Electrify Everything

[nwdiver]

Putting an explosive gas inside the house made the house explode? 'weird'...

 

[mspohr]

Imbalance Can Help Balance Greener Grids

Smarter algorithms turn renewables’ intermittency into an asset

spectrum.ieee.org

The erratic nature of solar and wind power often raises fears they may destabilize power grids. Now a new study finds that accounting for power-flow imbalances can reveal better ways to incorporate renewable energy into grids.
One often overlooked problem in fitting renewable energy into existing grids involves the presumption of balanced power flow. So in the new study, researchers developed an algorithm to find the best ways to incorporate solar and wind into power grids that also took all imbalanced power flows in the system into account. The new algorithm also factored in devices typically used to store energy from renewable power, such as batteries and heat pumps.

The researchers suggested it was more efficient to use renewable energy locally near where it was generated, instead of exporting it across the grid. However, Short says, “If the users have high enough load, which is becoming the case with EVs, heat pumps, and so on, then we can use batteries locally to support demand response and even export electricity locally to make up for times in which demand is high.” In addition, Short says, “Local electricity generation paired with electrified heating seemed to be economically preferred to using battery storage.” He adds, however, that as battery and heat-pump technologies progress, these assumptions may need to be reconsidered.

 

[SageBrush]

“Local electricity generation paired with electrified heating seemed to be economically preferred to using battery storage.”

I'm having a 'no sh1t, Sherlock' moment, although that is going to be modified as EVs take on v2h duties

 

[nwdiver]

Reason number 3,757 to stop burning stuff in the buildings where we sleep...

CO linked to 19 deaths in Airbnb rentals.

 

[mspohr]

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/12/02/1216263306/why-solar-powered-canoes-could-be-good-for-the-future-of-the-rainforest

In an effort to minimize that destruction, Kara Solar is investing in what it describes as the "ancestral highways" of the rainforest: rivers. By pairing nature's pre-built infrastructure with solar energy, it believes the livelihoods of communities across the Amazon can be greatly improved with minimal environmental impact.

The boats, inspired by traditional Indigenous designs, vary in size and can carry up to 20 passengers. With electric motors and roofs covered in solar panels, they can travel at 10 to 12 miles an hour for up to 60 miles. Each cost between $25,000 and $40,000, most of which was provided by U.S.-based foundations such as the Inter-American Development Bank. Kara Solar says that with technological advances, prices are coming down. "We want to show that another way is possible," says founder Oliver Utne. He arrived in Ecuador from the United States in 2007 and came up with the idea for solar-powered boats after witnessing the deforestation caused by road construction in the Achuar's territory.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/12/02/1216263306/why-solar-powered-canoes-could-be-good-for-the-future-of-the-rainforest

In an effort to minimize that destruction, Kara Solar is investing in what it describes as the "ancestral highways" of the rainforest: rivers. By pairing nature's pre-built infrastructure with solar energy, it believes the livelihoods of communities across the Amazon can be greatly improved with minimal environmental impact.

The boats, inspired by traditional Indigenous designs, vary in size and can carry up to 20 passengers. With electric motors and roofs covered in solar panels, they can travel at 10 to 12 miles an hour for up to 60 miles. Each cost between $25,000 and $40,000, most of which was provided by U.S.-based foundations such as the Inter-American Development Bank. Kara Solar says that with technological advances, prices are coming down. "We want to show that another way is possible," says founder Oliver Utne. He arrived in Ecuador from the United States in 2007 and came up with the idea for solar-powered boats after witnessing the deforestation caused by road construction in the Achuar's territory.

I was thinking trees would obstruct, but I suppose in a tropical rainforest the sun's quite high in the sky.

 

[mspohr]

I was thinking trees would obstruct, but I suppose in a tropical rainforest the sun's quite high in the sky.

They said they will be switching away from solar on the boats to battery swap. They also have solar charging stations.

 

[mspohr]

Yes, it’s possible to electrify a home on just 100 amps

It may require careful planning and efficient appliances like heat pumps, but 100-amp service can be enough to kick fossil fuels out of your home.

www.canarymedia.com

But a growing number of experts are encouraging homeowners and electricians to question the assumption that homes with less than 200 amps need electrical-service upgrades in order to fully electrify. Indeed, California utilities Pacific Gas & Electric, Sacramento Municipal Utility District and Peninsula Clean Energy have found that required service upgrades are often the exception, rather than the rule.

 

[nwdiver]

Yes, it’s possible to electrify a home on just 100 amps

It may require careful planning and efficient appliances like heat pumps, but 100-amp service can be enough to kick fossil fuels out of your home.

www.canarymedia.com

But a growing number of experts are encouraging homeowners and electricians to question the assumption that homes with less than 200 amps need electrical-service upgrades in order to fully electrify. Indeed, California utilities Pacific Gas & Electric, Sacramento Municipal Utility District and Peninsula Clean Energy have found that required service upgrades are often the exception, rather than the rule.

