TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

EVs "harmful to the market"???

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by PeterW, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. PeterW

    PeterW Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    400
    Location:
    Palmerston North, New Zealand
    #1 PeterW, Mar 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2009
    I find this part interesting

    Is he right or is he just saying, ("we need you buy the cars we are making now.")?
    Also this paragragh suggests that there is demand out there for electric cars
     
  2. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,142
    #2 malcolm, Mar 6, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
    "Harmful to the market"???

    But how else does any innovation get established? It could be argued that car makers have been largely resistant to true innovation, prefering to tweak existing technology. The rise of Electric Vehicles is forcing them out of their traditional comfort zones. They have shown themselves to be resistant to Technology Push. Now suddenly there's a real and uncomfortable tug of Market Pull.

    If the present stirrings of demand for EVs were to die out, then most automakers would cancel development programs - why develop something the public doesn't want?

    It is unfortunate that this transition in transportation development has coincided with one of the worst financial slumps in decades, and I think what he's really complaining about is automakers having to show EV concepts and some level of eco-commitment at a time when they would rather be doing something easier and cheaper.

    As the news of Model S spreads, the pressure on the manufacturers and vendors of "old tech" is only going to increase.
     
  3. PeterW

    PeterW Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    400
    Location:
    Palmerston North, New Zealand
    Are you saying that the prospect of the Model S is (or is going to) be a major stimulus for the demand of EV's?
     
  4. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,572
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    Harmful to Bosch's market for overpriced ECUs...

    We can certainly hope so. If the car lives up to expectations then it should certainly open a few eyes to what is possible - typically at the level of decision makers.
     
  5. PeterW

    PeterW Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    400
    Location:
    Palmerston North, New Zealand
    some have said that the Tesla roadster will take its place in history as the car
    that started the electric vehicle revival. I hope it will be Tesla Motors with their first three models that pave the way for the electric vehicles of the future.
     
  6. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,142
    I think this is very likely.

    Early EVs may be compared to the early 1980s, brick-like mobile/cell phones - which looked more like military field telephones in shape if not in colour.

    In the late 1990s mobile phones became desirable products through more acceptable styling and improved functionality - exactly what Tesla has achieved with the Roadster.

    It will be interesting to see how far the demand for EVs manages to parallel the growth in personal telecommunications devices:-

    Nokia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    Not a bad idea. Tesla hiring away some of Nokia's logistics people.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,249
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Tesla has used the cellphone analogy many times. Also to point out that people are comfortable leavings their cellphones on chargers over night and not worrying too much about recharge time.

    The EV1 was considered by many a desirable EV (in search of better batteries), so the Roadster will have to share a bit of the history with it. The EV1 will always be immortalized in "Who Killed the Electric Car".
     
  9. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,249
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Are there really that many people doing this? I suppose a Ferrari or Lamborghini dealer could feel a pinch from the Roadster, but the Model S is years away. I suppose it is easy to blame EVs in some small way for the way car sales have stopped due to the economy.

    For a parts supplier like Bosch I think they would be most concerned with mass market sales of lower priced vehicles which consume a lot more of the parts they build.
     
  10. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,913
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    #10 doug, Mar 6, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
    I've heard reports of people waiting till 2010 so that their next car can be electric (at the level of the Volt at least). There I don't think the motivation is about obsolete technology, more about getting off oil for various reasons. The argument about obsolete technology concerns would be better applied to those waiting for the next generation of electric cars after what's currently available.
     
  11. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,249
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Another theme from "Who Killed the Electric Car" was to point out that GMs lethargic ads for the EV1 were likely due to the fact that they couldn't tout its' benefits too strongly because it made the rest of their product line look bad. At least Tesla won't have to worry about cutting into their own gas car sales.
     
  12. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,142
    There's always that old fear - "never buy version 1.0 of anything" - but early adopters laugh in the face of such concerns anyway.

    Joe Public is trying to quit mass consumption (for economic rather than environmental reasons) and the manufacturers are, understandably, getting nervous.
     
  13. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    Also rembember people are just waiting. Putting purchases off. Darning socks, taping up broken bits.

    These kinds of articles are popping up all over.
     
  14. PeterW

    PeterW Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    400
    Location:
    Palmerston North, New Zealand
    So the answer is yes, EV's are harmful to the market?
    Because the market is ICE vehicles.
    To even look at EV's requires alot of R&D. This would be hard enough during good times let alone with the current economic climate. We (the automotive industry) don't want to work on electric cars but we do not have a choice; others are, so we can not afford to be left behind.

    That is my take on things anyway.

    Thanks Tesla
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,249
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Well, yeah, from the viewpoint of company that wants to make ICE vehicles, having to get your little EV R&D team into making a real production ready product is a pain for them. Tesla basically pushed them to do that for image reasons. But the comment was about consumers, not the manufacturers...

    Has the interest in EVs really gotten to the point that there are enough people waiting on car purchases until the EV they want is made? I don't think so. Some thousands of Tesla and Aptera wait list orders are a tiny blip. I think most people who are choosing not to buy right now are doing it for financial reasons.

    In the end it shouldn't matter too much for Mr. Bohr. Bosch makes parts that will be useful in EVs as well.
     
  16. PeterW

    PeterW Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    400
    Location:
    Palmerston North, New Zealand
    I agree that the drop in demand for vehicles has little to do with the demand for EV's. But Bohr says that it is making things worse. He is talking about a discrepancy between the cars that are available now and the public expectation of what will be available in the near future.
    He says that expectation is unfounded.
     
  17. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Herndon, VA
    I for one am waiting on my next purchase to get the Model S or whatever equivalent comes out first. My decision has nothing to do with financial times. Just that my car will last until I can get a new one that I want. If I needed to get one now I would buy and ICE I suppose. I doubt that I would even buy a Prius or something like that. Just not my style.
     
  18. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,142
    #18 malcolm, Mar 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
     
  19. GregHudson

    GregHudson Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2015
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Australia
    Is it possible that some programmers (working at Tesla) have managed to write some software to bypass all/most of what Bosch is currently selling? e.g. ABS, ESC, Radar Cruise, Lane detect, etc etc...
    Could it just be sour grapes ?
    GH
     
  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    Minnesota
    This thread is six years old.
    The original statement had nothing to do with Tesla bypassing Bosch as the Model S was a drawing at that point.
     

Share This Page