Elon Musk: Model S, Model X production continues for ‘sentimental reasons’

[seclinton]

If he thinks they are niche and not important to TESLA anymore, please release restricted parts for others to manufacture and give our cars the life Corvettes and DeLoreans have.

our Signature X is out of warranty and I feel strangely liberated but still can only drink from one trough through OEM parts availability and restricted parts list bullshit

 

[Magellan55]

This news kind of shoots the dreams of those expecting a refresh soon.

On the bright side, he also said S,X,3 are all getting a power and range boost in a few weeks OTA. 5% for 3, 3% for S, X. Didn't specify if it was just the Ravens though. Includes better one-pedal driving, but didn't elaborate. My guess is more powerful regen.

 

[cityberty]

Believe S/X are still the Flagships.

S is the most beautiful, has the longest range, is the quickest and highest speed. It has much greater interior volume than the 3, is made of high tech aluminum underneath, has the largest wheels and brakes, has the premium adaptable and adjustable air ride suspension, has two displays instead of just one in the middle, has the most rear seat passenger room, etc.

The X has the signature Falcon Wing doors, is equipped to tow 5,000s, seats up to 7, has an option for executive rear seating, has the most carrying capacity, qualifies for Section 179 tax breaks for profitable business owners, has the fantastic panoramic windshield, the latest ceramic bearings, and the best of both worlds front and rear motors.

Both S&X can come with Ludicrous Mode, and are in line to also receive the ultra high performance 3 motor Plaid Modes. They also have the fresh air HEPA filters with Bio-Defence mode and come standard with private gate/garage door actuators.

Model 3 is cute and nimble, and comes with some newer gadgets, but a big stretch to call them the Flagship of Tesla....plus they are much more common. More that they are the value brand. Don't even come with self opening power doors or hatch. Even a simple fob costs extra.

I feel that whatever space in his mind he gave the S and X are now reserved for the roadster and cybertruck/pickup at least at the current moment.

 

[David_Cary]

In my opinion, he was just saying that the mediocre sales at this point don't matter that much. The profit - right now - isn't all that meaningful. Maybe - it was just him explaining away the decreased sales as not a large problem.
Sour grapes?
That doesn't mean there isn't a place for a large sedan that is more of a flagship. The manufacturing cost probably needs to come down and there needs to be a higher end interior. Otherwise, volume against the competition might not be there.
In 2012-2018, there was zero competition.
In 2018-2021, there is close to zero competition in the premium $40k space so why not stick to that.
But we are getting close to decent alternative charging networks and decent premium vehicles - in the $80-$100k range. At least enough that making a decent return on the refresh investment compared to a pickup, model Y, semi ....

 

[Benjanos]

I wish Tesla still made Panoramic Sunroofs for the Model S

I thought the pano roof was an 'off menu' option. Meaning its not on the web site but available if you go into a store and order the car.

 

[bob_p]

In the context of achieving and sustaining profitability - 3/Y/pickup/Semi/Energy storage are the biggest revenue streams - and critical to repeatable profitability.

S/X/Roadster will always be low volume products - which should generate higher profit margins (because they are more "niche" products), but are lower priority right now as Tesla ramps up the higher volume revenue streams.

Is there a risk Tesla will cancel S/X/Roadster? YES

Will it happen? PROBABLY NOT

All manufacturers have a range of high volume to low volume vehicles - and as Tesla matures into a sustainable business - it would be surprising for Tesla to drop S/X/Roadster - and cede the high end market to the other manufacturers.

What's more likely to happen is for a major refresh of S/X to come in 12 to 24 months - redesigning both vehicles to use mostly shared components (which will be the case for 3/Y), so Tesla can product S/X on a single production line and reduce their manufacturing costs, increasing profit margins.

Roadster will never make sense economically - it will always be a "prestige" product - built to demonstrate Tesla's technology is the best.

When it's time to replace our current S or X, it's likely we'll buy another X - and if Tesla doesn't offer a replacement of that size (with longer range), we'll seriously consider other manufacturers than going with a smaller Y.

 

[jebinc]

Sounds like EM playing to the investors/Wall Street....

 

[ucmndd]

And now Elon’s “sentimental” comment makes me fear S/X are not long for this world.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they eventually took a hiatus, perhaps sooner than later, if for no other reason than space at Fremont is going to become increasingly valuable. Devoting that much space to a very complex, slow, low-volume manufacturing process is going to be increasingly problematic with the impending release of more volume models (Y) and new more profitable niche lines (pickup to start, semi, roadster, etc).

 

[emmz0r]

I wonder if they get to the point at sales where you get the eerie feeling that they don't really want to sell S or X and try to get you to buy 3 or Y.

 

[Magellan55]

What's more likely to happen is for a major refresh of S/X to come in 12 to 24 months - redesigning both vehicles to use mostly shared components (which will be the case for 3/Y), so Tesla can product S/X on a single production line and reduce their manufacturing costs, increasing profit margins.

When I toured the factory last year I'm almost certain there were a mix of S and X on the same line. They do share a ton of parts already.

 

[ucmndd]

When I toured the factory last year I'm almost certain there were a mix of S and X on the same line. They do share a ton of parts already.

