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EV running costs starting to look expensive?

RAC Foundation puts Tuesday's average diesel price at 175.94p, which is pretty much £8 per gallon on the nose.

But future diesel/petrol prices and future electricity prices are both very uncertain. Any calculation you do today is unlikely to be valid next month, let alone next year. The situation is so volatile that price predictions are a mug's game at the moment, IMO.

Not that that helps much. Everything is going up, but which is going to go up most/fastest? And which will stay high for longest?
 
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Adopado

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2019
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Scotland
We can’t compare it to Cuba.

The 1959 Cuban Revolution and the beginning of the Cold War saw a change in the island’s automotive industry. As old friends became foes, Fidel Castro placed an embargo on the US and foreign imports, which meant that no American cars were exported to the island. The embargo even extended to include car parts, which had serious implications for Cuban car owners.

With no new cars coming into the country and no parts available to make repairs, car owners had the make a choice: Either let their cars rust in the garage or use what parts they had available and make repairs themselves.

The U.K. would need to ban all ICE imports and their parts to create a Cuba situation.
I know it’s not the same as Cuba! I was just highlighting that people are likely to want to hang onto their ICE vehicles well beyond 2030, and Cuba is an extreme example of people extending the life of vehicles that they can no longer buy.
 
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Adopado

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Aug 19, 2019
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We have a 2013 Fiesta as a second (rarely used) car. I worked out present fuel use costs. It came out that “parity” would be about 60p per kWh assuming prices stay as they are. That’s without service and repair costs. Obviously it’s a small efficient petrol car with performance considerably less than the Tesla so not really comparable in many other respects. An equivalent larger sporty ICE is going to be much more thirsty.
 

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
6,915
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Suffolk, UK
people are likely to want to hang onto their ICE vehicles well beyond 2030

I wonder ...

"Can't afford EV" ... the less well off stuck with Diesels - cheap to buy, but will become very expensive to run - and "No off road parking / charging" where landlords not providing charging and/or street-charging not available. Legislation will probably be introduced to force those things to happen, but we can't wire up all of them overnight. People not in that situation will be providing cheap 2nd hand ICE replacements for a while (14 years average age at scrappage and 9 years minimum, barring accident writeoff)

But the die-hards? I'm very doubtful that will be a huge thing.

I had a V8, 300BHP 750kg toy (Lotus Seven thingie). Carburettors used the "bucket" method to introduce fuel into cylinders. Power-to-weight ratio fairly respectable. Right pedal labelled "loud".

Stage-2 heads and some other fettling to get the BHP up (and keep it there / avoid pinking etc.) was more than £1,500, and I doubt I could have seen off a Performance Boost at the lights, let alone a Performance model!

The noise was very tiring ... but it only did a thousand or two miles a year. Maybe people will keep those ... my Porsche-owning mate goes to a "meet" once a month where they all rev up. My mate track's his (and the previous one that he tried to put through the armco at the track ...), so I suppose there is that. Dunno why he doesn't get a Taycan, but he tells me "That hasn't got anything like the handling" but I doubt he has ever driven one ... actually I need to tackle him on that, he can take me along to "navigate" :)

It took very little indeed to convince me that EV was better than ICE noise-and-power. Kept my toy for 3 years or so post-EV and didn't put a single mile on it.

Although, I still fancy a Cobra. But I'd get an electric one wouldn't I? I don't want to be having to fiddle with it because it did so few miles that everything needed "help" before each journey. a BEV version would just be "Jump in and off you go". It would need to be self-polishing of course ...
 
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GRiLLA

Active Member
Jul 5, 2020
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UK
I do think in general that EV enthusiasm needs to move beyond money saving as the #1 reason to buy electric. The reasons should be

1. It's reducing climate change
2. It's not putting huge wealth in the hands of foreign regimes that would quite like to see harm come to us
3. It's more convenient to live with
4. Nicer to drive

Since when do many people care about the cost of the fuel to power their X5 or Tiguan SUVs ?

People generally accept 1 and 2 to be true, somehow they believe the opposite of 3 and 4 and we need to do a better job to help them understand.
 
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pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
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mid wales
I do think in general that EV enthusiasm needs to move beyond money saving as the #1 reason to buy electric. The reasons should be

1. It's reducing climate change
2. It's not putting huge wealth in the hands of foreign regimes that would quite like to see harm come to us
3. It's more convenient to live with
4. Nicer to drive

Since when do many people care about the cost of the fuel to power their X5 or Tiguan SUVs ?

People generally accept 1 and 2 to be true, somehow they believe the opposite of 3 and 4 and we need to do a better job to help them understand.
2 above=China Megabucks from EVs
Argument that Cuba keeping ancient cars running v new car manufacture is also green... Just we have an economy dependant on buying stuff
 

Undecided_2

Member
Supporting Member
Jan 21, 2022
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341
Helensburgh
I think that the younger generation will speed up the decline. When I lived in the US they saw a trend of young people not bothering to learn to drive or own a car. Here it’s very expensive for a teenager to learn to drive and it’s relatively easy to travel throughout the U.K. without needing a car. Let’s face it we’ve ruined the planet and EV cars are not going to save the planet - they’re an important step in the right direction - but a much more drastic change needs to happen. The scientists keep telling us that change has to happen now and now in 20-years but the governments keep pushing the dates out. Glasgow COP proved what a useless bunch of bureaucrats they are with no legally punishable fines for continuing business as normal.

