Emergency Lane Departure - False Positives

[Incredulocious]

I'm guessing if we could answer these questions, Tesla would hire us all!

Seriously though, road conditions and weather and everything present quite a lot of variables to contend with; I do software as my real job and though none of it is as scary as self driving safety systems, bugs and unintended consequences show up ..

Yes, long time software engineer/architect here too which adds to my curiosity in understanding what variables are causing only some folks to experience false positives in what sound like similar circumstances.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don’t experience LDA warnings either though (without of course trying to make it happen, which I haven’t) and my expectation is that the LDA warning setting would not prevent an ELDA intervention, given how the feature is described.

I don’t think it is quite that simple. Assist apparently will provide tiny gentle corrections sometimes well before you get to the line, with more significant corrections when you are closer. Whereas “warn” tends to wait until you hit the line or get close. The threshold is not the same (which really is not surprising of course).

You’d really just have to experiment with it to see what I mean.

When I have warn on I don’t get activation at all. With assist it is not uncommon to get a very gentle assist (not to be confused with corrections, which can be quite a bit more obvious). At least, that is my impression of how it works. It seems to have evolved a bit so saying how it “is” is a moving target.

 

[Incredulocious]

I don’t think it is quite that simple. Assist apparently will provide tiny gentle corrections sometimes well before you get to the line, with more significant corrections when you are closer. Whereas “warn” tends to wait until you hit the line or get close. The threshold is not the same (which really is not surprising of course).

You’d really just have to experiment with it to see what I mean.

When I have warn on I don’t get activation at all. With assist it is not uncommon to get a very gentle assist (not to be confused with corrections, which can be quite a bit more obvious). At least, that is my impression of how it works. It seems to have evolved a bit so saying how it “is” is a moving target.

That’s very interesting since I never thought to try “assist” mode. I wonder then if this setting does affect how active ELDA is as well. Would be interesting to hear if folks with frequent, unexpected ELDA interactions have LDA in this mode and if downgrading to “warn” would help them.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

That’s very interesting since I never thought to try “assist” mode. I wonder then if this setting does affect how active ELDA is as well. Would be interesting to hear if folks with frequent, unexpected ELDA interactions have LDA in this mode and if downgrading to “warn” would help them.

Doubt it...ELDA will go off (apparently) even when you are signaling. I haven’t had an LDA assist when I am signaling (perhaps it can happen but I haven’t had it happen).

In fact, I’d kind of expect fewer interventions of ELDA when you have LDA Assist on, since it will tend to prompt you to stay centered more often. But you’d likely get ELDA interventions either way, for the people in situations where ELDA false triggers are hard to avoid. All speculation from me since I’ve never had one.

 

[Richt]

Doesn't AP drive at the speed you set, or slower to match traffic? Do you really expect it to go faster than you said is allowable?

Hmm. Good point. We normally toggle up the speed on a pass. You can also set the NOA to different settings so you have enough differential speed when you pass if you don’t want to do that.

 

[SDKoala]

Same as before I think:
View attachment 434713

That's weird. You're positive the firmware is 24.4? That's not how mine looks and ELDA stays off permanently.

Maybe different because you're in Switzerland?

 

[Msjulie]

@p-f-g I wonder if @SDKoala is right about location though that is unexpected ..

 

[p-f-g]

Maybe different because you're in Switzerland?

Maybe...

And it's 24.4

 

[chinnam3]

Doubt it...ELDA will go off (apparently) even when you are signaling. I haven’t had an LDA assist when I am signaling (perhaps it can happen but I haven’t had it happen).

In fact, I’d kind of expect fewer interventions of ELDA when you have LDA Assist on, since it will tend to prompt you to stay centered more often. But you’d likely get ELDA interventions either way, for the people in situations where ELDA false triggers are hard to avoid. All speculation from me since I’ve never had one.

I think you nailed it explaining the differences. I have similar experiences. With LDA on if I signal, assist does not kick in. If I do not signal it nudges steering to keep in lane slightly, not jarring like ELDA. LDA is very subtle and easy to override.

