Elon says no Central Speedometer

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla / Elon has admitted that there were a ton of down sides to the falcon wing doors.

Whether or not they have learned from the debacle remains to be seen.

The thing is, I really like falcon wing doors. I just don't think they made any business sense for Tesla. When you are BMW, you can be adventurous with an X6, because you already have the mainstream X5.

But Tesla don't have an X5 yet. IMO they need "do it all" models. Model S is a great "do it all" model. Model X is not. And unfortunately Model 3 does not seem to be either (e.g. no hatchback, controversial dash).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I can see them taking this approach several years and design iterations down the road, but they're moving way too fast and aggressively. Your goal is to make EVs an acceptable (or even superior) alternative to ICEs, you'd think the first thing you'd do is establish a core lineup that appeals to most markets of car buyers to create a foundation. Then you can start doing weird stuff.

Bingo. They got it SO right with the Model S. It is a great, great normal car.

Then they went into weirdmobiles for whatever reason. Carried away with their design innovations or something. Great when you have the core done, but they don't yet.

I mean, if they had this: Model X with normal doors, all folding seats. Model 3 as a small Model S aka a hatchback with similar dash (but smaller/lower-end screens). That would be the core linenup that would have appealed far and wide.

Later they could have gone more adventurous...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Not true at all. Toyota Prius hasn't done this (behind the steering wheel speedometer) for years, other cars as well. This shouldn't be upsetting you. That's like saying in a push button start car that they should have added a key slot so you can stick in a key and physically turn it because that's what people are used to... you know "for safety". It's all BS. Heck, the Tesla doesn't have a push button to start the car.

Prius is completely different than Model 3, though. Prius has a separate instrument cluster, it is just placed much more forward and slightly to the right - almost like a HUD, near the windshield you are looking out of.

Model 3 has no instrument cluster, just a central screen much closer to the driver in depth and more to the right than the Prius instrument cluster. More akin to looking at the Model S big screen depth-wise/downwards-wise.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Iget that you like the practicality of a liftback--it has made my Model S a great car for Ikea runs--but don't think that the trade was made just because somebody thought a glass roof would be cool. Heck, I'm only ~175-177cm tall and my head hits the headliner if I sit in the back of my Model S.

I'm not really concerned for myself. I am discussing what I think would be the smartest moves market-wise. Tesla does not have tons of models to choose from. Making the ones they do as widely appealing as possible makes sense.

Hasn't this already been discussed to death? Making the Model 3 a liftback would require relocating a rear structural support to a location which would pretty much kill off all rear headroom...an issue, mind you, that the Model S already suffers from. Correcting for this would mean raising the roofline even higher than it already is in the Model 3, which would impact aero, which would hurt range. Also, I have a suspicion that the large roof opening that the glass section creates during manufacturing might allow for automating some level of interior assembly eventually, reducing manufacturing cost and increasing output.

I'm just not buying the reasoning - not as the main/deciding reason anyway. I think Tesla is in love with their glass design and have simply gone crazy with it, same with Model X and its very troublesome windshield (see all the ghosting threads). Making a hatchback is not that hard.

 

[ecarfan]

My interpretation of it being hatchback is my own and based on what the prototype looks like. It is hatchback car in every way, except the stub of a trunk. It is not a sedan design shape-wise and its trunk, the way it lifts, is a hatchback feature, only cut short by the reality of the long glass ceiling.

Your "interpretation"? Your post stated that the Model 3 "prototype was a hatchback". You did not qualify your statement. It was presented as fact.

The sloping rear roof of the Model 3 likely improves the aerodynamics of the vehicle. A conventional sedan shape for the roof/trunk transition would negatively effect the aerodynamics.

Is it possible Tesla always intended the Model 3 to have a sedan-like trunk opening size? Certainly it is possible. But if it remains like that, it will be controversial. It is the hatch that could have been. It lifts up promising so much and then ending up with almost a cabriolet-like small trunk hole

Simply because the hinge points for the Model 3 trunk lid are not in a conventional location does not mean Tesla ever considered designing the car as a hatchback and then decided not to but mysteriously neglected to change the trunk lid hinge points. Consider how the Model 3 trunk lid raises high up and much more out of the way compared to placing the hinge point at the base of the rear window.

Once again, Tesla is taking a different approach on something as relatively minor as where the trunk lid hinges are located. But there are good reasons for doing so. WIll it be "controversial"? I think that once the car is in the hands of buyers and reviewers it will not be an issue. Certainly some people will continue to say they want to the car to have a hatchback. And Tesla will say "Wait for the Model Y". Or buy an S. Too expensive? Buy a CPO S. Still too expensive? Buy a Bolt.

