That maybe but it's interesting that the average futbol attendance (21,305) in the MLS now exceeds the average attendance for the NBA or NHL. Of course the Seattle Sounders skews that a bit but progress nevertheless.
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Elon: FSD Beta tweets
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
Correct.
I bought EAP ($5K) + FSD ($3K) for grand total of $8k back in 2018.
In terms of comparisons as to what was promised, and what was delivered I'd say EAP was the bigger let down.
With EAP I was promised that the entire freeway experience would mostly be automated where I still had to supervise, and apple torque to the steering wheel. I figured that was realistic. Little did I know how crappy NoA would turn out to be (in my region/traffic/etc).
With FSD I got the HW3 upgrade for free which is why I got it, and excitement for what it MIGHT bring.
I can't say I have any regrets. Now If I had bought after March 2019 I would really regret getting FSD, and not waiting for the subscription pricing.
What's amusing to me is the $8K for EAP+FSD has probably saved me more than $8K as one of the reasons I didn't upgrade to plaid was FSD wasn't transferable.
I figure Tesla wants to keep me from ever upgrading, and so I don't.
They're basically telling me that they don't want my money.
I'll give Tesla a couple more years before I jump to Rivian.
A true naysayer is someone that says FSD Beta (the current city streets V9.X FSD + V10 bringing improvements to NoA) won't ever get released. That it will never be allowed because it puts normal average human beings in the position of being a safety driver of an autonomous vehicle. That it's just way too much responsibility on the person behind the wheel.
If Tesla is allowed to release FSD Beta as an L2 system then the naysayers lose.
The reason is from that moment on Tesla can leverage their entire fleet to beta test the crap out of every improvement, and they can grow the subscriber base.
Tesla doesn't even need to focus on real FSD, but on what grows the subscriber base. They can cater to people like me that might just need a few things fixed to have a mostly uneventful FSD drive to work (assuming FSD Beta).
They're also not locked into HW as they can improve the HW as time goes on.
We as a group tend to be fixed on FSD from the perspective of the owner. Like when we're going to get what we paid for. But, I don't think Tesla is. If I was Tesla I'd be trying to come up with ways of moving people away from owning FSD to a subscriber base. There is too much reoccurring cost with autonomous driving (liability, mapping, etc), and improvements to be made to the HW to have people own FSD.
I say all this as someone who thinks the naysayer might be right so I'm going to be a bit surprised in 8-12 weeks when FSD beta has a general release (I figure 3x Elon is about right). But, they'll probably release a gimped version of FSD Beta so no one can claim victory.
linux-works
Active Member
it does not matter what elon says and it does not matter what the fans think.
the only thing that will determine the success of any 'fsd' is, once its declared 'ready' and deployed, how safe is it over time.
if the thing bumps into stuff all the time and its constantly in the press and pissing people off, then there's your answer.
if there's no events in the news and people are not angry at the sight of 'yet another human-killing machine' then its a success.
but what elon says - 100% does not matter. a product will be 'done' at some point and we'll see, over the coming years, how safe it is vs just regular manual control or partial assists.
the only thing that will determine the success of any 'fsd' is, once its declared 'ready' and deployed, how safe is it over time.
if the thing bumps into stuff all the time and its constantly in the press and pissing people off, then there's your answer.
if there's no events in the news and people are not angry at the sight of 'yet another human-killing machine' then its a success.
but what elon says - 100% does not matter. a product will be 'done' at some point and we'll see, over the coming years, how safe it is vs just regular manual control or partial assists.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I'm a naysayer who thought it would never get released (now I'm not sure!) but Tesla is definitely allowed to release FSD Beta. If it's not safe then it may cease to be allowed. The new NHTSA reporting requirements will help in determining how safe it is. It doesn't seem like there are any losers if it turns out to be safe!
It doesn't seem like there are any losers if it turns out to be safe!
Which is also the motto on the side of my box of Mexican Fireworks.
...or it could be tested and approved as safe before being released. But how and by who?
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Exactly, how would one even test such a thing? Its safety is entirely dependent on the attention, judgement, and reflexes of the user just like driving manually. Is a car that randomly want to swerve into oncoming traffic safe? It's possible that it's safer than a car that doesn't!
Perhaps Gordon Tullock was right and this would be safest car design:
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Whole Mars doing his usual hype sales pitch for Tesla and Elon hyping V10 coming "soon":
planetary
EndlessCheese spreader
Whole Mars Catalog: "I'm not just a customer, I'm an investor and influencer!" Ugh.
Damn you, Al Gore: what hath ye wrought?
Damn you, Al Gore: what hath ye wrought?
I personally am a fan of "pre-release beta" - Tell me something is in alpha testing without saying it's in alpha testing.
Cheburashka
Active Member
Just reading a tweet from Whole Mars makes me facepalm bigly.
It's amazing he makes so few typos with Elon's lower stomach covering his eyes at all times.
Cheburashka
Active Member
Not even gonna bother watching the video that Whole Mars posted, but even if we take the furthest possible point between SFO and San Francisco, it's still under 20 miles total distance.
One disengagement in under 20 miles is pretty bad.
One disengagement in under 20 miles is pretty bad.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Statistically, 20 miles is not enough to judge anything. And to be fair, the disengagement was optional, not a safety issue. The car was not able to get into the left turn lane because it was blocked by traffic so Whole Mars decided to disengage and do the left turn manually since he says that FSD Beta would have missed the turn. He could have let FSD Beta go straight. Presumably, FSD Beta would have rerouted automatically and perhaps it would have completed the trip with zero disengagements. We don't know.
Interestingly, if FSD Beta won't try to make a turn unless it is in the turn lane, then I could see FSD Beta missing turns a lot when there is a lot of traffic.
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I don't think turning from that lane was legal. haha. Probably for the best that FSD isn't programmed to make illegal turns.
FSD should have turned into the left lane when it made the right like the car in front of him did. Admittedly a human would probably only do that if they knew the route very well.
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