JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Apologies, this was meant for the thread in general.
Elon needs people to call him out on this crap, not more "yes....persons."
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
- Status
Elon needs people to call him out on this crap, not more "yes....persons."
It's not anti-trans to get things wrong. It's not anti-trans if little kids don't fully understand this - it's OK. It IS anti-trans to actively make fun of trans people and the pronouns they prefer. That's the difference. Elon is an adult. And I know people that have Asperger's and they're kind because they choose to be. Just like anyone else.
Yeah I also do this. I am okay with doing it, but I dislike being forced to do it and I see a problem with the bullying that happens to people who refuse to do it. Usually I don't dislike it enough to make a fuss about it, I am not a very combative IRL. I do find the dictatorship of the small minority to be an interesting philosophical problem, I have had to eat at vegan restaurants so many times when going out with group of friends. Enough that I sometimes try to argue the case for the people who decide to not play along, but mostly online or to people I know who can handle disagreement without getting emotional.
SDRick
Active Member
When I was growing up we were taught the little ditty "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"
That probably would not trend very well today?
That probably would not trend very well today?
Nobody is forcing you to do anything. So let me ask you this. Are you ok if someone refers to you as She or Her?
SDRick
Active Member
How about you? Are you okay if someone refers to you as She or Her?
BitJam
Active Member
Yes, but this was in response to someone asking him to stop bullying trans people. In addition, Elon gave his irrational excuse for why he was doing it. His view was that his mocking of pronouns was justified. He was asked to change a specific behavior on Twitter and he replied that he was not going to suppress is views. I find it hard to believe that you honestly think this meant anything other than he plans to continue the behavior he was asked to change.
Of course he didn't say "I'm going to continue to bully trans people" but that was clearly implied by what he said. It wasn't "no comment" it wasn't "I will think about it" it was a clear rejection of the request to stop harming the guy's daughter.
I completely agree with you! Compelled speech is wrong. Bullying is wrong. But this does not excuse Musk's own bullying behavior. Nor does it excuse him for not agreeing to change his behavior when it was shown that it was causing harm.
If Musk was bullying people into using preferred pronouns, or bullying people in some other way, I would probably be just as upset.
No I wouldn't be. That's my point. Just like a trans person may not be comfortable by someone calling them She/Her when that's not who they are.
Jordan Peterson became famous as Canada were forcing people to:
And there is woman in Norway risking jail for saying that biological males cannot be lesbians.
But yeah, my name is actually gender neutral so it has happened. And no I don't really care, would find it a bit strange, but would not be upset.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
If someone is named Martha but they prefer to be called Marty is that a problem? Are you being "bullied" if they ask you to call them by their nickname, even though it's not their "official" name?
SDRick
Active Member
Perhaps I am different then. If someone called me She/Her or even Them I would think that would be their problem, not mine.
italian bread
Member
This reminds me of a similar story a while back. A college football star came out as gay and it was widely talked about. A famous old-school sports caster said he didn’t understand homosexuality but that it didn’t matter if he understood it or not, he could accept that the young athlete was gay and it was no skin off his nose.
Same thing with pronouns. Thank you @mach-edriver for summarizing it so well.
My kid is both trans and asd (fwiw Asperger’s is not used as a diagnosis anymore). Interestingly there is actually a strong correlation between the two because often what asd does is make the person question or see through social constructions (like gender) and say, “this doesn’t apply to me.”
Bet TSLA
Active Member
The "idea" seems to be coming up with rationalizations for being disrespectful and rude. Of course Elon has the "right" to be rude, but it's just pathetic for him to insist that it's important or essential to conversation. Nobody is "forcing" him to do anything.
And if he continues, the "pronoun" people will be using for him is a**hole.
Last edited:
It’s better to peddle your use of Wikipedia some place where Japanese speakers don’t frequent - you’ve a better chance of not being called out for being バカヤロウ or worse.
Japanese can be pronoun-dropping, 場合によって, or not. Personal pronouns like 彼 and 彼女 absolutely have their place in everyday and in classical Japanese. A suggestion: do not rely on Noam Chomsky - he didn’t know the language.
Back to English: sure, it evolves, as do all tongues. But the ensconcement of and only of masculine, feminine and neuter personal pronouns as a key feature of what now is modern English occurred so many centuries ago that it effectively predates not only incunabula, but the earliest Anglo Saxon codices of any sort. The creation of alternative pronouns is absolutely bound with the mere decades-long blossoming of alternative genders, a feature so dominantly found in the wealthiest parts of this planet that the natural, wholly-expected societal impulse is to reject their incursion into mainstream language. It is most absolutely not an “old white male” phenomenon, as some have called it.
Is it the single most important problem facing humanity, to paraphrase a recent statement somewhat making the rounds? Forbid it, Almighty God. I’d put it right up there at about 11,897th among the top ten thousand, though….
Don’t think that’s a problem. If they ask to be called Master that might be a problem, not sure how some black people feel about calling a white person that. Maybe some would be okay with that, but don’t think we should bully the ones who prefer not to…
I really think it just boils down to how we perceive the world. You being in the alps, and having a more homogenious racial make up of society around you, things that are strange/but used in normal talk/comments could be viewed offensively even though you and everyone around you has sorta normalized stuff that could be very negative. Like that Purdue Northwest racial comment, black imagery, sexual harrassment comments or other racial stuff blurted out, it may not be a big deal to some and everyone laughs, but to the affected groups, it's probably a pretty bad thing.
I don't get the whole pronoun thing personally neither, but it doesn't hurt me and I'll just go with whatever people want to simply not be a jerk. Elon saying he'll stick to his guns till his empire collapses means he's just out of touch and good riddance if Twitter/TSLA just collapses cause he simply doesn't care.
If you don't get it, then don't jump in and make things worst fighting some social justice warrior crusade for something sorta pointless.
Heh, I think it's ARs now and verbal bullying is the worst I think. It's one thing to get in a fight in the old days, but a lot of bullied folks just shoot up schools now (don't bully people).
I thought it was "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." I think Elon has a harder time handling hurtful words actually and no one really likes it.
- Status
