Elon Tweet: No 'significantly new consumer-facing technology' in Model 3

[Yggdrasill]

His tweet storm.

He says: and I quote.

The M3 will have less features
The M3 will have less power
The M3 will have less range
The M3 will have lesser technology
The M3 will not initially have dual motors
The M3 will not have 2 screens, but one
The M3 will not have the larger MS / MX battery options.
The M3 will never match the MS in acceleration
The M3 battery will be capped at 75kWh.

I'm going with facts here - without inserting speculation.

You're not quoting, you're paraphrasing.

And I think you are adding to the confusion by exaggerating what Musk said. Going previous tweets, we actually do know a fair amount about the specs of the Model 3 (to a significant degree of probability). Like:

- It will have ludicrous. (In other words, better acceleration than "Insane", which was 0-60 mph in 3.1 seconds. Combined with the information that it will be slower than the Model S, we know 0-60 mph will be done in 2.5-3.1 seconds for the top spec Model 3.)
- It will have towing.
- It will have RWD standard, AWD optional.
- It will have a base battery of less than 60 kWh, providing over 215 miles of range, and an upgraded battery with around 75 kWh. (That means the top spec will have a range around 300 miles.)
Etc.

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

It's in a better position than the Model 3, further away (so easier to focus to the road) - AND angled to the driver - not like a taxi meter display - for the purpose of the people in the back!!! The Model 3 display is at pretty much 45 degrees to the eye. Oh - and hopefully you won't have the sun bouncing off the screen from the side window too! That's why the Prius and all other cars set the screen into a recess!!!

Screw you guys, I don't want any binnacles or HUDs to distract me from typing angry responses to complaints about the center display ON my center display! That's some TMC synergy...

 

[googlepeakoil]

I think people will be pleasantly surprised with how Tesla integrates the landscape display with information for the driver. One display doesn't preclude the use of well designed windows. It is still larger then any other display excluding the S/S. Having information in the cluster behind the steering wheel is not nearly as effective as having that same information in the left hand top quadrant on the display. I drive a Prius V and once I got used to not looking for the dials and gauges behind the wheel I just hate driving any car that requires me to look thru the steering wheel. I don't care what information it could have. Would I like to see a well integrated HUD, sure but was never expecting Tesla to include that initially with the Model 3.

Isnt the Prius display at least:
1. in a recess - so it's not affected by daylight / reflections
2. a white on black led - to increase readability
3. limited / visible only to the driver.
4. set at a reasonable focal distance than a screen sticking in the side of your face.
5. and do you not also have a centre screen with the less important info on it?

The model 3 screen is like a taxi meter - but likely to reflect sunlight into your eyes than give you information.
No - the top left corner of a monitor is going to look rubbish.

I'll say it again - I hope the early feedback from the Tesla employee / early customers forces a change of heart on Elon. This 1 screen only is a compromise too far. A $10k car has >1 screen. It's not a cost issue. It's an Elon thinks we want a taxi driving experience. He's looking 5 years in the future. Doesn't care about "driving experience".

 

[googlepeakoil]

If they just do this everyone can have their way...

Haha - does it move left and right as well as up and down - then you can put it behind the wheel

 

[Garlan Garner]

You're not quoting, you're paraphrasing.

And I think you are adding to the confusion by exaggerating what Musk said. Going previous tweets, we actually do know a fair amount about the specs of the Model 3 (to a significant degree of probability). Like:

- It will have ludicrous. (In other words, better acceleration than "Insane", which was 0-60 mph in 3.1 seconds. Combined with the information that it will be slower than the Model S, we know 0-60 mph will be done in 2.5-3.1 seconds for the top spec Model 3.)
- It will have towing.
- It will have RWD standard, AWD optional.
- It will have a base battery of less than 60 kWh, providing over 215 miles of range, and an upgraded battery with around 75 kWh. (That means the top spec will have a range around 300 miles.)
Etc.

Read it for yourself.

Elon Musk Had A Lot To Say About Model 3, And Some People Won't Be Happy About It
Elon Musk Had A Lot To Say About Model 3, And Some People Won't Be Happy About It

Read both pages.

Towing?
AWD optional? <----- when?

Those are the selling points?