 

[North75]

But when you put everything on one screen and you're looking over to that screen for everything, yes it could get messy.

Who knows, maybe putting everything on one screen will be better than two. There might be something to be said by being able to see the status of multiple systems with one glance.

When I drive my car with center dash mounted nav screen, I probably look at it more then my behind the wheel instrument cluster. Having my speed displayed on the nav screen would probably be helpful.

Ultimately, I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually sit behind the wheel or at least see it photos in its final approved form, I just can't imagine how what they've shown so far would be an issue from a placement standpoint. I'm pretty sure decisions they make regarding the UI like how and where they decide to display info on the screen will be much more important.

(Regarding the trunk opening, from what I can tell from the (alpha) photos it appears of similar size to the opening of my 3 series so I'm assuming it will be fine as well. Granted, I've never owned a hatchback, so perhaps I don't know what I'm missing)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Your "interpretation"? Your post stated that the Model 3 "prototype was a hatchback". You did not qualify your statement. It was presented as fact.

I find your literal interpretation of past words rather tiresome. I have explained what I meant by it.

The sloping rear roof of the Model 3 likely improves the aerodynamics of the vehicle. A conventional sedan shape for the roof/trunk transition would negatively effect the aerodynamics.

I have no problem with that. Then again, Bolt has pretty nice range and it is a box.

Simply because the hinge points for the Model 3 trunk lid are not in a conventional location does not mean Tesla ever considered designing the car as a hatchback and then decided not to but mysteriously neglected to change the trunk lid hinge points. Consider how the Model 3 trunk lid raises high up and much more out of the way compared to placing the hinge point at the base of the rear window.

Agreed, though we don't know what Tesla's original design intent was - and Tesla has no reason to tell us.

Once again, Tesla is taking a different approach on something as relatively minor as where the trunk lid hinges are located. But there are good reasons for doing so. WIll it be "controversial"? I think that once the car is in the hands of buyers and reviewers it will not be an issue.

There were three things that caused widespread comment after the prototype launch: the duckface, the instrument cluster and the trunk size. Of these Tesla seems to have addressed the first, have done something to the third (we don't know what yet), the second (instrument cluster) remains the most controversial. Is the trunk opening controversial? I think it is at least a weakness of the design.

Certainly some people will continue to say they want to the car to have a hatchback. And Tesla will say "Wait for the Model Y". Or buy an S. Too expensive? Buy a CPO S. Still too expensive? Buy a Bolt.

Yeah, and that's the problem. Model Y is a "few years" away. Model S is not for everyone size and price-wise, even though it is very versatile. Some will go for Bolt.

Making it a great hatchback would have easily broadened the customer-base, just like it did with Model S.

Tesla does not have the "something for everyone" line-up of an Audi. They need "do it all" models. Model S is a great "do it all" model as it covers . Model X and, it seems, Model 3 not so much.

 

[pikachu]

When I drive my car with center dash mounted nav screen, I probably look at it more then my behind the wheel instrument cluster. Having my speed displayed on the nav screen would probably be helpful.

This. I find that I almost always refer to the speed/weather info on the center nav screen instead of the instrument cluster behind the wheel. I for one will not mind the lack of an instrument cluster one bit.

 

[JeffK]

My point was why NOT include it? It wouldn't hurt a thing and would avoid all of this. I never said there was no speedometer or it wasn't visible. But when you put everything on one screen and you're looking over to that screen for everything, yes it could get messy.

Why have a redundant speedometer... makes no sense. You shouldn't really be looking at anything else on the screen while driving anyway besides possibly navigation, unless you are in autonomous mode, in which case, you can view everything else on the screen at your leisure and not even worry about the speedometer.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why have a redundant speedometer... makes no sense.

What redundant speedometer? Obviously if Model 3 had some kid of instument cluster or secondary screen, that would be the first and likely only place for the speedometer.

You shouldn't really be looking at anything else on the screen while driving anyway besides possibly navigation, unless you are in autonomous mode, in which case, you can view everything else on the screen at your leisure and not even worry about the speedometer.

Warning lights? Autopilot insights e.g. speed limits? Odometer/consumption type of data from current point of time? Regeneration/limiter info? Range?

I can't believe people are now arguing against driver instrumentation in cars. This is IMO getting out of hand.

