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Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

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These EA charging rates are criminal. VW should be ashamed, but we all know VW corporate has had a criminal side to it, so I guess they're just being consistent...

Would be nice if this got more negative publicity. This is the first time I'm hearing about these rates, and I consider myself one who keeps up with the news, especially EVs.

Any journalists out there want to make a story on this?
 
I actually have no problems with EA's pricing. It is on the expensive side for sure, but it ensures only people that NEED to charge actually charge. So I likely won't have to worry about some cheap ass hogging the EA stations and preventing me from using them.
Compare that to Tesla's (mostly) free Supercharging setup and what can happen. Yikes! #SayNoToFreeCharging
jayden on Twitter

This is exactly what is going to continue to happen with Superchargers. OMG, I can't even believe this, but I'm not at all surprised. We are not allowed to have good things anymore as there is no civility remaining with the human race.

Tesla is going to have to address these issues and come up with some sort of process that is similar to say a deli counter. You get some sort of virtual number and when the next stall opens, you get an alert that stall #1a is now open for you. Tesla can than weigh the line based on different factors to try and make it fair. Something will have to be done and done quickly to begin addressing these acts of hostility.

Question: when a Tesla Supercharger is located in the parking lot of say a HyVee; how is liable if someone gets hurt, etc? If we use that post above on Twitter, if those guys got into an altercation and someone sued... what happens? If these kinds of incidents continue to increase, why would any chains want to have Superchargers on their property?
 
These EA charging rates are criminal. VW should be ashamed, but we all know VW corporate has had a criminal side to it, so I guess they're just being consistent...

Would be nice if this got more negative publicity. This is the first time I'm hearing about these rates, and I consider myself one who keeps up with the news, especially EVs.

Any journalists out there want to make a story on this?

The only thing I don't like is the $1 connection fee. Like what happens if you connect, then some error happens, and you end up getting charged another connection fee? That seems very draconian.
Otherwise, I have 0 issues with the pricing scheme. The rates ensure only people that need to charge charge (and also gives VW/EA a helluva incentive to quickly repair stations that are down). What's worse than expensive charging stations? Charging stations being blocked by freeloading cheapskates!
 
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The only thing I don't like is the $1 connection fee. Like what happens if you connect, then some error happens, and you end up getting charged another connection fee? That seems very draconian.
Otherwise, I have 0 issues with the pricing scheme. The rates ensure only people that need to charge charge (and also gives VW/EA a helluva incentive to quickly repair stations that are down). What's worse than expensive charging stations? Charging stations being blocked by freeloading cheapskates!

There are plenty of expensive networks that don't fix their *sugar*. SemaConnect is crazy expensive, but most of the ones at Walgreen's locations are broken. EVgo is expensive, and they're somewhat reliable but left me stranded before. Blink is massively expensive and horribly unreliable.

Excessive rates slow the adoption of EVs. Avoiding climate doom is more important than an occasional charger queue.
 
Otherwise, I have 0 issues with the pricing scheme...

You are a minority of 1 here bro. As a general rule, people will bend over backwards to save a nickel. Just look at all the people who hang out at free L2 chargers for hours instead of paying $0.12 per kilowatt for power.

The comment above about Tesla at some point providing a Tesla to CCS connector to enable "non-proprietary" EVs to use Superchargers will be the death knell for the EA network. The Tesla network will be 50x bigger than the EA network, and Tesla could sell juice at 1/2 the price of EA and make out like a bandit. Its a win-win-win for everyone except the EA network, which will end up unused.

If you don't think that Tesla has thought of this, you are living in a dream world.

RT
 
One my concerns is the over crowding at charging stations that is clearly going to start happening. I recently did a 1000 mile trip from Denver to Chicago and hit up about 10 SuperChargers. I did not have to split power at any station, but there was 1 where it was close. This is just going to get worse and worse and I wonder what the heck will happen?

I've seen on the Model 3 forums the folks in CA are seemingly using Superchargers as their 'everyday' charger and NOT charging at home. I would think that there needs to be some kind of priority of folks that are traveling vs. local's who don't charge at home. Tesla is going to have to figure out something, because that nightmare of cross country travel with full Superchargers and increased wait times is going to lead to a horrible customer experience.

