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Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

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You've moved the goal posts. Your claim was that Lidar vehicles were having "similar issues." I think the evidence suggests that the issues aren't similar to Tesla's at all. For openers, discounting the trumped up video, Tesla doesn't have ANY vehicle that can drive itself today. Both the Phoenix and Las Vegas projects involve Lidar vehicles actually driving paying passengers around. Are there issues? Of course. Are they similar to Tesla's inability to avoid hitting stationary fire trucks and slamming on the brakes for imaginary tree limbs hanging over a road, not by a long shot.

There is a difference that those Lidar taxis are only running on geofenced areas and much easier to train. In Tesla's case it has to be able to operable in any edge cases you would see anywhere in the world. You can't sell a car and tell people to drive in certain cities or certain street. Tesla could do a similar demo of course. We'll see what it will show in the April 22 investor event. To be clear those Lidar car still need a "safty engineer" in the car. They are not full autonomous vehicles yet.
 
I find it very hard to take anything said in that "interview" seriously, as the two breathless sycophants without technical understanding spent most of their time pumping words of self-praise into Musk's mouth. There was not a single follow-up to pin anything down.

e.g. @12:20
ARK: What makes you think this amazing technical feat [L4 sleep-in-the-back Autonomous Driving] is a solvable problem and why should Tesla be the one to solve it?
EM: I am an Engineer, I wrote software for like 15 or 20 years, I mean like I understand software at quite a fundamental level, I know what we need to solve to make FSD feature-complete, I think we've got an extremely good technical team, I think we really have the best people, it's an honour to work with them, and I am certain that we will get this done this year.

To which the obvious follow-up would have been "What has caused you to gain a better understanding now of what is needed for FSD than you had in 2016, 17 and 18, when you also made hugely optimistic predictions of imminent success?"

Here's this new interview of Elon.

Again complete fluff answer and flowery statements to anything Lex asked that could actually birth real responses and details. Even lex who is one of the biggest fan out there was taken back by it.

Lex: when asked "how hard is the remaining steps in software"

Elon Musk: fluff non answers

"Require detecting hands on wheel for at-least another 6 months"
"Driver monitoring/vigilance is mute"
"mute"
"mute"
"having humans intervene by end of this year will decrease safety"
"elevators"
"mute"
"Game. Set. match."

I don't understand how @diplomat33 expects actual details from April 22 other than fluff answers.

 
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Here's this new interview of Elon.

Again complete fluff answer and flowery statements to anything Lex asked that could actually birth real responses and details. Even lex who is one of the biggest fan out there was taken back by it.

Lex: when asked "how hard is the remaining steps in software"

Elon Musk: fluff non answers

"Require detecting hands on wheel for at-least another 6 months"
"Driver monitoring/vigilance is mute"
"mute"
"mute"
"having humans intervene by end of this year will decrease safety"
"elevators"
"mute"
"Game. Set. match."

I don't understand how @diplomat33 expects actual details from April 22 other than fluff answers.


New word for your vocabulary:
moot: deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic
 
Here's this new interview of Elon.

Again complete fluff answer and flowery statements to anything Lex asked that could actually birth real responses and details. Even lex who is one of the biggest fan out there was taken back by it.

Lex: when asked "how hard is the remaining steps in software"

Elon Musk: fluff non answers

"Require detecting hands on wheel for at-least another 6 months"
"Driver monitoring/vigilance is mute"
"mute"
"mute"
"having humans intervene by end of this year will decrease safety"
"elevators"
"mute"
"Game. Set. match."

I don't understand how @diplomat33 expects actual details from April 22 other than fluff answers.


Thanks for the video; it was damned painful to watch. Though Lex did his best to keep the butter-balls low and slow, no answer connected to any question, just a spaced -out replay of the ritual agitprop phrases to occupy airtime, punctuated by arrogant dismissals of the interlocutor's scientific work.

The punch-line about "What's outside the simulation?" was like being physically slapped in the face.

I am now fully prepared to be underwhelmed on 22nd.
 
my bad, what do you think about the interview, because i think you too was expecting something of substance from April 22nd autonomy event

I liked the interview overall, but it seemed sort of like a bad first date...
What relation do you see between the interview and prospects for April 22nd?

Thanks for the video; it was damned painful to watch. Though Lex did his best to keep the butter-balls low and slow, no answer connected to any question, just a spaced -out replay of the ritual agitprop phrases to occupy airtime, punctuated by arrogant dismissals of the interlocutor's scientific work.

What was the issue? Elon did not see Lex's field of interest as relevant in the medium to long term. Practical world vs academia.

The punch-line about "What's outside the simulation?" was like being physically slapped in the face.

I liked it, what question can we not already find the answer to that an AI might?
 
While the interview mostly lacked detail (but high level of confidence, must have pissed Blader off! lol), there was again validation that Tesla uses data from disengagements of Autopilot to send back to improve edge case learning. It sounded like only in specific instances though.

Made me think, I think there is going to be rapid iteration on what events are triggered to send back based on the current state of the FSD algorithm. For instance they only probably started collected some triggered disengagements of lane changes when autopilot suggested it, and the user declined (probably not accurate enough) or when the user accepted, but then disengaged (realizing some object /problem).

Meanwhile, stuff like traffic light detection has been developed with in-house data, but once it's deployed to a certain level of accuracy, only then will certain events that the user disagrees with the algorithm will a trigger save the data and send the edge case back to Tesla.