I believe that’s true, but it’s also true there are two full general assembly lines devoted to S/X production. That obviously can’t continue moving forward. The space is too valuable.

 

[whitex]

In the context of achieving and sustaining profitability - 3/Y/pickup/Semi/Energy storage are the biggest revenue streams - and critical to repeatable profitability.

S/X/Roadster will always be low volume products - which should generate higher profit margins (because they are more "niche" products), but are lower priority right now as Tesla ramps up the higher volume revenue streams.

Is there a risk Tesla will cancel S/X/Roadster? YES

Will it happen? PROBABLY NOT

All manufacturers have a range of high volume to low volume vehicles - and as Tesla matures into a sustainable business - it would be surprising for Tesla to drop S/X/Roadster - and cede the high end market to the other manufacturers.

What's more likely to happen is for a major refresh of S/X to come in 12 to 24 months - redesigning both vehicles to use mostly shared components (which will be the case for 3/Y), so Tesla can product S/X on a single production line and reduce their manufacturing costs, increasing profit margins.

Roadster will never make sense economically - it will always be a "prestige" product - built to demonstrate Tesla's technology is the best.

When it's time to replace our current S or X, it's likely we'll buy another X - and if Tesla doesn't offer a replacement of that size (with longer range), we'll seriously consider other manufacturers than going with a smaller Y.

If S/X do not contribute much to profitability and profitability is Elon's number one goal, any refresh or new features will be low priority, following other low priority things like SDK, phone as key for S/X, etc, etc. They will continue making them with minor changes, maybe introduce plaid drive train mostly to use is a beta tester before adding it to high volume platforms. Once a competitor comes up with a similar car in similar price range, it will be game over for S/X because S/X minimalistic tech is not going to cut it - and no, games and farts don't make up for proper phone integration or driver UX - remember Steve Wozniak's comments a while back, when he told reporters he's driving his Bolt daily while his S is reserved for long distance trips because at the time Bolt didn't have a charging network? Note that he continued this trend later when he replaced his cars, bought another P100D for trips and brand new Bolt as a daily driver? Most people don't have Woz's money, so they won't be buying 2, and as the other guys get a charging network, Tesla loses its main advantage, and being a low volume, non-profit-significant car, any retrofit will always be low priority - meaning will not happen since it would hit near term profitability (low volume cars take forever to break even on refresh costs). Main near term competitors to S are Taycan and eTron GT - both will arrive with a decent charging network already deployed. Tesla Roadster will stay as the beta tester for latest tech and Elon's "ours is the fastest" car, but at $250K will stay a low volume car.

 

[alstoralset]

The Model 3 predecessors were a very public learning curve for Tesla. Starting with the Roadster, each model was state of the art for its time, with an ever growing, loyal fan base.

We were wowed by Tesla's equivalent of Fly by Night, 2112, and Permanent Waves, before we learned what perfection really is with Moving Pictures. Hopefully Elon will stop before Power Windows, though.

 

[tonybelding]

Funny, I just saw a video on YouTube where someone was telling me now is the worst possible time to buy a S or X. There's refreshes coming soon, real soon now, and anyone who buys today is gonna miss out!

 

[tccartier]

To keep some top of the line flagship car, in the long term, it might be simpler to beef up the Model Y, something very popular in China,
instead of refurbing the Model S with new batteries, dashboard, and air vents, based on the Model 3 design?
So one single assembly line to keep everything simple.

Stretched Audi A6L unveiled in China
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I don't want a Model S based on a Model 3 design. That's why BMW has a 7 series and a 3 series or Mercedes Benz has the S-Class and the E-Class.

 

[whitex]

I don't want a Model S based on a Model 3 design. That's why BMW has a 7 series and a 3 series or Mercedes Benz has the S-Class and the E-Class.

And BMW and Merc have larger, established engineering with processes which allow for such wide range of designs. Tesla is a Silicon Valley startup with engineering not even keeping up with what Elon promised already, and in some cases sold too (i.e. took money for it and yet to have delivered even a beta, forget actual product).

 

[ucmndd]

I don't want a Model S based on a Model 3 design. That's why BMW has a 7 series and a 3 series or Mercedes Benz has the S-Class and the E-Class.

I think you’d be hard pressed to say with a straight face that the Big Boy low volume German models aren’t being driven/designed by the volume models. Lots of people like to think it’s the other way around, but in reality it hasn’t been that way for decades.

 

[alloverx]

And BMW and Merc have larger, established engineering with processes which allow for such wide range of designs. Tesla is a Silicon Valley startup with engineering not even keeping up with what Elon promised already, and in some cases sold too (i.e. took money for it and yet to have delivered even a beta, forget actual product).

How long before Tesla is not a startup, they were founded in 2003 and have a higher market cap than Ford?
They have around 45,000 employees.

 

[whitex]

How long before Tesla is not a startup, they were founded in 2003 and have a higher market cap than Ford?
They have around 45,000 employees.

When Elon stops running is as a startup, so probably after he dies or leaves.

 

[malcolm]

Elon is an engineer.

I think that he sees Plaid as the final modification which is possible with the S/X platform.

It's clear from other conversations that he is far more focussed / enamoured by the cybertruck.