tron should charge much faster than the Bolt EV.
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Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?
- Thread starter minderbinder
- Start date
So only double the cost for a slower charge that probably isn't even conveniently located. I guess that's a positive...?
And why would you compare a Bolt to a 20MPG vehicle - let alone your overestimation of Colorado gas price? My pickup gets much better mileage than that.
And why would you compare a Bolt to a 20MPG vehicle - let alone your overestimation of Colorado gas price? My pickup gets much better mileage than that.
I have had my Model 3 for 6 months and I've only used 4 different Supercharger sites. Does that mean that the rest of them are not conveniently located? Not at all. The fact that EA is building a network that allows all the non-Tesla EVs to drive between major cities and cross the country is actually a great thing, in spite of the slightly elevated pricing and imperfect site choices.
The last gas car I owned got 20mpg combined, so I thought it was entirely reasonable. Also, where I live, the budget brand Premium gas is $3.99/gal so I thought $3/gal was reasonable too.
My main point was that when you only have electric vehicles and you mostly charge at home for $0.04/mile it's reasonable to pay $0.15/mile on the occasional road trip instead of renting or borrowing a car and paying for gas on top of that.
I mean, who cares what your last car got, mileage wise? My pickup truck gets more than 20MPG, and it's hilarious you need to choose those numbers to make it look halfway palatable.
And sure, handwave away the fact that 8 EA chargers are actually 4 chargers, whereas 10 Supercharger locations are actually 10.
And just lol at the notion that "it's not actually expensive because you won't want to use it", as if you can't also charge a Tesla at home and take advantage of its better, cheaper network when you need to, too.
And sure, handwave away the fact that 8 EA chargers are actually 4 chargers, whereas 10 Supercharger locations are actually 10.
And just lol at the notion that "it's not actually expensive because you won't want to use it", as if you can't also charge a Tesla at home and take advantage of its better, cheaper network when you need to, too.
The bottom line is that Tesla owners need not care about these. They're not for you anyway. As an owner that has a Tesla and a non-Tesla EV, I can see the value in what they're building. Is it ideal? No. Is it better than the big fat nothing that exists for DCFC in most of the country? Clearly, yes. Even better, it's not obsolete the day it's installed like the single 50kW chargers that the State of California funded in 2015 that are just being installed today.
I literally just said that the reason I bought a Tesla was due to EA's laughable attempt. It was "for me" until it wasn't. As a 2x Leaf owner and a Volt owner, I see no value in the EA network.
If it's not reliable and affordable, it's not better than nothing, it sets us back.
If it's not reliable and affordable, it's not better than nothing, it sets us back.
The bottom line for me, regarding this EA weirdness, is that Tesla should make Supercharger to CCS/Chademo adapters. They should charge quite a high fee for use. This would, "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport," or whatever Elon says, and make Superchargers $$, that would allow the expansion of the network.
There could be restrictions so as not to discourage Tesla owners, such as only vehicles that can take 50kw, no off-brands when the station is 75% occupied....just suggestions.
I feel this move would solidify the Tesla "nozzle" as the de facto standard plug, a great bonus. Other brands would look foolish telling buyers to go buy an adapter from Tesla, instead of the car just having that charge port. The buyers may just buy a Tesla instead!
There could be restrictions so as not to discourage Tesla owners, such as only vehicles that can take 50kw, no off-brands when the station is 75% occupied....just suggestions.
I feel this move would solidify the Tesla "nozzle" as the de facto standard plug, a great bonus. Other brands would look foolish telling buyers to go buy an adapter from Tesla, instead of the car just having that charge port. The buyers may just buy a Tesla instead!
No way! There's a reason I spent $44k on a car instead of $17k on a new Leaf - because I wanted the only EV that can reliably and somewhat conveniently go anywhere. Allowing laggard manufacturers to play for free makes no sense, Tesla can't be expected to singlehandedly built out American EV infrastructure.
I am so. Damn. Done. With waiting for the only CHAdeMO available, having people yell at me when we pull into a spot at the same time, etc.
I am so. Damn. Done. With waiting for the only CHAdeMO available, having people yell at me when we pull into a spot at the same time, etc.
rhumbliner
Member
Bad idea. That would only serve to perpetuate the CHAdeMO/CCS nonsense. Tesla has the right idea of extending the olive branch and encouraging auto manufacturers to adopt the Tesla standard by allowing their customers use of the SuperCharger network — at a price that would allow Tesla to build out the network at a faster pace.
