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Elon says no Central Speedometer

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To all those who are adamant that a speedometer/instrument panel behind wheel is unnecessary, have you driven a car without one? And not just a test drive, but for years? I have, and I still think it sucks.

I have, for over 12 years now, and I find it to be no problem at all. My wife and I have a 2001 Toyota Echo with center-mounted instrument cluster, and a 2008 Toyota Matrix with instruments behind the wheel. I switch back and forth between the two styles with no issues whatsoever. The Echo's center instrument cluster may have taken a day or so to get used to. It was so inconsequential that I don't even remember it beyond that. I do know that my eye travel between speedometer and road is shorter with the Echo than it is with the Matrix.

Personally I hope they set the screen into the dash rather than extended like on the prototypes, so that it's further from the driver and eye travel distance is lessened, like it is on my Echo. The Echo has kind of a sloping dash with the center cluster popping up out of it about halfway to the windshield, so further from the driver than the Model 3 but not as far, I think, as the Prius pictures upthread.
 
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I've been driving my Prius for 16 years and it hasn't ever bothered me to have no instrumentation behind the steering wheel. What has bothered me, though, is the glare from the high-mounted and setback speedo display that reflects off the base of the windshield at night, so I have to dim it. Hopefully, display reflection off the windshield will not be a problem on the Model 3 since its display is mounted closer to the driver. But, as far as having all the instrumentation off to the side, I don't foresee that as an issue. When I drive my wife's minivan, I have to adjust the steering wheel height so it doesn't block my view of the speedometer (and heaven help me if I forget to set it back). That's not necessary when the readout is off to the side.
I drive a Prius occasionally, and you absolutely have to adjust the dimming knob literally every time you drive in the day or at night. There is no one setting that works in all conditions. It's actually quite annoying and I only drive the car once a month or so. Hell, I didn't even know cars had a dimmer until I encountered the Prius. Turns out my 1998 Camry has one too! Who woulda thunk!

Now, you talk about glare, but what about sun glare from the unprotected screen? Can any Model S owners chime in? I can't see my phone screen for *sugar* in the daytime.
 
I love that the subject never changes around here.

Every other week or so, I can pop in, paste the same quote, and feel like I contributed.


“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
Bad analogy. There were no other 4 wheeled transportation options for the masses in Ford's day. Today they have lots of options.

Wierdmobiles won't sell to the masses. There's a fine line between giving people what they're used to and pushing the envelope. If the Model 3 falls on the wrong side, Tesla is finished.
 
Bad analogy. There were no other 4 wheeled transportation options for the masses in Ford's day. Today they have lots of options.

Wierdmobiles won't sell to the masses. There's a fine line between giving people what they're used to and pushing the envelope. If the Model 3 falls on the wrong side, Tesla is finished.

Lol. Yea, just like moving the high beam switch from the floor to the stalk, unleaded fuel, halogen light bulbs, letting women drive...

It's 2017, technology evolves.

Calm down, and wait for your car, or retreat to the boring safety of a used Camry
 
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Experience from a portuguese guy of a Model 3-like central speedometer in a Renault Fluence ZE.


There was no need to move the head to look for the center speedometer, just to look right instead of looking down. He in fact stated it was easier and prefered to have this digital speedometer as oposed to the classic one he has in his Fluence.

This experience suggests Elon Musk is right when he says we won't miss it. It won't matter.
 
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In all honesty, how good is a human driver in most of your scenarios? (hint: most aren't very good in ideal driving conditions.)

:)Hey I take offense of this statement having driven for 49 years with a perfect driving record including no tickets. And that is driving in Massachusetts!!
Unfortunately, I still trail my older brother who has gone 58 years with a perfect record. I hope never to catch him:)

I drive a Prius occasionally, and you absolutely have to adjust the dimming knob literally every time you drive in the day or at night. There is no one setting that works in all conditions. It's actually quite annoying and I only drive the car once a month or so. Hell, I didn't even know cars had a dimmer until I encountered the Prius. Turns out my 1998 Camry has one too! Who woulda thunk!

Now, you talk about glare, but what about sun glare from the unprotected screen? Can any Model S owners chime in? I can't see my phone screen for *sugar* in the daytime.

Interesting since I've been driving a Prius V for four years and have never had to adjust the dimming knob. As I was writing this response I was trying to remember where the dimming is actually located.
 
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Experience from a portuguese guy of a Model 3-like central speedometer in a Renault Fluence ZE.


There was no need to move the head to look for the center speedometer, just to look right instead of looking down. He in fact stated it was easier and prefered to have this digital speedometer as oposed to the classic one he has in his Fluence.

This experience suggests Elon Musk is right when he says we won't miss it. It won't matter.
Thank you!
 
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It is a nice video and I appreciate the experiment.

I have a few comments: one is the comparison to a traditional speedometer - of course the correct comparison in any Tesla likely would be digital to digital, so that comparison is rather meaningless.

