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Energy accounting

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A few months ago someone on the forums who ran their Model S battery until the car stopped noted that the energy consumed 'since last charge', as shown on the Trips display, was right around 80 kWh. I'll see if I can't find the reference.

I've wondered what the "reserve" is... so doing the math with the two current surmised Rating estimates:

265 * 300 = 79.5KWh

265 * 308 = 81.62KWh

So a reserve of either 3.38 or 4.5 KWh (assuming it started with a 100% charge)


Of course that still doesn't explain why driven miles would be less than rated miles if the trip average is less than 300(or 308) Wh/mi if the energy usage meters account for all electrical draws on the car.

Unless: The rated miles projection does not take the "bottom end battery reserve" in to account.

It just so happens that using either 300 or 308 Wh/mi against wither 3.38 or 4.5 KWh presnts a 11-14 mile range that would be "left in reserve"...
 
Of course that still doesn't explain why driven miles would be less than rated miles if the trip average is less than 300(or 308) Wh/mi if the energy usage meters account for all electrical draws on the car.
I thought we had evidence that it doesn't account for vampire load when the car is off. So if your trip isn't non-stop, I can see them diverging easily.
 
So if that's the actual value, and I keep my average per trip under that value as per the trip meter....

Yep... here it is. You can see the line that says "Rated" on the right and 300 Wh/mi on the left. Sorry for the crappy photo and reflections...

IMG_1399.JPG


EDIT: Now that I look at that photo more closely, the line looks like it might be a hair above the 300 mark on the scale, so who knows!
 
KE is pretty small potatoes when compared to the energy stored in an 85 kWh battery pack.

The Model S at 80mph has about 0.4kWh of kinetic energy. For a short trip on the freeway, this is significant. Factoring it into the calculations would certainly help even out the Wh/mi display over the first few miles of a trip. Theoretically, in a vacuum, the 85kWh battery could accelerate the Model S to about 1150 MPH :)
 
The Model S at 80mph has about 0.4kWh of kinetic energy. For a short trip on the freeway, this is significant. Factoring it into the calculations would certainly help even out the Wh/mi display over the first few miles of a trip. Theoretically, in a vacuum, the 85kWh battery could accelerate the Model S to about 1150 MPH :)

Shhh, don't want to jump the gun on Elon's future announcements. :wink:

As for the other thing: certainly, factoring the KE into the consumed-energy graph could reduce the spike associated with accelerating to highway speed. But it won't do much to smooth it out on the highway: even with the cruise control set at a constant speed (constant KE), my energy graph has Slartibartfast written all over it...
 
That is true, but this issue is much greater than vampire loads. I documented my last easy to document easy to describe leg of a trip from just a couple of weeks ago. I range charged till the car stopped charging at 251 miles rated range, then immediately left to drive 254.6 miles mainly over 4.5 hours with an average energy shown as 276 Wh/mi and total energy used as 70.3 kWh and 6 rated range miles left.

My delta's along the trip are as follows:
Rated RangeCal Bat Energy(308Wh/mi)Distance TraveledAverage Energy/miTotal Energy Used (Shown)Total Energy Stored + UsedTime
25177.308kWh 0-077.308kWh4:00 PM
12939.732kWh121.5285 Wh/mi34.7kWh74.432kWh 6:41 PM
309.240kWh230.1276 Wh/mi63.4kWh72.640kWh8:43 PM
164.928kWh244.6276 Wh/mi67.1kWh72.028kWh9:17 PM
61.848kWh254.6276 Wh/mi70.3kWh72.148kWh10:38 PM


As you can see, the numbers during the bulk of my travel time don't make sense by significantly more than vampire loads (5kW in this example), but after the traveling ends, you can see the vampire loads which makes perfect sense to me. I am very open to explanations on where my missing 5kW went :)

Peter

I thought we had evidence that it doesn't account for vampire load when the car is off. So if your trip isn't non-stop, I can see them diverging easily.
 
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Yep... here it is. You can see the line that says "Rated" on the right and 300 Wh/mi on the left. Sorry for the crappy photo and reflections...

