Elon Confirms S & X Are Chopped Liver

[VikH]

Hey Ohmman, thank you for posting this. As someone who is on the fence about getting a new Raven X, do you suspect that any of these sensor issues related to the FWDs might be improved in newer Model Xs or do you think it's a fundamental design flaw that will likely not change so long as the FWDs exist? Thanks

I would agree with most of @ohmman complaints except the comment about home garages and FWD not opening fully. Check your garage ceiling height and/or test drive the car and check that doors will open fully. If they cannot open fully, you will have the difficulty cited. But if they can open fully, you should not have this issue.

I do step out of the car to check opening positions, but I have a no problems with that. I’d do that in many parking garages anyhow if I’m parking near posts or walls and my kids are getting out. It’s worth the “inconvenience” i suppose of checking opening positions of the door compared to squeezing my kids out of our 3 when we take that and park next to other cars.

This times a million.

I'll be the counter point. I love my MX but if I could swap out the FWDs I would in a second. A few of the issues:

• I've had two times now where a FWD refused to open or close. Try to open and it says obstacle detected and won't move. Try to close and it says obstacle detected and won't move. The first time I drove it 45 minutes to the service center with the door beeping the whole way. Got there and they simply said it started working again and couldn't replicate it. Second time was a month ago. This one was super fun since we went to my daughter's dance recital and had a few items in the car which could be considered valuable. Happened again and the door wouldn't open or close. Because the car THOUGHT the door was open it refused to lock. I sat through the entire performance knowing my car was unlocked (visually the door looks closed though). Went out at intermission, couldn't get it to reset. Drove home with it beeping again. Got into the garage and it started working. Hasn't happened since.
• Twice now I've had ultrasonic sensors replaced in a door because when it gets hot the sensor peels back from the door (on the inside) then detects the door as an obstacle and won't open. I have many great videos of a door refusing to open with nothing but open air next to it. Hasn't happened again since the most recent sensor replacement, but the work done was exactly the same thing they did months ago...not sure why it will work now. So fun to tell your kids as they run up to your car..."no, you can't get in on that side, go around." "Why Dad?" "Because it's sunny out and the door won't open."

I also have a 2017 MX, but slightly higher VIN 52XXX and have never had the two issues above. The ultrasonic sensor issue (peeling off in sun) has been posted in the past by others, so that may occur with older cars. I am not sure if that has been reported on recent builds though.

Regarding the door being stuck or won't move, I have not seen that posted very often. There is probably something wrong with your door alignment/latching mechanism.

• Visually, the lines of the car are never just right. The handles are mis-aligned, the trim is mis-aligned, the doors close at different depths (and this changes over time). When I bring it up with service they say "we can only do so much, if we fix that mis-alignment, something else will be mis-aligned."
• I live in a wet climate. Had to get the seals fixed for water intrusion issues.

I have these two issues. My chrome window trim is horrible, but I have looked at newer cars at the SC (since 2018) and they are significantly better.

I would suspect the door seal water intrusion issue to still be a problem since the design has not been updated.

 

[mxnym]

Also note that in my garage, I have it set to always open fully which they have done (knock on wood). I assume you do as well, so not sure why it would open partially.

In my garage, with always open fully set, they still open partially and require manual override. This is because my garage is very tight. Technically, only one side can be opened fully; the other side cannot as it would hit the HPWC. Regardless, my point is that the always open fully setting doesn't 100% override the sensors, and there are situations where overriding is still necessary. To be clear, that's not something I'd complain about, I'm in the very happy with the FWDs camp. I sure wish I got a 6 seater instead of a 7 seater, though. Based on threads I've followed here, that puts me in the rare camp on both items.

 

[aesculus]

Daughters aged 9, 12, and 14. They all think the doors are embarrassing.

Let me fix this statement for you:
Daughters aged 9, 12, and 14. They all think the anything you own are embarrassing

 

[Lindamon]

I don't think they are even thinking about stopping production. That would make zero sense. I think what Elon meant was for people to quit worrying about S and X sales, because they are going to sell a lot more 3's and the S and X numbers aren't that important. He knows they aren't chopped liver.