The second is, the camera is not where the eyes on the driver are but more to the right. It is thus impossible to use the video to experience this for yourself. In reality the speedometer is more to the right from the driver's eyes than the video makes it look like.

On the other hand, it would seem to me the tablet in the video is probably a little more to the right and forwards from the driver than the Model 3 screen.

That said, I don't doubt the driver himself. Or even Elon. I think this speedometer location can be perfectly workable for many people, especially just for a speedometer and some warning lights. How it works for more info than that, harder to say.

Then again, I'm equally sure it will be controversial. And I'm completely not convinced Tesla needed to have one more controversial thing in the Model 3 after the diminutive trunk opening. These just seem so unnecessary compromises for aesthetic effect...

What if they would have just a nice coupeish hatchback (large trunk opening) with a smaller than Model S digital instrument cluster (nice small screen with low-tech hardware behind it that is dime-a-dozen these days in cars) and, say, a little smaller mid-screen to compensate if need be for the cost. No controversy, no unnecessary compromise. It would have been good for acceptance, I'd wager. But they had to have their huge screen and massive glass roof... just like they had to have falcon wings and monopost second row...

Model S has no such compromises. It is still looks to be the only Tesla where design and signature obsessions haven't detracted from the basic goal of making a great normal car, not a weirdmobile.

Usual disclaimer: These estimations can and will change once final product is seen/experienced.
 
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I think @Alketi recently summarized it best, how this latest tweetstorm compares with what had been expected based on previous information regarding e.g. highly optioned versions being built first and the spaceship controls:
Very disappointing
The same hardware is used for the EAP option and it is used for the standard AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) and other emergency avoidance features that are present in every car (not an option).
Yes I'm aware just telling about why I wouldn't go for the full self drive option right now.
 
One of the main things I am concerned with is public perception of the car. It has to be beautiful , compelling , great performance affordable EV , and can't not have anything to strange.

This is a mass audience vehicle, designed to advance the transition to EV transportation.

I'll wait and see but a simple cluster and center screen (smaller than the S and ok landscape if they want) would have been. A better choice.
I doubt the setup will deter me or many on this forum from purchasing, but that's not the issue.
EV's are a tough sell as it is in most of the country, low fuel prices in my area make it especially tough, add in some wacky dash setup ? Why?
 
One of the main things I am concerned with is public perception of the car. It has to be beautiful , compelling , great performance affordable EV , and can't not have anything to strange.

This is a mass audience vehicle, designed to advance the transition to EV transportation.

I'll wait and see but a simple cluster and center screen (smaller than the S and ok landscape if they want) would have been. A better choice.
I doubt the setup will deter me or many on this forum from purchasing, but that's not the issue.
EV's are a tough sell as it is in most of the country, low fuel prices in my area make it especially tough, add in some wacky dash setup ? Why?

Completely agree.

While the falcon wings are a much bigger issue, this - and its effect on adoption - has certainly been discussed a lot on the Model X forum. Some agree, some disagree there is effect on adoption, but at the very least it is controversial.

Indeed, the negative effects of the weirdmobile has been discussed also on other Tesla forums many times, when talking about the pros of Model S (which is not one).

EV is already a hard sell. If there are things that will make it even harder, those should not be there.

If Tesla ends up shipping the Model 3 trunk pretty much as shown, what a huge missed opportunity just to give it that glass ceiling. Rear headroom could have been solved some other way. A big trunk opening is a massive benefit in much of the world, and a lack of, a major negative. Model S got this SO right, why has it been so hard for Tesla ever since... because they've had these other obsessions in the way...

And the dash. Even though one can get used to unusual or weird solutions on the dash, they can especially be very strong initial turnoffs. Every car with too "innovative" dashboards has faced resistance, even ridicule, because it is such a big thing. Some may have gone on to become notable classics, but mostly are just quirks of history.

If a person is already sceptical of an EV, don't give them other reasons to be wary of. Make the rest of the car familiar and issue-free. IMO Model 3 would have been an easier sell with a more normal instrument cluster solution and a more normal, Model S -like trunk opening. Now it is a bit of a weirdmobile, as is Model X...
 
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I assume that if there is a complete loss of power, regardless of who is driving, it will be a lot like driving a brick underwater while towing a oil tanker.

It'd be like driving a heavy car before power steering and assisted braking. It takes more effort, but it's very obviously manageable because people managed it for a very long time. And it happens now: people have accidentally turned their Gen 1 Volts off , or have had their Gen 2 Volts lose propulsion and been able to bring their cars safely to a stop.

An autonomous car without a back-up control system would, in the event of power loss, travel at speed in a straight line, gradually losing speed, until it hits something or comes to a stop.
 