View attachment 26797

EDIT: Now that I look at that photo more closely, the line looks like it might be a hair above the 300 mark on the scale, so who knows!

mrknox-

I saw your post earlier after I drove home, and I now see your edit....

I agree it is just above the 300 line on the graph. As a matter of fact, looking closely at my display, I can see the thicker "Rated" line is actually slightly separated from the 300Wh graph line... by about one blank pixel's width. What's more, you can see that the heavier Rated line runs in to the numbers along the left hand vertical axis slightly off center more so than the other lines.

So... if the likely choices for the Rated value are 300 or 308, I'm going to go with 308. Now... I'd love to find that officially documented somewhere...

- - - Updated - - -

That is true, but this issue is much greater than vampire loads. I documented my last easy to document easy to describe leg of a trip from just a couple of weeks ago. I range charged till the car stopped charging at 251 miles rated range, then immediately left to drive 254.6 miles mainly over 4.5 hours with an average energy shown as 276 Wh/mi and total energy used as 70.3 kWh and 6 rated range miles left.

My delta's along the trip are as follows:
Rated RangeCal Bat Energy(308Wh/mi)Distance TraveledAverage Energy/miTotal Energy Used (Shown)Total Energy Stored + UsedTime
25177.308kWh0-077.308kWh4:00 PM
12939.732kWh121.5285 Wh/mi34.7kWh74.432kWh6:41 PM
309.240kWh230.1276 Wh/mi63.4kWh72.640kWh8:43 PM
164.928kWh244.6276 Wh/mi67.1kWh72.028kWh9:17 PM
61.848kWh254.6276 Wh/mi70.3kWh72.148kWh10:38 PM

As you can see, the numbers during the bulk of my travel time don't make sense by significantly more than vampire loads (5kW in this example), but after the traveling ends, you can see the vampire loads which makes perfect sense to me. I am very open to explanations on where my missing 5kW went :)

Peter

Nice work, Peter.

So, that 5.16KWh of energy unaccounted for would be almost 17 miles at 308Wh/mi, or almost 19 at your final average of 276.

It appears that vampire load is generally accepted to account for about 1 mile of rated range lost per hour... so for the 4.5 hour duration of your trip, even if the slight vampire load is not monitored by the trip meters, there's still 12-14 miles unaccounted for....

Do I see that correctly that your actual distance traveled was greater than your rated range?
 
Yes, I've gotten very good at that with all my roadtriping through areas without great charging, that extra mileage is hour/s of reduced charge time. Not mysteriously losing 5kWh would be nice too.

As a side note, I see about 1 mile every 2-3 hours or so of vampire loss.

I was trying to put enough of this together along with a larger question I have on battery degradation for a solid question to Tesla, but I've run into a major hiccup. I can't qualify "rated miles" to an extent I want. I use a rated mile to equal 308Wh/mi both because of where the line is shown on my car, and because when I drive, and watch the predicted mileage, it exactly equals the rates miles left when my energy usage equals 308Wh/mi average.

Then I had the standard discussion with a Tesla employee who said rated miles change with driving style (which I do not believe) though they may have changed with software loads (I started with 4.0). I wanted to collect some data on ideal miles (which no one believes is anything but solid) so I started collecting rates vs ideal mileage numbers on my car, and another car, expecting them to be the same; they are not. In fact they are not by almost 11 miles on a full charge. So now I'm at a loss to show a consistent energy number to be used in these calculations and compare cars with. I'm about to run my range calculation test on the new loaner car because I swear the line looks closer to 300 Wh/mi than on mine.

Peter

Do I see that correctly that your actual distance traveled was greater than your rated range?
 
Then I had the standard discussion with a Tesla employee who said rated miles change with driving style (which I do not believe) though they may have changed with software loads (I started with 4.0). I wanted to collect some data on ideal miles (which no one believes is anything but solid) so I started collecting rates vs ideal mileage numbers on my car, and another car, expecting them to be the same; they are not. In fact they are not by almost 11 miles on a full charge. So now I'm at a loss to show a consistent energy number to be used in these calculations and compare cars with. I'm about to run my range calculation test on the new loaner car because I swear the line looks closer to 300 Wh/mi than on mine.