The off-grid kit I've been playing with to run my house is only 4.4kW (~18A). Does fine. It's the big resistive loads that really cause problems. Swap those for heat pumps and you're set

 

[David_Cary]

The cars cause a pretty big problem at 100A. Heat pumps still need strips. At some point, it is challenging to have a dryer, backup heat strips and 2 car charging plugs on a 100A. Not to mention the solar takes up some room.
Do you really need to charge the car, run the dryer on a super cold morning (while taking 3 showers)? Not at all but having a bunch of switches all over the house to make sure that doesn't happen is a lot more challenging than just upgrading the service.
We have 200A service and it works but we are a bit loaded with a new house.
- 4.5 kw dryer
- 5 kw heat strips X 2 floors (with the right stat I am down to less than 1 hour per year)
- 10 kw EV x 2
- 4.5 kw? backup strips to HPHW (Not sure these have ever kicked in)
- 13 kw solar
Potential 10 kw range (we have NG)

 

[mspohr]

The cars cause a pretty big problem at 100A. Heat pumps still need strips. At some point, it is challenging to have a dryer, backup heat strips and 2 car charging plugs on a 100A. Not to mention the solar takes up some room.
Do you really need to charge the car, run the dryer on a super cold morning (while taking 3 showers)? Not at all but having a bunch of switches all over the house to make sure that doesn't happen is a lot more challenging than just upgrading the service.
We have 200A service and it works but we are a bit loaded with a new house.
- 4.5 kw dryer
- 5 kw heat strips X 2 floors (with the right stat I am down to less than 1 hour per year)
- 10 kw EV x 2
- 4.5 kw? backup strips to HPHW (Not sure these have ever kicked in)
- 13 kw solar
Potential 10 kw range (we have NG)

We built a new house. All electric. Heat pump hot water and hydronic floor heating. Draws a maximum of 2200 W. Heat pump dryer draws 800 W. Induction range burners maximum 2000 W. Oven 2500 W. LED lighting basically nothing. We run out Tesla charger at 32 amps, 7 kW.
No electric resistance heating.
Could easily run the whole house on 100 amps. Everything running at once less than 100 a.
TFA has a good table which shows how easy it is to run a house on 100 a service using efficient appliances.

 

[UkNorthampton]

We built a new house. All electric. Heat pump hot water and hydronic floor heating. Draws a maximum of 2200 W. Heat pump dryer draws 800 W. Induction range burners maximum 2000 W. Oven 2500 W. LED lighting basically nothing. We run out Tesla charger at 32 amps, 7 kW.
No electric resistance heating.
Could easily run the whole house on 100 amps. Everything running at once less than 100 a.
TFA has a good table which shows how easy it is to run a house on 100 a service using efficient appliances.

Different country (UK), but in our house we have 80 amps at 240 (ish) volts on single phase (some of Rest of Europe have 3 phase 240 volt to homes). Some UK houses have 60 amps, others 100 amps - it varies. Some even have looped supplies (one cable shared by multiple houses, free to have fixed - https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads-view-reciteme/430885 ).

What we do is put a CT clamp on. It measures the current and if greater than something like 60% of the max amps is being used by kitchen, showers, lawnmowers etc, it tells charger to use less power or switch off. After the house's current usage goes down, it increases power to the charger/EVSE.

We can get close to 80 amps with all the cookers, hobs, kitchen appliances and power shower on. Not normally a problem except during festive cooking times.

According to following link, the CT can vary some EVSE chargers, not binary on/off - so it must be communicating with EVSE, not just cutting power.

Pod Point Solo EV Charger | Green Electrical EV

The Pod Point Solo Smart Electric vehicle charger is OLEV grant eligible for home and workplace charging scheme. The intelligent way to charger your EV!

www.greenelectrical-ev.co.uk

Do you have this in USA? Maybe it has a different name in North America ("current sensor"?). All searches for CT Clamp find UK content. It's pretty common in UK for both usage monitoring or controlling high current devices like EVSE. I have 2 - both free with electricity remote monitor display & EVSE installation, otherwise £20 maybe.

 

[mspohr]

Different country (UK), but in our house we have 80 amps at 240 (ish) volts on single phase (some of Rest of Europe have 3 phase 240 volt to homes). Some UK houses have 60 amps, others 100 amps - it varies. Some even have looped supplies (one cable shared by multiple houses, free to have fixed - https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads-view-reciteme/430885 ).

What we do is put a CT clamp on. It measures the current and if greater than something like 60% of the max amps is being used by kitchen, showers, lawnmowers etc, it tells charger to use less power or switch off. After the house's current usage goes down, it increases power to the charger/EVSE.

We can get close to 80 amps with all the cookers, hobs, kitchen appliances and power shower on. Not normally a problem except during festive cooking times.