This means that Tesla's incremental development / deployment cycle is not just about making money / providing a nice L2/L3 product, but it also directly is beneficial to iteratively collecting edge cases over time as the algorithm is in good enough shape to trust the algorithm estimate / user input divergence.
 
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Elon did not see Lex's field of interest as relevant in the medium to long term. Practical world vs academia.

I saw it confirmed that Musk has scant respect for science he finds contradicting his impulses, e.g. to skimp on a competent DAM system for L2/3 AD.

I liked it, what question can we not already find the answer to that an AI might?

Maybe something of practical use, like the formula to a perfect electrolyte for solid-state lithium metal cell with >=1000Wh/kg?
 
Here's this new interview of Elon.

Again complete fluff answer and flowery statements to anything Lex asked that could actually birth real responses and details. Even lex who is one of the biggest fan out there was taken back by it.

Lex: when asked "how hard is the remaining steps in software"

Elon Musk: fluff non answers

"Require detecting hands on wheel for at-least another 6 months"
"Driver monitoring/vigilance is mute"
"mute"
"mute"
"having humans intervene by end of this year will decrease safety"
"elevators"
"mute"
"Game. Set. match."

I don't understand how @diplomat33 expects actual details from April 22 other than fluff answers.


I guess it is a matter of perspective. I found the interview plenty interesting although a lot of it was stuff I'd already heard. He talked about different types of disengagements that Tesla analyzes to improve AP. He also mentioned that his dev car stops and goes at traffic lights. He gave a little explanation of how Tesla is optimizes the software for handling intersections. I appreciated those comments. To the question you allude to of the remaining obstacles to FSD, Elon gave a good answer in my opinion. He said the following is critical to getting to FSD: 1) Having the FSD computer (AP3) that has enough base computational power, and 2) Refining the neural net and the control software. That's not a fluff answer.

Elon was also asked what needs to be done for people to really enjoy AP where AP is really useful for people. Musk again gave a good answer: 1) People will already like AP on highways because it really improves quality of life. 2) They need to extend that highway AP experience to city streets including traffic light recognition, navigating complex intersections and being able to navigate complex parking lots and the car being able to drop you off and find a parking space. I don't consider that a fluff answer.

Elon was also asked how long Tesla will require driver supervision. Musk said hands on wheel will be required for at least 6 months. Depends on how much safer the system is compared to human driver. You need large enough amount of data to have big sample to be able to statistically say that car is safer than human driver. Car needs to be 200-300% safer than a human driver. You measure this quantitatively by looking at incidents per mile, also probability of injury and probability of crash (fatal and non fatal). Maybe you consider that a fluff answer. I don't.

And Musk makes the excellent point that as the system improves, eventually vigilance is needed less and less. Eventually, when you get to L4 autonomy, the driver does not need to be vigilant at all and in fact, it would actually be counter productive for the driver to intervene. Elevator analogy is a good one.

Musk was asked about driver monitoring system. His answer was not fluff. He said that if your system is below human reliability then yes, you need a camera based driver monitoring. If you self-driving is dramatically better, you don't.

Musk was asked about the design decision for where AP could be used (in contract to GM's Supercruise which is super limited to only certain roads). Musk did give a fluff answer on this IMO. He said that when we have FSD, we will look back and think we were crazy to ever allow manual driving. I do agree with him on that though even if it is a fluff answer to the question.

But to your last point. No, I don't expect super secret details at the April 22. Yes, I expect a lot of the presentation part to be repetition of what we've already heard over and over again (FSD capable hardware, AP3 10x better than AP2, FSD features rolling out etc.). Karpathy may give some more details since he is closer to the FSD development than Musk is. But the test drives should be good too in showing us what Tesla actually has. I am more interested in the test drives than in the talky presentation.
 
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Everyone is entitled to ask questions. It's making conclusions without supporting evidences that is the problem. You should check Andrej Karpathy's background and what he has done. Beside I don't think anyone could bs his way into working for Elon.

Besides doing his Ph.D and few internships, and finally got a first gig job at Tesla, he really has not accomplished anything except did some research paper
 
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Besides doing his Ph.D and few internships, and finally got a first gig job at Tesla, he really has not accomplished anything except did some research paper

He just got a PhD with a focus on intersection of natural language processing and computer vision, and deep learning models, got a job as a research scientist at OpenAI and then became the director of AI at Tesla. Yep, not much of an accomplishment there. [sarcasm]
 
He just got a PhD with a focus on intersection of natural language processing and computer vision, and deep learning models, got a job as a research scientist at OpenAI and then became the director of AI at Tesla. Yep, not much of an accomplishment there. [sarcasm]

He's actually right. He only had 1.5 years of professional experience before jumping to a director.
Internships and PHD are accomplishments now? He's literally only here because of the course he was taught in Stanford (Stanford's CS231n) as part of his PHD, that got popular.
 
He just got a PhD with a focus on intersection of natural language processing and computer vision, and deep learning models, got a job as a research scientist at OpenAI and then became the director of AI at Tesla. Yep, not much of an accomplishment there. [sarcasm]


getting a McD type of graduate degree that all the university are pumping out like no one's business (plus the AI stuff is really Fei-Fei's project not Karpathy's), then did some research at openAI getting paid not a lot of money, then jump ship into corporate Tesla . That is just natural progression not accomplishment.

However check on some other people who actually have something to show for like comma.ai. Doing more work than Karpathy in the same time frame. And George Hotz can take Karpathy anytime.
 
However check on some other people who actually have something to show for like comma.ai. Doing more work than Karpathy in the same time frame. And George Hotz can take Karpathy anytime.

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