 

[Yggdrasill]

Read it for yourself.

Elon Musk Had A Lot To Say About Model 3, And Some People Won't Be Happy About It


Towing?
AWD optional? <----- when?

Those are the selling points?

I have read it. I read the tweets as they were being posted.

Towing: Elon Musk on Twitter
Optional AWD: Elon Musk on Twitter

There's a bunch more tweets that have been posted over the last year or so. I see no reason to disregard them even if you aren't aware of them.

 

[gregincal]

I'm not speculating at all. I'm not comparing at all.

I'm listing what ELON said. That's not speculation. Elon said that it is a lesser car. Those are HIS WORDS. That's not MY opinion.

Elon either read this forum or listened to folks saying that their expectation was that the Model 3 was going to be a little MS. He said "Whoahhh everyone" Pump the brakes a bit folks. The Model 3 is not a little MS. Its a lesser car.

I would be highly disappointed making my car payments every month thinking that I had a little MS in my garage when I "really don't". I hear, read, and experience MS owners saying that they wake up every morning with a wonderful drive to go get in their cars and drive. I'm hoping that will be the same experience for Model 3 owners, however I would like to go into this purchase with my eyes wide open. I don't want to look into my garage 4 months from purchase asking myself ....... what did I really buy? Is this 5th payment worth it? Or did I get engulfed in fandom?

Sure, it's a lesser car, why would expect any different, it's less expensive. That is not in any way whatsoever close to a far inferior car, which were your words in the post I was originally responding to. There is no more reason to believe now that you won't wake up every morning with a wonderful drive than there was when you made the reservation. I have always said that I won't buy the car until I do a test drive, but I have enough faith in Tesla that the car will have all the aspects of a Tesla that I like. If I didn't, I wouldn't have made the reservation in the first place. If I'm disappointed, all I did was loan Tesla $1000 for a couple years. I just don't see anything in the tweets that makes me feel much different than previously, and I certainly don't see any competition I'm interested in.

 

[stopcrazypp]

But can we really conclude that? I get it that Tesla has grabbed an impressive portion of the high-end market in some places, especially if the comparison is the Audi A8/7 Series level, though as Musk says the comparison really is one step below that (Elon said 5/6 Series). The competition sells a heck of a lot more BMW 5s and Audi A6s than Tesla sells the Model S. Regionally speaking, Tesla is really struggling in some markets to create demand. They have been shown to having to pull all kinds of demand levers in past quarters to grow this. It is not impossible the spartan nature of the car is slowing down adoption in some of these places. That, plus other negatives Tesla has compared to the competition.

What Tesla has done, is offered the first large-battery EV and some people have been shown to be willing to make significant sacrifices in other areas of the car to get that, including not just features but also e.g. price, by buying up from the Priuses etc. of the world. There is no argument that there was (and still is) an untapped EV market that Tesla is the first party to offer a compelling choice to. This will continue to sell the Model 3 as well, no doubt. The first sort of future-proofed autonomous driving car will also gain them some additional customers.

The bigger question is, once that initial demand is exhausted, what will the rest of the market be willing to overlook after that? And more importantly, what will the market be willing to overlook once competition - that quite possibly has these other features - arrives with choices? It is no wonder I-Pace and Audi e-tron quattro are generating interest even Tesla owners here on TMC, because people expect them to do certain things better than Tesla. It shows that as much as we like the EV experience, those pains of what else we are missing do not quite go away.

Well I'm talking about in the same price class, not one price class down (which the 5s/A6s would be). The S seems to be selling well for a car in its price range (same can't said of other EVs).

 

[shokunin]

The M3 does not appear to be simply a cheaper car. It appears to be a lesser car.

Its NOT going to be spaceship like.
Its NOT going to be mesmerizing as it was described in the past.

I want to buy a TESLA - not just an EV. Some folks understand what I'm saying.

Did Elon ever say it was going to be on par with an S and X and the only difference being 20% smaller and half the price? It's half the price, it has to be lesser in some regards.

Maybe a sparse interior is spaceship like to Elon and if one would know what a spaceship interior would look like, it'd be Elon.

So what are the qualities that make a Tesla a Tesla and not just "an EV"?