My family and I are planning another road trip and I'm concerned about the additional charge time as-is, and will be very upset if I run into crowded Superchargers with locals...

EV is still early adopter. Perhaps you went EV too soon.

A few spots in the world have crowded superchargers at time. A few spots, like San Diego, were oddly lacking in superchargers. But the middle of the country in general, and Chicago in particular, has few if any issues. It seems to me that a lot of Model 3s can be added to the midwest.
 
You are a minority of 1 here bro. As a general rule, people will bend over backwards to save a nickel. Just look at all the people who hang out at free L2 chargers for hours instead of paying $0.12 per kilowatt for power.

The comment above about Tesla at some point providing a Tesla to CCS connector to enable "non-proprietary" EVs to use Superchargers will be the death knell for the EA network. The Tesla network will be 50x bigger than the EA network, and Tesla could sell juice at 1/2 the price of EA and make out like a bandit. Its a win-win-win for everyone except the EA network, which will end up unused.

If you don't think that Tesla has thought of this, you are living in a dream world.

RT

I have a feeling we will be a very, very long time before Elon decides to open up the Superchargers to non-Teslas.
 
I have a feeling we will be a very, very long time before Elon decides to open up the Superchargers to non-Teslas.
From the Tesla Q3 2018 Earnings Conference Call Transcript

Elon: So, I do encourage our competitors to really make a huge investment and we've been saying that for a long time. And then -- their only aim is competitive disadvantage because they didn't -- we try to help them as much as we could and they didn't want to take our help, so they can use a lot of patents for free and we're happy they can use our Supercharger network if they can just have an adapter for our connector or something. We want to be as helpful as possible to the rest of the industry, but the fact of the matter is we made the investment in the Gigafactory and other companies didn't. And we put a lot of effort into having extremely efficient cars over having -- having most efficient powertrains and the other companies didn't, but I'm sure they will have a time, but that's what us put us in quite a strong competitive position right now.
 
From the Tesla Q3 2018 Earnings Conference Call Transcript

Elon: So, I do encourage our competitors to really make a huge investment and we've been saying that for a long time. And then -- their only aim is competitive disadvantage because they didn't -- we try to help them as much as we could and they didn't want to take our help, so they can use a lot of patents for free and we're happy they can use our Supercharger network if they can just have an adapter for our connector or something. We want to be as helpful as possible to the rest of the industry, but the fact of the matter is we made the investment in the Gigafactory and other companies didn't. And we put a lot of effort into having extremely efficient cars over having -- having most efficient powertrains and the other companies didn't, but I'm sure they will have a time, but that's what us put us in quite a strong competitive position right now.

I have a feeling if I built an adapter and then asked Elon "Hey, how much to be able to Supercharge??" it would fall on deaf ears.
And I'm actually surprised he's suggesting other manufacturers need to make an adapter. Seems like a way to make a nice little profit if Tesla made the adapter and sold it exclusively to interested parties.
If Tesla offered a Tesla-to-CCS Supercharging adapter for say $1,000 + charging fees, I'd strongly consider buying one. But I'm not holding my breath.
 
Their pricing is ridiculous: Pricing | Electrify America

$0.30 - $0.35 per minute for up to 50kW charging (using CHAdeMO). So to get 50kWh (a normal charge for me when travelling) I’d have to charge for 1 hour at a cost of at least $19. Too slow. Too expensive. I have to wonder if their goal isn’t to discourage EV use.
Since VW doesn’t really sell an EV that can charge at 150 KW rates, let alone 350, I would say, yes absolutely that’s their goal. They’re being forced to build out the charging network way before they have EVs to sell. They certainly don’t want people to buy a non-VW, and by definition almost everyone using these stations today is driving a non-VW (e-golf is selling less than 100-200/mo).
 
Since VW doesn’t really sell an EV that can charge at 150 KW rates, let alone 350, I would say, yes absolutely that’s their goal. They’re being forced to build out the charging network way before they have EVs to sell. They certainly don’t want people to buy a non-VW, and by definition almost everyone using these stations today is driving a non-VW (e-golf is selling less than 100-200/mo).
2015 and 2016 e-Golf cars also probably don't have the range to make it between most of their stations. To add insult to injury, they only charge at up to 32-44kW due to low design battery voltage.

