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EV running costs starting to look expensive?
- Thread starter 2020M3SR
- Start date
This is a common misconception. The premium you're paying is for the specification of the car, not just because it's an EV. To add all the extras to any equivalent ICE that you get as standard an EV very quickly brings the price up to the same level. It's difficult to do that comparison with a Tesla as there are no ICE cars to directly compare with, but look at other marques and compare their EVs with their ICE counterparts with all the same bells & whistles on them.
Admittedly you can buy a lower spec ICE car for less money whereas lower spec EVs don't really exist at the moment, but that's not comparing apples for apples. If you want a comparable car, you'll be paying similar amounts.
- drive more gently, you should be hitting 250wh/m pretty regularly which is 4 miles/kwh
- get a time of use tariff to fill up at 7.5p/kwh. If you don't drive enough miles and are worried about the increased peak rate price, then the 30p/kwh isn't going to kill you either
- drive more gently - your tyres shoudl last similarly to other cars you've driven so costs should be neutral there
- ICE will/should cost more to maintain
- I often hear of 60mpg cars. Maybe its just me having bought petrol in the past but they are never anywhere near 60mpg and they never hit their manufacturer numbers either. Not dismissing it, but if you're using it for man math, may be worth a pass across that number to see what a realistic average mpg across a year is?
- get a time of use tariff to fill up at 7.5p/kwh. If you don't drive enough miles and are worried about the increased peak rate price, then the 30p/kwh isn't going to kill you either
- drive more gently - your tyres shoudl last similarly to other cars you've driven so costs should be neutral there
- ICE will/should cost more to maintain
- I often hear of 60mpg cars. Maybe its just me having bought petrol in the past but they are never anywhere near 60mpg and they never hit their manufacturer numbers either. Not dismissing it, but if you're using it for man math, may be worth a pass across that number to see what a realistic average mpg across a year is?
60 mpg with a 400 hp ICE equivalent isn't a thing. More like 20-30 mpg for equivalent performance. Even if it was the same price or even cheaper (not that I think it actually is) I wouldn't downgrade to a diesel after being spoilt by Tesla EV power and convenience for over 4 years.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Brings home the point about electricity prices though.
What of the people who don't have off-road parking, home-charging and the ability to choose energy supplier to get a good "EV Off-peak rate" (or to stick some PV on the roof and stuff the excess into their EV)
What of the people who don't have off-road parking, home-charging and the ability to choose energy supplier to get a good "EV Off-peak rate" (or to stick some PV on the roof and stuff the excess into their EV)
all a little fluid at the moment. Cars are still expensive but the flip side is things like salary sacrifice/company car BIK to offset that, and off peak tariffs for home charging.
In the next 3-5 years hopefully electricity prices stabilise as renewables increases and depdence on gas decreases (perhaps some adjustments to wholesale pricing would help), and prices of cars may come down.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
Suppliers don't want new customers but they are not allowed to refuse them. You can insist they take you as a customer on price cap rates. They don't have to let you go onto go but my parents joined them 3 weeks ago and were allowed onto go. In fact the Go rates went up between when they joined and when they were able to switch once the meter readings were confirmed as coming through but since they had made their intentions clear that they wanted Go from the outset they were allowed the old rate
I get free charging from work, and when I’m out and about I will use either free charging from Tesco or use the Bonnet app for 35p/kWh when I’m low and need to use public charging. I don’t even have the ability to charge at home as I live in an apartment, however the car is still saving me lots on transport.
I chose the Model 3 on monthly payments because it worked out about the same or less than an equivalent mid-range ICE car when factoring in fuel costs, servicing and road tax. But there are so many other benefits to the Model 3 over other cars.
So far I’ve driven 1,097 miles and have only spent £8 on public charging. My last car would cost about ~£250 for the same distance with the current price of petrol.
I chose the Model 3 on monthly payments because it worked out about the same or less than an equivalent mid-range ICE car when factoring in fuel costs, servicing and road tax. But there are so many other benefits to the Model 3 over other cars.
So far I’ve driven 1,097 miles and have only spent £8 on public charging. My last car would cost about ~£250 for the same distance with the current price of petrol.
What’s all this about 7.5p with Octopus Go! I’ve just fixed mine for another 2 years at 4.5p for 5 hours of off peak with EDF. Mind you the peak rate is pretty crippling so I’ll just have to kick my wife out of bed to do all the washing and ironing after midnight!! Can’t wait to get the Powerwall installed- ordered but nearly a year wait.
What is your gas deal with EDF (if you have gas). Looked at the same tariff as you but they wanted to move me onto EDF Go gas rate which was around 11 or 12p per Kw at that time. Plus using a fair bit of unavoidable peak rate as well made the sums for octopus much better for me in my usage pattern.