For me,
Styling (compared to other EV)
Power and Performance (compared to anything else.. at least for straight line acceleration)
Drivetrain and traction control.
Single pedal driving, regen.
Supercharging
Auto Pilot
Touchscreen interface that is continually evolving/de-evolving through OTA updates.
Technology all around...
Trunk/Frunk and tons of space

Where does Tesla suck at (IMO):

Overall interior amenities (cubbies/storage)
Luxury plushness/couture of other Audi a7/a8, BMW 7, S-class, etc.
3rd party Infotainment, (CarPlay, Android Auto)
Performance Tuning (aka lighter brakes, better suspension tuning, etc) when you buy the Performance version.
Navigation functionality (give us an option for Waze).
Too many promises of "future" potential.

I don't think the Model 3 will be "lesser" driving experience. Some people have been disappointed since the get-go on the Model S interior and features and the Model 3 will continue that tradition. Back in 2011/2012 it was about door pockets, cupholders, center console, seat-back storage, where to hang your coat, etc.

 

[gregincal]

AWD optional? <----- when?

AWD is optional on the S, and Elon has said for a long time it will be optional on the 3. As far as when any individual will get their Model 3, we have no idea. All we know is that it is based on some complicated stew of factors like when you reserved, where you live, whether you are a previous owner and what you configure (as well as exactly when they start making them and what the ramp is like). Personally I'm just going to wait until I finally have the choice of whether to buy the car or not and worry about it then. In the meantime it's interesting to make informed speculation about what the car will be like.

 

[ThosEM]

Hooray; they learned a lesson from Model X. Look for a HUD in your next Model S or X.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I have read it. I read the tweets as they were being posted.

Towing: Elon Musk on Twitter
Optional AWD: Elon Musk on Twitter

There's a bunch more tweets that have been posted over the last year or so. I see no reason to disregard them even if you aren't aware of them.

yep

Elon Musk

✔ @elonmusk


And, of course, it will have more cowbells.

4:55 PM - 3 Apr 2016

• https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=716745898202685441
• 
  1,605 1,605 Retweets
• 
  5,634 5,634 likes

 

[eisbock]

Elon Musk has publicly compared the Model 3 to the Audi A4, so that is a valid comparison from both Tesla's point of view as well as from the $35,00 price-point.

I think at this point we should let go of that 2-year-old Elon tweet. Elon is a salesman and will say whatever it takes to bump the stock or build hype (in this case decrease hype). You should not believe every word he says on Twitter. I mean, he did say highly optioned cars would be built first, no?

Elon has not made any comparisons to competitor luxury vehicles for quite some time now. In fact, the only comparisons he's made recently have been to taxis. The Model 3 is designed to compete with a taxi.

As if the poor taxi unions don't have enough problems with Uber and Lyft...

 

[Alketi]

- It will have ludicrous. (In other words, better acceleration than "Insane", which was 0-60 mph in 3.1 seconds. Combined with the information that it will be slower than the Model S, we know 0-60 mph will be done in 2.5-3.1 seconds for the top spec Model 3.)

You're making an assumption that Ludicrous is an absolute, and not a relative term. That's never been made clear by Tesla. In fact, Ludicrous X was the same as Insane S (3.2s), so the the more likely scenario is that Ludicrous mode just represents a boost over the P-version's natural acceleration.

All we know is that the 3 apparently won't run an 11s 1/4 mile, if Elon's response is to be believed/interpreted at face value.

 

[eisbock]

On a more serious note (than Neuralink), Elon just tweeted a reply to a 'begging request' for a central speedometer (meaning centered on the driver) with the response 'No'.



Nick G‏ @nickg_uk
@elonmusk But but but... Can we PLEASE have a central speedometer in the 3 for those of us who don't want autopilot /beg


in reply to @nickg_uk


Elon Musk‏ @elonmusk
@nickg_uk No

harsh

Slowly but surely, Elon is dashing all our hopes and dreams. Please hatchback? Okay fine, how about at least a bigger trunk opening? What about faster acceleration? Ugh, more range? HUD? P? D?

And now we're at the point where we're begging for basic car features like a speedometer and still Elon says no. What else won't this car have in the name of "autonomy"?

Maybe the grand reveal will be that none of the cars are available for purchase and you must rent them from Tesla, because "do you buy a taxi?"