This. Margins are higher on the X and S. But to sell more cars you need the less expensive cars, like the 3, and hopefully the Y, but he margins are lower. The high end cars make more money for the established manufacturers, don’t see why it would be any different for Tesla. If they stop production on the X or S, it’s only because they will be replaced with another high end model. Gotta have a high margin car to help profits. Margins will be lower for Tesla as they sell more and more lower priced cars, so it wouldn’t make sense to ignore a market, though smaller but not nonexistent, that can afford a six figure car.

 

[bob_p]

S/X will always be lower volume than 3/Y/pickup.

However, that doesn't mean Tesla will abandon S/X - they are just a lower priority right now - Tesla must continue to focus resources on getting the higher volume vehicles (Y/pickup) to market - and achieving consistent profitability.

Now that Tesla has a lower priced model - they are closer to the same position the other luxury vehicle manufacturers are in - a combination of lower priced higher volume and higher priced lower volume vehicles.

How likely is it that Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, … will abandon their higher- end models? Very unlikely - same will be true for Tesla.

Tesla can do more to differentiate S/X from 3/Y/pickup - without any hardware changes.

Bundling FUSC is a good first step. They could create a larger standard feature bundle (and increase the price) by adding free 4 year/50K mile maintenance, extending the warranty to 8 years/100K miles, providing loaners for overnight service, including Full Self Driving in all S/X, adding a separate S/X customer support line (not competing with the lower priced higher volume vehicle owners), ...

And they need to continue to provide battery, charging, motor improvements to S/X, including adding V3 supercharging (hopefully in the next 12 months).

When it comes time to replace our 2017 S or 2018 X - we're likely to look first at a new S or X than going with the smaller and lower priced 3/Y models...

 

[VikH]

Visually, the lines of the car are never just right. The handles are mis-aligned, the trim is mis-aligned, the doors close at different depths (and this changes over time). When I bring it up with service they say "we can only do so much, if we fix that mis-alignment, something else will be mis-aligned."

Bringing this one back up since I saw someone posted a picture of their doors/trim from a Raven MX. Chrome trim looks much better than mine. Door alignment looks good. See link below -

Anyone received delivery of 2019 'Raven' Refresh?

 

[mxnym]

Bringing this one back up since I saw someone posted a picture of their doors/trim from a Raven MX. Chrome trim looks much better than mine. Door alignment looks good. See link below -

Anyone received delivery of 2019 'Raven' Refresh?

Ouch, you really messed up that quote, got my name and a link to my post, but totally someone else's post in the text.

 

[VikH]

Ouch, you really messed up that quote, got my name and a link to my post, but totally someone else's post in the text.

Oops. Not sure how that happened. Here is the correct quote -

Visually, the lines of the car are never just right. The handles are mis-aligned, the trim is mis-aligned, the doors close at different depths (and this changes over time). When I bring it up with service they say "we can only do so much, if we fix that mis-alignment, something else will be mis-aligned."

 

[FreqFlyer]

Has anyone stopped to think what new products the Tesla Pickup platform will create? If the Tesla P/U is unibody, why would it not lead to a new more efficient (cheaper to build) X replacement? No doubt the truck will be built with the latest Tesla know how, powertrain and production improvements, why wouldn't the chassis spin off another CUV?

If the Tesla P/U starts around $50K why would not a CUV off the same platform be near that price? We do not know the time frame for such a vehicle but I bet in the planning stages.

 

[FreqFlyer]

Take it with a grain of salt but the person I heard it from would have accurate and reliable info because of their "unique" relation. This was about a year ago and It would not surprise me if there was a ground up redesign of the S to match that of the 3 in terms of manufacturing. In the case there will be I can tell you I have already sat in the new seats and they are very noice as they were intended for the 3 but pulled to not marginalize S sales and I know this to be a fact first hand. The 3 interior was far nicer in the beginning, too nice in fact and so it was scaled back and not because of cost but perception of lost S sales which at that time was a big deal. I really wish I had those seats! A completely new S announcement would all but stop the sales of the present car unless it was on fire sale. The only major thing carried over from the old car would be the motors. The goal is to be a bigger and nicer 3 with the same tech, business, and manufacture goals. Putting time into a S refresh on the same platform is not even a good stop gap measure presently.

What you lay out makes sense, should be economical to develop too. Lowering the costs and increasing the margins in a major way. But still probably two years out.

 

[OilSucks]

I just want to state that I listened to the entire Q2 Report Call and Elon was not anywhere as negative as the OP was stating he was. I find it completely disingenuous that this person would post something like this.