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I understand that - what you're talking about is being part of a community and wanting to discuss more things inside of that community than the original purpose. And I think that's absolutely normal. I also tend to have broad interests, and in fact, the majority of my passionate interests are most certainly outside of Tesla. You've been here since 2012, I've been here since 2014. We've developed some kind of relationship with the membership so I understand your point.

All of that said, there has always been a rule against discussion of politics at TMC. It's in the original Terms of Service, linked at the bottom of every page. It's really, really hard to manage, but it's a valuable rule because discussions of politics are likely but not guaranteed to devolve into ideological separation. That causes rifts within a community and can actually harm the flow of dialogue and get in the way of productive discussion. I've seen it happen many times since I started moderating a few years ago. Sometimes, discussions of politics with regard to EV tax credits or other pertinent topics are allowed to run their course, and they resolve well. Sometimes they don't, and they need moderation. It's a challenge to do it properly and to do it fairly, but I can tell you that the group of volunteer moderators on this forum are extremely thoughtful in the moderator discussion area. Speaking of a community that one respects, the thought that is put into some moderation decisions can be really inspiring. I'm sure it doesn't always look that way on the outside, but I can assure you that for an uncompensated job, there is an awful lot of work going into doing the "right thing."

I don't make the rules, I just enforce them as well as I can and provide feedback to the admins about how things are going. I think if we had a thread where politics were discussed, or just removed the politics rule in general, I'd find this a much less interesting place to visit. Human beings like to use heuristics to determine in-groups and out-groups, and I'm willing to bet that a not-insignificant portion of the membership would start to categorize other members subconsciously based on those political discussions. That's not the kind of community I prefer to engage with.

If you disagree with me, and I'm sure it's entirely reasonable to do so, you may want to contact the admins and make a suggestion about changing the rules. It's quite possible I'm in the minority here.
I saw first-hand some of the result of the decision-making by moderators you refer to on the EV tax credits. We can only imagine the discussion it took to work through those since it was done behind the scenes. I’ve also seen decisions rendered when the cases were obviously more clear-cut and the discussion simply had no benefit to anyone and had to go.
From the outside, I have never seen a decision I disagreed with. Some took awhile, but the moderators it looks like have a lot to do.
The EV tax credit thing was surely a tough case because it clearly had a lot of politics going on, in part because it was rolled into a signature bill for one side and the other side, of course put a lot of effort into hammering that bill. Some here chose sides based on that. Then other members here, more or less above the fray, managed to try to discuss things on their merits, and it was pretty complicated stuff that brought in union actions which itself is politically charged. It seems like the forum dealt with it as best it could.
But yes, if moderation, or the no-politics rule goes away so will a lot of discussion of fact that most of us are here for.
The EV thing will maybe come up again a little... not much... and this Twitter thing will go on... and Biden will continue to struggled to mention Tesla when he should and those will be bumps in the road. But with the moderators approaching the rule as they have, we’ll work through it;.
 
@ohmman I agree with you 1000%. If no politics are the rule then so be it. It is that way on many forums I participate in, mostly car and a few others. The bigger problem is when you don't have a nice mix of moderators and they allow political statements that sku one way yet the political statement that sku the other way are then censored. I have seen it happen plenty and usually doesn't end well for the thread, forum or the members.
 
@ohmman I agree with you 1000%. If no politics are the rule then so be it. It is that way on many forums I participate in, mostly car and a few others. The bigger problem is when you don't have a nice mix of moderators and they allow political statements that sku one way yet the political statement that sku the other way are then censored. I have seen it happen plenty and usually doesn't end well for the thread, forum or the members.
Truer words were never spoken. Good on ya.
 
We are trying to keep this pointless talk in this thread for now, until it's locked (I'm guessing shortly).

If readers disagree, I'd love to hear how successful you've been at changing the ideology of another anonymous person on the Internet - specifically, on a car forum.

My non-official-moderator opinion? Posters need to get over their need to share their ideological tribe when they're at the Tesla Motors Club. Talk about Tesla or Tesla-adjacent things. We all get off on a tangent sometimes (and I'm just as guilty of this as the rest of the members), but doing our best to focus on our commonality here - Teslas - is probably the best way to make this a productive community.

I feel for you and the other moderators. Elon’s recent tweets and stick figures won’t help.

From now on, I will try to keep politics out of my posts, as much as possible. (After this one, sorry) Like you said, no one is going to change anyones ideology or religion online.

I just don’t like the way our country is headed though. Some say we are in the middle of a civil war already.

Elon, being the leader of several commercial, profit making (and very innovative) enterprises would have done well to just keep his politics hidden. He could not control himself!