ELDA interventions are very abrupt as the intention is avoid impending collision. But problem was too many false positives. But with last two updates I have not seen ELDA trigger in same locations or similar scenarios. Infact I did not experience ELDA trigger instances.

Phantom braking during auto-pilot is another thing though, at certain location without any bridge, it keep doing same braking going from 70 to 55 most of the times.

 

[duanra]

So according to what I read in this topic (I am away on vacation without my car),
now we can disable the ELDA for good ?
Can you guys confirm ?

 

[Msjulie]

In the USA you can

 

[duanra]

In the USA you can

Thanks, I'll check when I am back and I'll post it for Canada, Quebec anyway

 

[duanra]

It is fixed for Canada too it seems !

 

[duanra]

It is too bad they don't put this change in the new version notes. Maybe some folks who like this feature would be caught by surprise.
Anyhow I am really glad they changed it.

 

[Firetechy]

Ask your service center / local tech to push 24.4 to your car, that finally gave me an off switch.

Thanks, the 24.4 made it much better. But, since I have the option to turn it off now, I did that to avoid the whole problem. Maybe people who aren't seeing the issue are FSD adopters. I don't have autopilot or FSD right now.

Re: video request. It just shows the car move back to the left suddenly so I don't believe it is helpful (someone could argue driver instead of car). If you want a description of the "obstacle" it detected, I believe it is waist high grass next to the road edge that I am trying to get as close to as other larger vehicles encroach on my lane.

 

[Incredulocious]

Re: video request. It just shows the car move back to the left suddenly so I don't believe it is helpful (someone could argue driver instead of car). If you want a description of the "obstacle" it detected, I believe it is waist high grass next to the road edge that I am trying to get as close to as other larger vehicles encroach on my lane.

It’s not the evasive action that would be interesting but rather seeing what the visual environment looks like and what the driver is doing at the moment of false positives. In other words, seeing what it takes to confuse the system. I mean I sometimes drive in circumstances that folks have described (like a narrow road with tall grass or shrubs alongside) but I’ve never had ELDA kick in.

Of course any such video could be faked by merely jerking the wheel and claiming it was ELDA but so be it.

Anyway, I’m just curious. I’ve certainly experienced plenty of inappropriate braking from autopilot – in particular on multi-lane highways that curve over a rise while there’s a big rig ahead in the other lane, or when a car merges in far ahead but at a slower speed, or when a car slows far ahead as it merges out of the lane – and I’ve learned to anticipate how it badly handles these.

 

[soaring47]

I have been avoiding updating (still on 2019.12.1.1) because of this feature and all of the reports on false positives.

It sounds like version 24.4 enabled a permanent off, I was curious: for those who have turned it off, is that still staying permanently off for you in recent versions (ex 28 or 32)? Saw some conflicting reports online so curious if it went back to reenabling itself after driving.

 

[p-f-g]

It sounds like version 24.4 enabled a permanent off,

Well, not everywhere apparently. Nothing has changed for me (28.3.1).

 

[rincewind]

No permanent off in the UK for ELDA. Since the recent update a few days ago it's triggering false positives almost every time I use it - driving me nuts and it's rather alarming. I thought it was my poor driving at first but no - the latest one I was 100% between the white lines bang in the centre point and the loud bleep went off again, red message on the screen. I really want to permanently disable this feature as it's bordering on the dangerous, but I can't. It's so buggy that it shouldn't be there at all atm.

 

[Msjulie]

No permanent off in the UK for ELDA. Since the recent update a few days ago it's triggering false positives almost every time I use it - driving me nuts and it's rather alarming. I thought it was my poor driving at first but no - the latest one I was 100% between the white lines bang in the centre point and the loud bleep went off again, red message on the screen. I really want to permanently disable this feature as it's bordering on the dangerous, but I can't. It's so buggy that it shouldn't be there at all atm.

That's really surprising that you can't turn it off, bummer