Actually, I'm impressed that rated range is reasonably close to reality given how hard it is to determine the SOC of the battery. As far as I can tell rated range is a fixed amount (but perhaps it's a somewhat different fixed amount depending upon software version) because if it was not at an average of 258 Wh/mi over 7300 miles rated range should be very different if it was dynamic. The best way I can show this is on the commute.

To work: 240 miles less 25 miles plus 10 miles equals 225 miles.
From work: 219 miles less 25 miles plus 1 mile equals 195 miles.

If rated range changed with driving style, mine should be higher--it's not.
 
I opted to not grab video, as it wasn't really necessary to document the "initial energy spike". A couple of pics illustrate:

This is sitting in my car this morning after unplugging the charge cable. At this point some energy is being used, as the systems have woken up and come online, the cabin HVAC has kicked in, dome lights are on, radio is on, etc... it was relatively cool this morning, so the sound of the thermal management was relatively modest. Initial pic:
View attachment 26698

And this picture is 90 second later, after I've backed down my driveway and rolled down the street for the first bit of distance. This spike is low today, as I mentioned it was rather cool (high 60's) this morning. The spike is in the 800's:
View attachment 26699

By the time I got to work ~33 miles later, my average usage was about 304Wh/mi... so the initial energy usage while the car is stationary is what seems to account for the initially reported "spike" once the "Since Last Charge" meter updates after the car moves a bit.

(I earlier thought it was tied to the first 0.1 miles having had to elapse, but apparently not as per the pics)

I fell behind on this thread, but I see the photo. I am always watching the "total energy" column because I am not trying to calculate driving efficiency but total energy consumed by the car. I think it was stated by others that if you take a small number of watt hours and divide by a number approaching zero then you get a big number but without any meaning. You see that the total energy column shows that you have used less than 0.1kWhr of power.

It would be nice for the "total energy" column to actually measure total energy, not just that from driving.
 
I agree it is just above the 300 line on the graph. As a matter of fact, looking closely at my display, I can see the thicker "Rated" line is actually slightly separated from the 300Wh graph line... by about one blank pixel's width. What's more, you can see that the heavier Rated line runs in to the numbers along the left hand vertical axis slightly off center more so than the other lines.

So... if the likely choices for the Rated value are 300 or 308, I'm going to go with 308. Now... I'd love to find that officially documented somewhere...

Yep. I guess I hadn't looked closely before and just saw the line and the 300 Wh/mi indication. (At least I now know that 308 is the number to beat if I want to get rated range rather than 300!)
 
The new energy accounting formula:

After seeing a response on this from ownership to Rod and Barbara, I've rerun all my numbers for this trip and a few others and it seems that everything now lines up perfectly. Tesla says that the 265 mile EPA rating includes the reserve miles below 0. Because of this, and that they want the display to read 265 on the dash when "full" each "rated" mile decremented from the dash miles remaining is ~287 Wh. This means that if you charge until the display shows 265, then drive, over the course of driving 248 miles at 308Wh/mi your display will now show 0 miles left and you will have a buffer of 17 miles to go before you are truly hitchhiking home.


My delta's along the trip are as follows:
Rated RangeCal Bat Energy(287Wh/mi)5.3kWh ReserveDistance TraveledAverage Energy/miTotal Energy Used (Shown)Total Energy Stored + UsedTime
25172.037kWh 5.3kWh0-077.337kWh4:00 PM
12937.023kWh5.3kWh121.5285 Wh/mi34.7kWh77.023kWh 6:41 PM
308.610kWh5.3kWh230.1276 Wh/mi63.4kWh77.310kWh8:43 PM
164.592kWh5.3kWh244.6276 Wh/mi67.1kWh76.992kWh9:17 PM
61.722kWh5.3kWh254.6276 Wh/mi70.3kWh77.322kWh10:38 PM



The net meaning of this is, if you are driving my car and you want a one to one drop of a rated mile on the display with distance traveled, you need to average 287 Wh/mi. I'm still trying to work out the cause a effect of the various "rated mile" energy numbers, if it is caused by car options and or battery size but that will have to wait for another day.