Now let the chips fall where they may.

Done discussing this.
 

Strong words - they will be having a few heated debates on this in the cancelling office at Twitter tonight...
It's hard to tell if either Elon is just pulling the wings off the Twitter fly or I was correct here:

FSD Beta 10.11

I'm beginning to wonder if there's something wrong mentally with Elon Musk. His public statements are getting more and more erratic. I used to think it was all just theater, but now I'm not so sure. The Board isn't to remove him as CEO unless he gets much worse. James Murdoch, the most often...

It was worth the original downvotes.
 
Man you guys are really searching. So EM is in trouble and he "doesn't know what he is getting into" because a person is standing in front of a Tesla reporting.

You all need a hobby. EM will be fine stop worrying about him.
No one's worried about Elon. They are worried about his company as shareholders. Why is that so hard for you to see?

Republicans in general overwhelming oppose EVs while Dems are much much more open to them. Just look at any EV thread on Facebook or polls on this subject for proof. This could become a serious problem for Tesla someday from a demand standpoint.

Republicans in the Tesla community are abundant but the Tesla community (investors or fans) is a tiny tiny niche.
 
No one's worried about Elon. They are worried about his company as shareholders. Why is that so hard for you to see?

Republicans in general overwhelming oppose EVs while Dems are much much more open to them. Just look at any EV thread on Facebook or polls on this subject for proof. This could become a serious problem for Tesla someday from a demand standpoint.

Republicans in the Tesla community are abundant but the Tesla community (investors or fans) is a tiny tiny niche.
Again don't worry about Tesla. It will be just fine. Just wait for his next earnings report and all the other past reports. I think he knows how to run a company far better then the social media you follow and listen to. For those that are worried then stop belly-aching and go sell your shares. It is a free country. Go buy Starbucks and Nike or something.
 
Again don't worry about Tesla. It will be just fine. Just wait for his next earnings report and all the other past reports. I think he knows how to run a company far better then the social media you follow and listen to. For those that are worried then stop belly-aching and go sell your shares. It is a free country. Go buy Starbucks and Nike or something.
This is such an incredibly ignorant comment and shows you are probably not an actual investor in any real capacity. You literally implied I choose my investments based on if the companies are aligned with my political views which couldn't be farther from the truth and has absolutely nothing to do with my concern here. That's just cop out statement as I'm trying to express the obvious concern that the CEO of Tesla is turning off his primary customer base. And even worse. His employees. Im in leadership and I specifically avoid politics with my direct reports for a reason. Musk is not acting professional in any capacity when he is. Oh and please. Stop with the just sell your shares if you can't handle it nonsense. I've been investing in Tesla since 2012 and there are reasons I am here.
 
This is such an incredibly ignorant comment and shows you are probably not an actual investor in any real capacity. You literally implied I choose my investments based on if the companies are aligned with my political views which couldn't be farther from the truth and has absolutely nothing to do with my concern here. That's just cop out statement as I'm trying to express the obvious concern that the CEO of Tesla is turning off his primary customer base. And even worse. His employees. Im in leadership and I specifically avoid politics with my direct reports for a reason. Musk is not acting professional in any capacity when he is. Oh and please. Stop with the just sell your shares if you can't handle it nonsense. I've been investing in Tesla since 2012 and there are reasons I am here.
Funny how the left is in such an uproar over this but the left, maybe not you, were perfectly ok with all the CEO’s and big business taking political sides with the left and applauding them for “taking a stand” Enjoy your investments and you know what happens when you assume but then again I am sure you are an expert. I am sure you are a great leader with your one sided views.
 
People posting insane ideas are being curtailed on both the left and the right, it's just that more of them are coming from the right now. For example anti vax nonsense originated on the left long before covid but the right took it to new levels. There are still some extreme lefties posting insanity and they'll be curtailed as well. I have no issue with companies limiting who their customers are. If you own a business and someone comes in shouting like a nut and disturbing the rest of your customers you have every right to remove them and never let them back in. This is no different. It's not the government controlling your free speech. Elon is suddenly catering to a vocal minority and turning off the majority of potential Tesla customers who don't agree with that minority. It's a simple numbers game.
 
People posting insane ideas are being curtailed on both the left and the right, it's just that more of them are coming from the right now. For example anti vax nonsense originated on the left long before covid but the right took it to new levels. There are still some extreme lefties posting insanity and they'll be curtailed as well. I have no issue with companies limiting who their customers are. If you own a business and someone comes in shouting like a nut and disturbing the rest of your customers you have every right to remove them and never let them back in. This is no different. It's not the government controlling your free speech. Elon is suddenly catering to a vocal minority and turning off the majority of potential Tesla customers who don't agree with that minority. It's a simple numbers game.
So then why do you have an issue? You state above you have no problem with companies limiting who their customers are by taking a side. Later though you seem frustrated (maybe you don’t care) that Elon is catering to one side. So are you for companies taking a side or not?