:)Hey I take offense of this statement having driven for 49 years with a perfect driving record including no tickets. And that is driving in Massachusetts!!
Unfortunately, I still trail my older brother who has gone 58 years with a perfect record. I hope never to catch him:)

I have a few blemishes on my record that we'll chalk up to being young and cocky. LOL

But of all my infractions, most took place in Virginia, mostly because VA police don't like how us Massholes drive. ;)
 
If a person is already sceptical of an EV, don't give them other reasons to be wary of. Make the rest of the car familiar and issue-free.
So you think that the Model S central screen should not exist also? Or that autopilot should be removed too since no one was familiar with what AP1 proved to be capable of?
Why make things familiar just for the sake of being the same and stop innovating? Why not make them better instead of familiar?
A typical car has to me many unnecessary buttons and information available all the time that is completely useless and could be hidden in a menu, and that seems to be is a problem Model 3 is going to address.
The trunk well, I haven't seen in person, but it does not seem that small to me compared to other Sedans. But yes it could be better if it was more like an hatch.
 
This is what I don't get. Would it have HURT to put in a speedometer or some kind of display directly in front of the driver? The Tesla loyalists wouldn't have cared, and the skeptics would be satisfied. So why this decision? It can't possibly be about cost-saving. If it's truly about marketing the 3 as fully autonomous - that doesn't make sense. Regulations are not catching up to reality just yet. And AP2 isn't nearly ready. This is what upsets me the most - I understand you want change and I love change. But this just wasn't a smart idea. You're fundamentally changing a habit that the vast majority of people have that could easily be tied to safety.
 
...the camera is not where the eyes on the driver are but more to the right. It is thus impossible to use the video to experience this for yourself. In reality the speedometer is more to the right from the driver's eyes than the video makes it look like.

On the other hand, it would seem to me the tablet in the video is probably a little more to the right and forwards from the driver than the Model 3 screen.
Agree that this is not a perfect example, however, watching this video makes me even more concerned than I already was. :(

Hopefully the actual angle will be better and the UI not so distractingly cluttered.
 
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So you think that the Model S central screen should not exist also? Or that autopilot should be removed too since no one was familiar with what AP1 proved to be capable of?
Why make things familiar just for the sake of being the same and stop innovating? Why not make them better instead of familiar?
A typical car has to me many unnecessary buttons and information available all the time that is completely useless and could be hidden in a menu, and that seems to be is a problem Model 3 is going to address.

No, I don't personally think the big screen in Model S was mistake, nor do I think Autopilot was.

Look, I get that some of these things are judgement calls - and most are opinions. The big screen in Model S works and offers clear benefits, without sacrificing too much. It could have been controversial, but Tesla retained the instrument cluster and sufficient steering wheel controls, which makes all the difference in that context. I never thought it to be too controversial beforehand, never.

There are still annoyances such as adjusting some things while driving, can't do it without looking, but mostly it works. (As for Autopilot, there's a thread for that: Did Tesla lose focus by making the Model 3 an autonomous car instead of a great EV?)

But removal of the instrument cluster completely for the sake of cost-cutting, that is definitely not achieving the same level of ergonomics (that much is obvious already) nor is it a design-first decision. It will seem odd and it will be controversial amongst customers. And that is just one odd/controversial thing that Tesla could do without.

The trunk well, I haven't seen in person, but it does not seem that small to me compared to other Sedans. But yes it could be better if it was more like an hatch.

Yeah, so the point I am making is not that making a sedan is a bad idea necessarily. My point is: Tesla is not actually making a sedan, just like with Model S they may call it that, but they are pretty much making a hatchback (at least the prototype was a hatchback) where the hatch would normally be a great feature, but was compromised massively due to the desire to have an all-glass roof wrapping around it. So instead there remains a sort of stub of a hatch, assuming final version is much like the prototype.

So a questionable design/wow effect decision compromising usability massively. I get it that rear headroom has been rationalized as part of it, but I am not buying that some other solution would not have been found... Perhaps in the U.S. this will not be that big of a deal, but in Europe that trunk will be a disappointment - unless they fixed the question by making it a real hatchback. A big part of why Model S is such a relative hit is the massive trunk (and overall such a balanced design) and the big hatch is a big part of that appeal.

Tesla wanted a big, bold glass roof. Tesla wanted a big, big front screen. And sacrificed both the trunk and the instrument cluster usability for this goal and invited controversy that is, in my view, quite possibly very unnecessary. That is the pondering I am offering...

The big controversial thing they are already selling is the EV underneath, that will take some getting used to. Don't add more oddities...
 
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This is what I don't get. Would it have HURT to put in a speedometer or some kind of display directly in front of the driver? The Tesla loyalists wouldn't have cared, and the skeptics would be satisfied. So why this decision? It can't possibly be about cost-saving. If it's truly about marketing the 3 as fully autonomous - that doesn't make sense. Regulations are not catching up to reality just yet. And AP2 isn't nearly ready. This is what upsets me the most - I understand you want change and I love change. But this just wasn't a smart idea. You're fundamentally changing a habit that the vast majority of people have that could easily be tied to safety.

Elon Musk's jobsian stubborness?

It can be a blessing and a curse.
 
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