Peter


That is true, but this issue is much greater than vampire loads. I documented my last easy to document easy to describe leg of a trip from just a couple of weeks ago. I range charged till the car stopped charging at 251 miles rated range, then immediately left to drive 254.6 miles mainly over 4.5 hours with an average energy shown as 276 Wh/mi and total energy used as 70.3 kWh and 6 rated range miles left.

My delta's along the trip are as follows:
Rated RangeCal Bat Energy(308Wh/mi)Distance TraveledAverage Energy/miTotal Energy Used (Shown)Total Energy Stored + UsedTime
25177.308kWh 0-077.308kWh4:00 PM
12939.732kWh121.5285 Wh/mi34.7kWh74.432kWh 6:41 PM
309.240kWh230.1276 Wh/mi63.4kWh72.640kWh8:43 PM
164.928kWh244.6276 Wh/mi67.1kWh72.028kWh9:17 PM
61.848kWh254.6276 Wh/mi70.3kWh72.148kWh10:38 PM


As you can see, the numbers during the bulk of my travel time don't make sense by significantly more than vampire loads (5kW in this example), but after the traveling ends, you can see the vampire loads which makes perfect sense to me. I am very open to explanations on where my missing 5kW went :)

Peter
 
Interesting....

So they decrement the rated range counter "faster" to provide the buffer, yet calculate the initial value using the Rated value.

So that means 308 really is the "Rated" value. It also means they calculate using ~76KWh of the battery.

Now I have to think about how I look at the rest of the displays in the car...

Thanks for that, Peter.
 
A couple of notes as I pondered this for quite some time and I have numbers from when my car was new also (18k miles ago).

265 is the inflection point, where ~308*265 = ~287*265 + (buffer miles) * 308 cross

my ~76KWh was a full SOC charge on this particular trip, in fact my batteries were out of balance and a full charge really is ~255 right now on my car so my battery is a little bit bigger than that.. When I had it new I was really able to use about 80KWh of battery for travel without touching the 5.3kWh buffer, and my car showed a rated range of 275 miles. 275*287 = 78.925kWh + 5.3kWh = 84,225kWh original capacity. Your total energy numbers will be different than mine, but (setting aside various cars various "rated range" numbers) our reserve buffers should be identical.

I'm off to ponder what the meaning of various "rated range" numbers mean...


Interesting....

So they decrement the rated range counter "faster" to provide the buffer, yet calculate the initial value using the Rated value.

So that means 308 really is the "Rated" value. It also means they calculate using ~76KWh of the battery.

Now I have to think about how I look at the rest of the displays in the car...

Thanks for that, Peter.
 
Same issue here ... reported to Tesla yesterday with log data. Will see what they say. The tech did tell me that the "reserve" is 5%. So assuming a full 85 Kwh battery, there would be a 4.25 Kwh reserve. Based on the information in this thread, I am assuming that the reserve IS included in the 272 rated miles, but there is still a missing ~5.5 Kwh which can be directly shown without calculating back from the missing rated miles.

The simple way to get "proof" for the missing 5.5 Kwh which I followed on my last trip and is the basis for my report to Tesla:

(1) I fully charged (max range) and (to account for vampire discharge) topped off the full charge just before leaving (e.g., I stopped charging the morning of my trip, then reconnected the charger one hour before departure to top off any vampire discharge issues). At departure, my range showed 272 miles.

(2) I then drove 247.3 miles (average energy consumption was 304 wh/mile but that is irrelevant to this method) until my "rated miles" on the speedo indicated I was down to 7 miles at which point I stopped (luckily I just made it to my destination).

(3) I then looked at the trip meter for the "total energy" consumed since last charge which was 75.2 Kwh.