These stations are meant for the next generation of EVs like the e-Tron, Taycan, EQ-C and iPace that have larger batteries and can take higher power through CCS. It is pretty important to the VW Group that the Audi e-Tron and Porsche Taycan has a usable charging network when those cars are available.
 
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The _-____ (I cannot repeat the name in polite company) looks ugly according to some pictures, but the manufacturer's link redirects me to look at ICE vehicles instead. I will have to remind myself that other manufactuerers are more serious about making EV's than the one in question.
WOW This is crappy for future VW/Audi/Porsche EV buyers....really unfortunate. I'll 2nd the notion of Tesla selling CCS & CHAdeMO adapters. Undercut EA rates AND use the revenue to build out more charger and bring back free supercharging for new Teslas. Would be a win/win PR campaign!
Will VW cars get special rates, such as many Chademo and CCS cars in the past have that could sign up to deeply discounted rates for the first x months of ownership? Furthermore, is VW going to offer better rates for people who use their stations frequently, such as EVgo did with a monthly discount plan (in which I paid half the regular EVgo price, making it competitive with my home charging depending on conditions)? (EVgo has since changed their rates.)
The only thing I don't like is the $1 connection fee. Like what happens if you connect, then some error happens, and you end up getting charged another connection fee? That seems very draconian
I'd never pay for that; I'd spend the 45 minutes on the phone with their Customer Support necessary to refund the $1 fee, because of their charger error, and encourage others to do the same in the same situation with post-it-notes on the pedestals and posts on forums. That way, the company would see it as a loss, and nix the $1 fee for errors. It might take them 6 months to realize it, but it would happen. But then, I'm not using their network, so who knows if anyone else will go through the trouble to stick it to them. The alternative is that they see it as a profit center and rack up an additional $500/year of reconnect fees per frequent user and waste days of those users' time reconnecting, and even doubling the DC charge battery disablement counter inside Teslas.
There are plenty of expensive networks that don't fix their *sugar*. SemaConnect is crazy expensive, but most of the ones at Walgreen's locations are broken. EVgo is expensive, and they're somewhat reliable but left me stranded before. Blink is massively expensive and horribly unreliable.
I had the same experience. I almost bricked my car on the first weekend I owned it due to EVgo not working. I since learned never to put myself in that situation again (always have a backup). I also since learned that retrying to connect with EVGO up to about 40 to 60 times can be the difference between failure and success. (EVgo monthly account, Chademo adapter, Tesla Model S.) Also, calling in every single charger that didn't work helped get them to repair them more often; I did this pretty religiously, and I saw pretty obvious results that they did get the ones I reported repaired better than the ones I did not report (although I measured across months; making notes on Plugshare was extremely helpful whenever I did this for record keeping). Also, calling them up when I couldn't figure out how to get it working did help, since they could explain more details of the connection, and help me with the restarts. But calling EVgo customer service required herculean amounts of patience; sometimes hold times were very excessive, and the slow scripts you had to endure with them were present. After all this, I got good at planning for EVgo stations, and my success rate went up high enough that I rarely ran into trouble. But I was always just one station failure away from having to turn back to the prior EVgo or a SuperCharger in the wrong direction after which having to then further detour to a second SuperCharger, which did happen about twice in the six months I was using Chademo. Since then, Tesla has expanded their SuperCharger network to the point where I would not need to use Chademo any more if I still had a Tesla.
 
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Porsche has stated that their charging network would be priced to make running a Taycan cost the same as if it had a diesel engine, which with a few reasonable assumptions I had recently estimated for Ionity in Europe at around $0.78/kWh, i.e. within one cent of that seen here from EA.

I strongly suspect that such a punitive pricing strategery from VW et al in North America and Europe, while at first blush appearing ludicrously uncompetitive, is in fact extremely realistic, as they practically must rely on it to slow-roll the uptake of their BEV offerings, in order to not all too severely cannibalise vital ICE sales during the next 20 years of gradual changeover.

Fully agree therefore that Tesla should seize the initiative here to sell its own CCS-SuC adapter, charge ~$0.40/kWh for its use and snag a lot of that upcoming business to finance rapidly building out its own beefed-up V3.SuC network with each stall delivering full rated power even if all are occupied.

Easy as stealing candy from the world's most horrible baby!