Edit - looks like the peak rates are even worse now (gone up around 4p or so) plus the standing charge rates are about twice Octopus.
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The Citroen C4 Grand Picasso which I came from gave me 62mpg (during winter) to 67.8mpg (during summer). Granted, I'm sort of a hyper-miler so I rarely go above 70mph unless I have to, and will happily cruise behind trucks at 58mph for a little while.
In comparison, my 2017 MS 75D gives me 220Wh/mile during summer to 280Wh/mile during winter, climate control is always set at 20C. This car doesn't have a heat pump so efficiency really takes a beating even in fairly mild weather (10C).
Taking the average efficiency of both cars:
- 65mpg for the Citroen, at £1.8/l of diesel that'd be 12.5p/mile
- 250Wh/mile for the MS
The price of electricity would need to be *50p/kWh* or more before I start paying more driving the Tesla. Granted, the price of fast public DC chargers nowadays are already approaching this figure in many places.
Of course, many people could afford to charge at home so the cost for us would be vastly cheaper. The Citroen and Tesla are also completely different cars in terms of performance.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
250wh/m is the energy used while moving. The total cost of energy PAID for is typically 30% higher after taking into account charging losses (10-15%), prehead, sentry, phantom drain etc etc so we all need to be realistic and take that into account when doing these comparisons.
Undecided_2
Member
We need to factor that ICE cars’ days are now numbered. Fossil fuel prices will rise even more when the deadline hits as less cars will need to go to a pump. The government will increase road tax on ICE to force them off of the road so that they meet their emission targets. People will convert their classic ICE cars to battery power using our old reconditioned Tesla batteries.
We’ll look back one day on the good old days when EVs didn’t pay road tax and only cost 30p per Kw to fill up and they didn’t have black boxes limiting their top speed and we could buy a pack of cigarettes for £14.
P.s.
Buying an ICE car now will cost more in the long run as they’re over priced and will depreciate like a brick dropped in water. New ones are a long wait and second hand I wouldn’t buy one. I sold my 2019 Tiguan 240bhp Tech R for more than I paid for in 2020 and it was sold by the dealer for not far off of its new price, it was a great car but seriously!
We’ll look back one day on the good old days when EVs didn’t pay road tax and only cost 30p per Kw to fill up and they didn’t have black boxes limiting their top speed and we could buy a pack of cigarettes for £14.
P.s.
Buying an ICE car now will cost more in the long run as they’re over priced and will depreciate like a brick dropped in water. New ones are a long wait and second hand I wouldn’t buy one. I sold my 2019 Tiguan 240bhp Tech R for more than I paid for in 2020 and it was sold by the dealer for not far off of its new price, it was a great car but seriously!
I think this is basically it. An EV is only cheap if you're a home owner who can get a cheap tariff. If you have to rely on public charging then it's on par with petrol. I actually live in a flat so don't have any chargers or nearby street parking however I've managed to source a lot of the free chargers around my area so I'd say 90% of my charging is done without paying and if I do a longer trip or do need a charge then it's either a supercharger or a local rapid one and I'll pay
I am guessing that there will be many people who will be determined to put off the time when they have to give up the ICE. Remember it’s only new cars that have go EV by 2030 so the second hand sales may well hold up well because people can no longer buy new. Look at what happened in Cuba when nobody was allowed to buy a new American car … they have kept the old cars going to this day.
I doubt that the measures to force the issue will be too draconian because of the fear of losing votes. The transition definitely won’t take place all at once.
Undecided_2
Member
We can’t compare it to Cuba.
The 1959 Cuban Revolution and the beginning of the Cold War saw a change in the island’s automotive industry. As old friends became foes, Fidel Castro placed an embargo on the US and foreign imports, which meant that no American cars were exported to the island. The embargo even extended to include car parts, which had serious implications for Cuban car owners.
With no new cars coming into the country and no parts available to make repairs, car owners had the make a choice: Either let their cars rust in the garage or use what parts they had available and make repairs themselves.
The U.K. would need to ban all ICE imports and their parts to create a Cuba situation.
The 1959 Cuban Revolution and the beginning of the Cold War saw a change in the island’s automotive industry. As old friends became foes, Fidel Castro placed an embargo on the US and foreign imports, which meant that no American cars were exported to the island. The embargo even extended to include car parts, which had serious implications for Cuban car owners.
With no new cars coming into the country and no parts available to make repairs, car owners had the make a choice: Either let their cars rust in the garage or use what parts they had available and make repairs themselves.
The U.K. would need to ban all ICE imports and their parts to create a Cuba situation.
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