(4) Adding in the 4.25 Kwh "buffer" (5% according to the Tesla tech), my consumption + buffer = 79.45 Kwh. So, I *should* have had 5.55 Kwh of range left BEFORE hitting zero on rated range. However, when I finished the first leg of my trip I was down to 7 miles of rated range! Far less than 5.55 Kwh should have given me under any set of assumptions.

I repeated this drive twice (once in each direction) and got the same result.

This narrows down the list of potential explanations to:

1) The battery is not really 85Kwh but instead is closer to 79.5Kwh (or possibly only my battery - could be defective)
2) The trip meter report of Kwh consumed since last charge is inaccurate (which would seem to be to be a defect)
3) The trip meter report of Kwh consumed is accurate but only reflects drive train consumption (I don't believe this - it would be incredibly misleading and would make the trip meter very suspect)
4) The battery is not charging to the full 85Kwh for some reason

I would be curious if anyone gets more than 76Kwh of consumption (reported by trip meter since a full charge) under any driving conditions. It could be that the batteries in our Tesla's vary in actual capacity.

Picture of the trip meter at the end of my drive is below.

CameraZOOM-20130825220225006.jpg
 
Hey Jeff,

Here is some extra information that should help you make sense of your numbers.

When you originally started your trip, your battery had the energy to drive 272 "rated miles". I don't know what your cars "rated mile" energy unit is, but so far I have only seen two, ~302Wh/mi on newer 85s, and ~306.5 Wh/mi on older cars. I'm going to assume that your is using the newer 302Wh/mi. This means that you had the following amount of drivable energy in the battery at the start, 302Wh/mi * 272 miles = 82.144 kWh.

Then, when traveling, the display decremented one mile for every ~284Wh you used. This is why the display shows that you drove 265 miles (272-7) while using 75.2kWh. (75.2kWh/265 ~= 284Wh/mi). At the same time, ~18Wh was placed in "reserve" for each mile was decremented from the display. As you drove the distance of the trip this built up the "reserve" at a rate of ~6%.

At the end of your trip you show 7 miles remaining. This equates to ~2.114 kWh of energy (7mi*302Wh/mi). You also have a "reserve" of 4.770 kWh (265mi * ~18Wh/mi). This would mean you have a state of charge of about 8.4% which matches your battery display shown in the picture. (6.884kWh/82.144kWh = ~8.4%).

Doing a total end of trip budget analysis, your total end numbers are 6.884kWh energy available, plus a shown 75.2kWh used equaling 82.084kWh in all. Somewhere we are off by 60 Wh (0.07%), but our miles are only in whole units, and energy used is only in tenths of kW... :)

All in all you look great!

Peter

PS, In answer to your question, yes, when my car was new new I was able to use 79.4 kWh from 275->1 mile (306.5 Wh/mi "rated mile" energy unit on my car, or a drivable capacity of ~84.288 kWh). I'm now down to ~78kWh of drivable capacity at ~25k virtual miles.

Same issue here ... reported to Tesla yesterday with log data. Will see what they say. The tech did tell me that the "reserve" is 5%. So assuming a full 85 Kwh battery, there would be a 4.25 Kwh reserve. Based on the information in this thread, I am assuming that the reserve IS included in the 272 rated miles, but there is still a missing ~5.5 Kwh which can be directly shown without calculating back from the missing rated miles.

The simple way to get "proof" for the missing 5.5 Kwh which I followed on my last trip and is the basis for my report to Tesla:

(1) I fully charged (max range) and (to account for vampire discharge) topped off the full charge just before leaving (e.g., I stopped charging the morning of my trip, then reconnected the charger one hour before departure to top off any vampire discharge issues). At departure, my range showed 272 miles.

(2) I then drove 247.3 miles (average energy consumption was 304 wh/mile but that is irrelevant to this method) until my "rated miles" on the speedo indicated I was down to 7 miles at which point I stopped (luckily I just made it to my destination).

(3) I then looked at the trip meter for the "total energy" consumed since last charge which was 75.2 Kwh.