BTW no one knows what will happen to Tesla and Tesla stock based on him now “appearing” (although people have a short or selective memory he has always been right leaning) to be “catering” to the right. You may see a huge influx of purchasing power (plenty of it on the “minority” side as you call it) and the stock could skyrocket. It is the left that thinks this is all a bad thing yet no one has any clue what will actually happen.
 
I'm for companies limiting disinformation on their platforms and kicking out disruptive customers, that is not "taking a side". What I think is negative for Tesla is Elon leaning into the loony minority which the simple numbers show do not have the purchasing power of the majority. If the majority develops negative connotations for the brand it could be a net loss for the company. The problem is anyone with a modicum of social awareness could have garnered increased support on the right without losing it on the left and had an overall net gain. Elon's genius in technology and engineering does not translate into social engineering. Whatever he does with Twitter will probably not be all that radical but the way he's positioning himself makes it seem as if it will be and the damage is already being done.
 
Funny how the left is in such an uproar over this but the left, maybe not you, were perfectly ok with all the CEO’s and big business taking political sides with the left and applauding them for “taking a stand” Enjoy your investments and you know what happens when you assume but then again I am sure you are an expert. I am sure you are a great leader with your one sided views.
What? Are those CEOs getting in fights on twitter with politicians and posting memes that fringe right wingers use to troll on Facebook? No.
I love how you finish your comment out with another jab that makes zero sense. I'm sure I'm a great leader with one sided views? My whole point was that in leadership you dont share your political side. LMAO. Dude you just do not get it.

Elon Musk's behavior lately has been extreme political behavior is new at this level. He may very well drive away the normal people that just want a phone from Tim cook who doesn't constantly barf his views with memes all over his customers and just wants to sell to everyone.
 
What? Are those CEOs getting fights in twitter with politicians and posting memes that fringe right wingers use to troll on Facebook? No.
I love how you finish your comment out with another jab that makes zero sense. I'm sure I'm a great leader with one sided views? My whole point was that in leadership you dont share your political side. LMAO. Dude you just do not get it.

Elon Musk's behavior lately has been extreme political behavior is new at this level. He may very well drive away the normal people that just want a phone from Tim cook who doesn't constantly barf his views with memes all over his customers and just wants to sell to everyone.
Goin2Dirt does have something of a point in that if what is going on continues, it will inevitably cause some on the far right to consider EVs, but the undercurrent of opposition to them on the right funded mainly by the oil industry -- you know the family name -- is far far too strong. They’ll applaud Elon for his positions etc but that isn’t going to translate to a LOT of sales. Tiny trickle at best.
The only silver lining about this, if there is one, is the timing, Tesla has pushed EVs far enough into the mainstream that it can’t really slow the momentum among consumers even if he manages to discourage a substantial number of potential Tesla customers with partisan silliness.
 
For those interested, this particular podcast episode of Hidden Brain discusses how brands advertise our personal identity and in-group. I think it's really pertinent to this discussion for a couple of reasons. First, Tesla has been a unique car brand in that for some people it was felt to advertise a type of environmental ethic, which overlaps with a particular part of the political spectrum. Second, Elon Musk is, in many ways, the harbinger of the brand's ethic. The two are inextricably linked (at least at the current time and the foreseeable future), so Elon's actions also reflect on the brand and therefore the owners of the brand.

It seems likely that the dichotomy between the original identity being telegraphed by brand ownership and the potentially contrasting identity being telegraphed by Elon in recent months has caused the difficulty we're seeing at this time. It also might be helpful for those trying to understand why current brand owners, who potentially fell into the former category, are wringing their hands a little at the idea that they might be telegraphing a new message that doesn't align with their personal identities.

It's a decent listen if anyone cares.
 
So many people making baseless speculations, are there ANY indication Elon Musk's past behavior (for example during early covid) affected Tesla's sales? Let's see some numbers, otherwise you're just talking out of your behind.

Also don't overestimate your side's potential impact on Tesla sales, Tesla is a global company, nobody outside US cares about your particular political quirks, and US is only 18% or so of the global market, and your half represents less than 10% of Tesla's market.

And if you think companies like Apple doesn't have a political leaning that is quantifiable by numbers (such as their donation towards a particular party), you're living inside an echo chamber.
 
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