I realize the SC‘s are over crowded at many locations now, but the cash infusion would go a long way to alleviate that.
One my concerns is the over crowding at charging stations that is clearly going to start happening. I recently did a 1000 mile trip from Denver to Chicago and hit up about 10 SuperChargers. I did not have to split power at any station, but there was 1 where it was close. This is just going to get worse and worse and I wonder what the heck will happen?
I've seen on the Model 3 forums the folks in CA are seemingly using Superchargers as their 'everyday' charger and NOT charging at home. I would think that there needs to be some kind of priority of folks that are traveling vs. local's who don't charge at home. Tesla is going to have to figure out something, because that nightmare of cross country travel with full Superchargers and increased wait times is going to lead to a horrible customer experience.
My family and I are planning another road trip and I'm concerned about the additional charge time as-is, and will be very upset if I run into crowded Superchargers with locals...
I've seen on the Model 3 forums the folks in CA are seemingly using Superchargers as their 'everyday' charger and NOT charging at home. I would think that there needs to be some kind of priority of folks that are traveling vs. local's who don't charge at home. Tesla is going to have to figure out something, because that nightmare of cross country travel with full Superchargers and increased wait times is going to lead to a horrible customer experience.
My family and I are planning another road trip and I'm concerned about the additional charge time as-is, and will be very upset if I run into crowded Superchargers with locals...
You're not wrong, but here's how I see it:
-3 owners will eventually wake up to the fact that home charging is way less expensive than SCing.
-Crowded city chargers are a matter of convenience mostly - worst case, plug into a Level 2 somewhere and have an extended dinner. Otoh, not having a charger in Lander, WY when needed could actually be dangerous, but these rural chargers don't seem to be overloaded.
-If charging a 3 at an SC is the only way for you to own an EV as an apartment dweller, I'm ok with that if you aren't an ass. More Teslas on the road = more time until climate doom.
That's the thing. If Tesla continues to expand and keeps their Supercharging policies the way they are, they'll eventually force the market into line - manufacturers who want to sell cars will have to offer cars that are actually competitive with Teslas, and they will have to ensure they have an equivalent to the Supercharger network available, in both price and availability, which will probably mean subsidizing the network pricing/expansion if they don't join Tesla.
You have to sell massive amounts of power even at those kinds of markups to pay for the cost of the installation. Tesla writes it off as a marketing expense as I understand it (seems reasonable; I wouldn't have bought the car without it just like the poster quoted.)
I think you mean 7-8 CCS, on CHAdeMO. Half of those CCS connectors are non functional.
The way Superchargers, AeroVironment, EVgo, aka everyone who's been doing this before Ze Germans showed up works: ten SC stalls means ten cars can charge. 4 CHAdeMO stalls means 4 cars can charge.
I'm not about to get on the EA train of "well we have ten CCS connectors but half of them aren't useful".
Also just LOL at the 247 minutes remaining on your damn-near-a-buck kWh charge. What a failure of a network.
The way Superchargers, AeroVironment, EVgo, aka everyone who's been doing this before Ze Germans showed up works: ten SC stalls means ten cars can charge. 4 CHAdeMO stalls means 4 cars can charge.
I'm not about to get on the EA train of "well we have ten CCS connectors but half of them aren't useful".
Also just LOL at the 247 minutes remaining on your damn-near-a-buck kWh charge. What a failure of a network.
Hopefully you didn't need to stay until 85% charged and pay $90!
"EA isn't set up for failure", they said. "EA isn't a spook meant to make people think EVs suck and are expensive to charge", they said.
I actually have no problems with EA's pricing. It is on the expensive side for sure, but it ensures only people that NEED to charge actually charge. So I likely won't have to worry about some cheap ass hogging the EA stations and preventing me from using them.
Compare that to Tesla's (mostly) free Supercharging setup and what can happen. Yikes! #SayNoToFreeCharging
jayden on Twitter
Hopefully you didn't need to stay until 85% charged and pay $90!
I like how they have an idle fee too. Literally, people should only be charging as long as they need to (and will move their cars out of the spots once they're done). Well, unless they love throwing away money that is. I suppose it's possible people could come out and unplug their car, then just leave their car blocking the spot, but if you figure they are gonna come out, they'll also make the effort to move their cars.
My credit card alert:
“As you requested, we are notifying you of any charges over the amount of ($USD) 1.00, as specified in your Alert settings. A charge of ($USD) 50.00 at 1-833-632-2778 EL... has been authorized on 11/01/2018 11:17:55 PM EDT.”
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