(4) Adding in the 4.25 Kwh "buffer" (5% according to the Tesla tech), my consumption + buffer = 79.45 Kwh. So, I *should* have had 5.55 Kwh of range left BEFORE hitting zero on rated range. However, when I finished the first leg of my trip I was down to 7 miles of rated range! Far less than 5.55 Kwh should have given me under any set of assumptions.

I repeated this drive twice (once in each direction) and got the same result.

This narrows down the list of potential explanations to:

1) The battery is not really 85Kwh but instead is closer to 79.5Kwh (or possibly only my battery - could be defective)
2) The trip meter report of Kwh consumed since last charge is inaccurate (which would seem to be to be a defect)
3) The trip meter report of Kwh consumed is accurate but only reflects drive train consumption (I don't believe this - it would be incredibly misleading and would make the trip meter very suspect)
4) The battery is not charging to the full 85Kwh for some reason

I would be curious if anyone gets more than 76Kwh of consumption (reported by trip meter since a full charge) under any driving conditions. It could be that the batteries in our Tesla's vary in actual capacity.

Picture of the trip meter at the end of my drive is below.
 
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So most everyone looking at their in-dash displays appears to come to the conclusion that there is a rather linear relationship between rated range and battery capacity which translates to a constant Wh accounted for per mile, with one number for total rated range and a higher number subtracted in order to build up buffer.
I wanted to verify that and went through about two thousand miles worth of driving data that I have collected using the REST API. And there the results look quite confusing...
For any reported SOC (sadly, only reported in full percentage points) we obviously get several different reported rated ranges (as those are reported in tenth of mile resolution). But one would assume that if things were really as simple as explained here that there would be a specific cutoff between each discrete percentage "step" - i.e. 90% SOC corresponds to 184.0-186.1 miles of rated range (sorry, S60 owner here). And then 89% SOC would be 181.8-183.9 miles or something along those lines. Yet the data that I have collected shows something rather surprising:
90% covers 180.7 - 186.1 miles
89% covers 178.0 - 184.1 miles
88% covers 175.3 - 181.7 miles
87% covers 173.2 - 179.3 miles
...
60% covers 111.9 - 120.7 miles
59% covers 109.2 - 118.3 miles
....
So there is quite significant overlap in these numbers. Below is a little plot to illustrate this more (I never ran my car below 11%, but did a couple of range charges);

What this means is that for, say, 181 rated miles of range my car sometimes reports 88, 89 or 90% SOC. I tried this with ideal miles as well and while the numbers are different, the graph looks exactly the same.

Any ideas what's up here? Is this bad reporting of the REST API and I should just ignore the SOC value given there and calculate the 'real' SOC from the rated range? If that's the case, then why is the SOC given there at all?
For those who would like to try this for themselves, the SOC is called 'battery_level' and available from the charge_state REST call... speaking of which, I'll be happy to share the tool used to create the graph below - assuming you are collecting your REST data into a MongoDB with the teslams Javascript tools this will be trivial to use.

The other thing that doesn't seem consistent with what is reported here is if I overlay the graph with a 'good fit' approximation (in my case that's a 267Wh line) and look at where this intersects '0 rated miles' I get about 7% SOC. So that's nowhere near the 5% buffer plus about 5% (3kWh) hidden away (209 miles of rated range * 14Wh - bluetinc even assumes 18Wh which would get me 209 * 18 = 3.8kWh or an expected SOC of 11.1% when hitting range 0 - yet at 11% SOC I have rated ranges of 9-5-10.2 miles...

DistanceOverCharge.png
 
Interesting data dirkh.

Thinking out loud: is it possible that power draw from non-locomotive loads (HVAC, headlamps, etc...) would cause the slight variability in what the rated range for each SOC percentage step might reflect?
 
IThinking out loud: is it possible that power draw from non-locomotive loads (HVAC, headlamps, etc...) would cause the slight variability in what the rated range for each SOC percentage step might reflect?
I was under the assumption that rated range doesn't include any such factors. But then my data seems to indicate that some of my assumptions must be wrong :)
I would love to see the corresponding chart from others who are collecting their telemetry data. Maybe that will help us shed some light on this issue.