According to following link, the CT can vary some EVSE chargers, not binary on/off - so it must be communicating with EVSE, not just cutting power.

Pod Point Solo EV Charger | Green Electrical EV

The Pod Point Solo Smart Electric vehicle charger is OLEV grant eligible for home and workplace charging scheme. The intelligent way to charger your EV!

www.greenelectrical-ev.co.uk

Do you have this in USA? Maybe it has a different name in North America ("current sensor"?). All searches for CT Clamp find UK content. It's pretty common in UK for both usage monitoring or controlling high current devices like EVSE. I have 2 - both free with electricity remote monitor display & EVSE installation, otherwise £20 maybe.

I believe some of the newer chargers from Tesla and others can adjust their charging current in response to other loads. Emporia (emporiaenergy.com) has a line of home energy monitoring equipment (including current sensors) and car chargers which can adjust power flows.
I believe a company called Span also monitors and adjusts current flows at home.

 

[iPlug]

The cars cause a pretty big problem at 100A. Heat pumps still need strips. At some point, it is challenging to have a dryer, backup heat strips and 2 car charging plugs on a 100A. Not to mention the solar takes up some room.
Do you really need to charge the car, run the dryer on a super cold morning (while taking 3 showers)? Not at all but having a bunch of switches all over the house to make sure that doesn't happen is a lot more challenging than just upgrading the service.
We have 200A service and it works but we are a bit loaded with a new house.
- 4.5 kw dryer
- 5 kw heat strips X 2 floors (with the right stat I am down to less than 1 hour per year)
- 10 kw EV x 2
- 4.5 kw? backup strips to HPHW (Not sure these have ever kicked in)
- 13 kw solar
Potential 10 kw range (we have NG)

We are in a somewhat similar situation. To make matters more challenging, if one has a large enough solar PV system, building codes/US National Electrical Code may require de-rating to a lower amperage main breaker to prevent busbar overload.

It's not a problem most would run into with 100A service and a 100% electrified house/personal transportation with some reasonable planning. But here is a plausible winter scenario: if they had a large PV system so had a de-rated main breaker, it was 5am and home air heat pump running de-ice cycle/heat strips, HPWH running, charging a couple EVs, pool pump...

 

[nwdiver]

To make matters more challenging, if one has a large enough solar PV system, building codes/US National Electrical Code may require de-rating to a lower amperage main breaker to prevent busbar overload.

That's easily avoided with a 'line-side-tap'. You just connect the PV system to the incoming lines above the main breaker with insulation piercing lugs and use a fused AC disconnect. I'm seeing some installers do that now by default even if they can connect directly to the panel. Saves them the trouble of doing math, ensuring they have the correct breaker or running the risk there won't be a space for the PV breaker.

 

[iPlug]

That's easily avoided with a 'line-side-tap'. You just connect the PV system to the incoming lines above the main breaker with insulation piercing lugs and use a fused AC disconnect. I'm seeing some installers do that now by default even if they can connect directly to the panel. Saves them the trouble of doing math, ensuring they have the correct breaker or running the risk there won't be a space for the PV breaker.

Any problems* with physical room/access for a line-side tap for those of us with an all-in-one service panel with built-in meter socket?

Changing to a line-side tap would also be great for us to free up a couple spaces in our main service panel which is full despite 3 subpanels.

*to include building inspectors who may be difficult for reasons not related to the limits of physics or safety

 

[nwdiver]

Any problems* with physical room/access for a line-side tap for those of us with an all-in-one service panel with built-in meter socket?

Changing to a line-side tap would also be great for us to free up a couple spaces in our main service panel which is full despite 3 subpanels.

*to include building inspectors who may be difficult for reasons not related to the limits of physics or safety

Usually not. The lugs are pretty streamlined. The biggest downside is the only way to de-energize the termination point is to pull the meter or have the utility kill power at the pole. You also have to follow the feeder tap rules. So from the tap to the AC disconnect needs to be <10'.

 

[David_Cary]

Of all things, I think getting people on board with a heat pump dryer is pretty challenging.
Certainly the heating needs in CA (for the most part) are pretty mild. Doesn't scale to much of the rest of the country.

 

[mspohr]

Of all things, I think getting people on board with a heat pump dryer is pretty challenging.
Certainly the heating needs in CA (for the most part) are pretty mild. Doesn't scale to much of the rest of the country.

We've been using our heat pump dryer for about 2 years. Works great. Somewhat slower but not an issue. Only draws 800 W and doesn't expel any waste heat.
We live at 6500 ft. elevation in the mountains so lots of snow and cold. Our heat pump heating system works great. I've also converted my 8000 sq.ft. office building to heat pumps. They work great. (and provide A/C in the summer).

 

[nwdiver]

Of all things, I think getting people on board with a heat pump dryer is pretty challenging.
Certainly the heating needs in CA (for the most part) are pretty mild. Doesn't scale to much of the rest of the country.