If we really think about it. The government has been told by car manufacturers that they can’t deliver EVs that quickly as it will cost them to retool and will hurt their profits oh, and if you make us change we’ll pull out and lay off thousands and your voters will hate you.

If the government told them that no more ICE cars will be sold today would the manufacturers shut up shop and quit? Not a chance. If they increased road tax on ICE cars to make it pointless to own them today - but clearly they would have to make concessions for those living remotely and cheap road tax would make that possible - it would force those that can afford a Tesla to switch. I walked past a beautiful U.K. AMG SUV Mercedes £100k and it spends the majority of its time sat on the driveway.

Meanwhile VW and others would rapidly make vehicles to meet the masses needs. New schemes would start up where you could rent an EV - it’s already happening. Everyone needs to hate and be embarrassed driving an ICE vehicle - that same way that we hate racism and bigotry. That will help change and then the next dirty old technology will be hated and that’s what will speed up the process.

Rant over.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
4,146
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Shropshire
Only if you would have leased personally otherwise. If you have the capital then company car schemes are not a good deal by a long way. You are basically trading tax for leasing company profit.
I am comparing like with like. An ICE car or the equivalent cost EV run as a company car. Does not matter whether it was leased or bought by the company. The companies cost is the same. The individual ( as a higher rate tax payer which I assume most people entitled to a 50K company car would be) would save that in BiK.
Not every company car driver owns the company which I think is the perspective you are coming from.
 

Undecided_2

Member
Supporting Member
Jan 21, 2022
472
341
Helensburgh
I do think in general that EV enthusiasm needs to move beyond money saving as the #1 reason to buy electric. The reasons should be

1. It's reducing climate change
2. It's not putting huge wealth in the hands of foreign regimes that would quite like to see harm come to us
3. It's more convenient to live with
4. Nicer to drive

Since when do many people care about the cost of the fuel to power their X5 or Tiguan SUVs ?

People generally accept 1 and 2 to be true, somehow they believe the opposite of 3 and 4 and we need to do a better job to help them understand.
I agree. I’m not saving money driving an MY. I had a low payment on my 2019 Tiguan Diesel. It didn’t come down to running costs but we had to make changes to our behaviour and an EV was the obvious and easy choice.
 
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GRiLLA

Active Member
Jul 5, 2020
1,681
1,771
UK
I am comparing like with like. An ICE car or the equivalent cost EV run as a company car. Does not matter whether it was leased or bought by the company. The companies cost is the same. The individual ( as a higher rate tax payer which I assume most people entitled to a 50K company car would be) would save that in BiK.
Not every company car driver owns the company which I think is the perspective you are coming from.
No, more from the perspective that in many jobs (mine included) you can salary sacrifice to get a company car, which ends up being a monthly cost to you like a lease. I accept that if you own a company or have a role that really needs a company car then there is a more meaningful saving.
 

Adopado

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2019
5,962
4,524
Scotland
I do think in general that EV enthusiasm needs to move beyond money saving as the #1 reason to buy electric. The reasons should be

1. It's reducing climate change
2. It's not putting huge wealth in the hands of foreign regimes that would quite like to see harm come to us
3. It's more convenient to live with
4. Nicer to drive

Since when do many people care about the cost of the fuel to power their X5 or Tiguan SUVs ?

People generally accept 1 and 2 to be true, somehow they believe the opposite of 3 and 4 and we need to do a better job to help them understand.
One of the most significant is the effect on local air quality. People die as the result of traffic fumes. People with asthma end up in A&E. The air in our urban areas stinks. If you life in a country area and travel into any city the difference is quite stark. I have to say that the vast increase in diesel traffic in recent decades has made it even worse. I’m sure the very recent models have numbers that suggest they are much cleaner but the reality is that doesn’t apply to the great majority.

If I had to pay more to drive electric I would still choose an EV so long as I could afford it.
 
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Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
4,146
4,442
Shropshire
No, more from the perspective that in many jobs (mine included) you can salary sacrifice to get a company car, which ends up being a monthly cost to you like a lease. I accept that if you own a company or have a role that really needs a company car then there is a more meaningful saving.
Sure. I was not trying to examine the general pros and cons of company car ownership. just describing the narrow case of someone who already drives a 50K ICE company car and switches to a Tesla.
Personally I never drove a company car until I bought an EV since it made no financial sense. I was expecting the saving to 0 when I got the Tesla but allow a much nicer car for roughly the same money.
 

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
6,915
3,662
Suffolk, UK
If the government told them that no more ICE cars will be sold today would the manufacturers shut up shop and quit?

They'd stop (or threaten ...) making political donations to that party. Can't think of another reason why government doesn't do lots of things which are lobbied against. Make massive change X (e.g. better housebuilding standard / insulation). That industry sector whinges and claims black-is-white and so on. But post-change its a level p[laying field for everyone, they tool up for it, they get cost savings from economies of scale. The bit I don't understand is why it doesn't happen (except when we are at war) ... political donations is my supposition.

An ICE car or the equivalent cost EV run as a company car. Does not matter whether it was leased or bought by the company. The companies cost is the same.

EV gets 100% first year write-off which brings a useful tax benefit. IMO reduced cost of service is worthwhile and if the company pays cash the strong residuals are also a benefit.

I’m not saving money driving an MY. I had a low payment on my 2019 Tiguan Diesel.

"driving" maybe, sorry to hear that :) but I think you will have lower service costs, and strong residual, to look forward too.

I think crash survivability better in MY too. Hopefully you won't need that :)
 

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