 

[googlepeakoil]

I doubt it but that's ok with me. Never expected a sub 3 second.

Probably won't be sub 5 as it'll Osbourne the lower end S's too much.
If it's sub 5 it'll be at an amazing premium that'll put the price at S level - close to $70k.

 

[eisbock]

The Model 3 is more like the iPhone SE. Smaller and crippled to make it cheaper / more affordable to the masses.

The SE is not crippled, it has the same advanced hardware, just in a smaller package. Bigger is not always better.

A more appropriate comparison would be trying to sell people an iPhone Shuffle without any screen at all because "why do you need a screen when you can just ask Siri?"

 

[eisbock]

The M3 does not appear to be simply a cheaper car. It appears to be a lesser car.

I was thinking that the option of great features such as the wonderful glass roof and 20" wheels and such....that the design was going be very attractive on the inside as well as the outside. Well, I haven't officially seen it yet, however its being described by Elon is a far inferior car than the MS and MX.

Its NOT going to be spaceship like.
Its NOT going to be mesmerizing as it was described in the past.

Fine.

Now, Price. How much is this lesser car worth?

I hope Tesla isn't just selling an EV in the M3.

I want to buy a TESLA - not just an EV. Some folks understand what I'm saying.

What's incredibly frustrating is that there's no reason for it to be a lesser car. Elon has gone off the deep end with this autonomy thing and his vision is quickly spiraling out of control.

Just because the car can drive itself doesn't mean you need to chop off its metaphorical balls too. Why can't the car drive itself while I observe? Why must you limit my ability to interact with the vehicle just because it's driving itself? Why can't I make the choice to turn off displays if I do not wish to view them? Why does autonomous driving have to be as boring as it sounds?

I feel like this car is a representation of the future as seen in the film Equilibrium where emotion is illegal. I sit down in my bland, inexpressive car with its monotone, flat interior without so much as cracking an indifferent sigh. With a deadpan look in my glossed-over eyes, I slowly speak the words "destination--work". I sit still for the duration of the silent ride, the fire in my spirit growing dimmer with each safe acceleration and adequate reduction in speed when turning corners until the car makes its way to the onramp. As it slowly accelerates to a safe speed, the windows darken because there's no need for me to see outside my car if I'm not driving it. What minimal lighting and displays are present also go dark and I am left in quiet, pitch-black solitude until I arrive at my destination.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I think at this point we should let go of that 2-year-old Elon tweet. Elon is a salesman and will say whatever it takes to bump the stock or build hype (in this case decrease hype). You should not believe every word he says on Twitter. I mean, he did say highly optioned cars would be built first, no?

Elon has not made any comparisons to competitor luxury vehicles for quite some time now. In fact, the only comparisons he's made recently have been to taxis. The Model 3 is designed to compete with a taxi.

Time flies, but friday isn't that far in the past: Elon Musk on Twitter

"Sorta. Model 3 is like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4. Model S is like BMW 5 and 6 series, but much faster, more storage space + Autopilot"

 

[eisbock]

Time flies, but friday isn't that far in the past: Elon Musk on Twitter

"Sorta. Model 3 is like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4. Model S is like BMW 5 and 6 series, but much faster, more storage space + Autopilot"

Touche my good man, but I fear this tweet isn't a comparison for competition purposes, but rather to show that Tesla is creating "classes" within their lineup, hence the "iPhone 2 vs 3" tweet that preceded this one. The Model 3 will be different from the Model S like how BMW 3 is different from BMW 5.

Plain and simple, you don't compete by doing stuff that people don't like. You don't compete by giving people a reason to go to the competition when it's completely avoidable. Tesla is trying to innovate to blow the competition away. They don't want to merely surpass, they want to shatter; however, I think they're making some mistakes. It's not radical or ground-breaking to simply delete/ignore features from the competition. You improve on them, or better yet offer a ground-breaking alternative. There is nothing ground-breaking or appealing about dropping the dash screen.

It's analagous to BMW getting rid of the nav screen under the guise of directions being spoken aloud, and then only to reveal that spoken directions aren't even on the table. So now you have no nav at all. And then BMW comes to you and says, "There's still a solution for nav--just use your phone."