Driver instrumentation matters and "autonomous mode" to the extent you stop being responsible for the car is years away, when counting most of the driving scenarios. One will be able to Level 3 on highway this year in some cars, but that's still a very specific scenario.

In the meanwhile, and quite possible even after that, driver instrumentation is certainly needed.

 

[LectrikPower]

I

Why have a redundant speedometer... makes no sense. You shouldn't really be looking at anything else on the screen while driving anyway besides possibly navigation, unless you are in autonomous mode, in which case, you can view everything else on the screen at your leisure and not even worry about the speedometer.

It wouldn't be redundant if it was only on the behind the steering wheel display. If you have one you don't need it on the center screen.

I think it is a matter of "can we get away with everything on one screen" rather than It's better with everything on one screen. It's better cost and complexity wise for Tesla but I don't think it's better aside from that.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I

It wouldn't be redundant if it was only on the behind the steering wheel display. If you have one you don't need it on the center screen.

I think it is a matter of "can we get away with everything on one screen" rather than It's better with everything on one screen. It's better cost and complexity wise for Tesla but I don't think it's better aside from that.

Indeed.

Even Tesla knows driver instrumentation is still needed - and will be needed for the lifetime of this "model" of Model 3.

They have made a compromise to address that within their other plans and it looks like that compromise is a rather controversial one.

 

[CHG-ON]

An IP isn't in front of you. The road is in front of you. An IP is down, just like a central screen is right.

-smak-

That's odd. I don't consider lower to not be right smack in front of me, as mine clearly is...

 

[eisbock]

Bingo. They got it SO right with the Model S. It is a great, great normal car.

Then they went into weirdmobiles for whatever reason. Carried away with their design innovations or something. Great when you have the core done, but they don't yet.

I mean, if they had this: Model X with normal doors, all folding seats. Model 3 as a small Model S aka a hatchback with similar dash (but smaller/lower-end screens). That would be the core linenup that would have appealed far and wide.

Later they could have gone more adventurous...

The Model S's normalcy was actually one of the reasons it was so earth-shattering. It was not the first ever electric car, but it was the first electric car that people wouldn't be caught dead driving. I just don't understand why Tesla couldn't do that for their affordable car too. What is it with this stigma that electric has to be weird?!

 

[SouthFLGuy]

Why have a redundant speedometer... makes no sense. You shouldn't really be looking at anything else on the screen while driving anyway besides possibly navigation, unless you are in autonomous mode, in which case, you can view everything else on the screen at your leisure and not even worry about the speedometer.

Not a redundant speedometer. The only speedometer. As far as looking anywhere else while driving - so if you're driving you're not supposed to switch audio inputs, or change the climate controls?

 

[Scannerman]

At only $149 it appears i'll be buying one of these:

The Windshield Heads Up Display - Hammacher Schlemmer

I like the idea. But, one should not have to jury rig a state of the art vehicle.

Scannerman

 

[Scannerman]

That's not the question at all. It matters not if it's insufficient for some. Insufficient means you simply go buy something else.



Pfft. Much ado about nothing. People just love to hold onto what they've known their whole lives rather than venturing out to try new things with an open mind. You don't know, what you don't know. And until we all live with a single screen Model 3 for a while, we've got no idea how sufficient or insufficient it will be. I'm stoked to go with whatever Tesla decides to do with my 3 and give it a go.

I would rather not lose 10 or 20 thousand dollars, just for the opportunity, to verify the practicality of this concept.

Scannerman

 

[Garlan Garner]

I like the idea. But, one should not have to jury rig a state of the art vehicle.

Scannerman

Does the Model S or Model X have a OBD II port?

 

[Scannerman]

I only look at my speedometer that often when I'm wondering how much over the speed limit i'm going especially if I see a cop car. On the highways in the Midwest, since it's very open, many times 15 over is just fine , 25-30 over is pushing it, and 40 mph over the speed limit and you'll probably get a ticket, always written for a speed below the reckless threshold, regardless of your actual speed.

During rush hour though you can be lucky to go the speed limit, there's no point in looking at your speedometer unless you like being upset.

Are you saying you never find the need to check your speed, as you approach a curve with a posted recommended speed? I drove a truck for about 3 million miles, but never attained that level of intuitive speed sensation!

Scannerman

 

[Garlan Garner]

Are you saying you never find the need to check your speed, as you approach a curve with a posted recommended speed? I drove a truck for about 3 million miles, but never attained that level of intuitive speed sensation!

Scannerman

I never check my speed. Ever - because my phone sits in front of the speedometer.