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Yeah they have to get off the freeway for .1 to .3 miles each charging.
"With most of the Superchargers just a few tenths of a mile off of the interstate, there wasn’t much loss of time in getting to/from the chargers either."
Across The Country: 4,180 Kilometers In A Tesla Model S (CleanTechnica Exclusive)
For example the casino/hotel supercharger off highway 15, 200+ miles off LA. You take exit, drive 20 seconds. Make a right at the stop sign, drive 10 seconds and bam Supercharger station.
You don't think I did my homework did you? I didn't mention supercharging because its pointless. It adds about 3-5 miles altogether (interstate exit/re-entry) tops.
@stopcrazypp
You want me to believe that this cross-country trip which has been done many times is somehow significant to Tesla's FSD near-complete progress and their supposed "massive lead". Yet even the AP1 when it first came out was able to cross country with 96% on autonomy. Why? it's because highway driving is EASY. Especially on the interstate. It is no indicator of actual urban fully self driving. I once drove to Toronto before and once I got on the freeway I drove hundreds of miles without even changing lanes. Just going and going. Cross-country drive consists of just staying in your lane and off-ramp/on-ramp which AP1 was supposed to do.
"Approximately 96 percent of our drive was on Autopilot. Yes. Ninety-six percent, which translates to approximately 44 hours of driving without human intervention. I did about 1/3rd of the human driving, which translates to about half an hour, most of it in NYC traffic."
http://jalopnik.com/we-set-a-cross-country-record-in-a-telsa-that-drove-its-1739410767
Lets be clear, the air will be let out of this whole cross country drive PR stunt if EAP actually gets close to being feature complete and released before December. Why? because someone will do a 100% end to end cross country drive without a single touch on the highway. Using only EAP, which is just only a L2 Driver Assistance I might add. With the difference now being that it uses the two rear looking cameras to lane-change rather than the limited ultrasonics.
You want me to believe that this cross-country trip which has been done many times is somehow significant to Tesla's FSD near-complete progress and their supposed "massive lead". Yet even the AP1 when it first came out was able to cross country with 96% on autonomy. Why? it's because highway driving is EASY. Especially on the interstate. It is no indicator of actual urban fully self driving. I once drove to Toronto before and once I got on the freeway I drove hundreds of miles without even changing lanes. Just going and going. Cross-country drive consists of just staying in your lane and off-ramp/on-ramp which AP1 was supposed to do.
"Approximately 96 percent of our drive was on Autopilot. Yes. Ninety-six percent, which translates to approximately 44 hours of driving without human intervention. I did about 1/3rd of the human driving, which translates to about half an hour, most of it in NYC traffic."
http://jalopnik.com/we-set-a-cross-country-record-in-a-telsa-that-drove-its-1739410767
Lets be clear, the air will be let out of this whole cross country drive PR stunt if EAP actually gets close to being feature complete and released before December. Why? because someone will do a 100% end to end cross country drive without a single touch on the highway. Using only EAP, which is just only a L2 Driver Assistance I might add. With the difference now being that it uses the two rear looking cameras to lane-change rather than the limited ultrasonics.
What I find interesting about EAP is it's supposed to change lanes automatically without any human input telling it to. Which is rather interesting for an L2 system. Since it's making an important decision with the assumption that you'll override it if it screws up.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I just went and plugged things into the plugshare trip planner (los angeles to new york city). It defaults to a 6 mile radius search and 28 superchargers along the way. The only route it messes up is in Pennsylvania, where it suggests an impractical 314 mile trip from Macedonia to Bloomsburg (only the 100D might be able to make it if going at slower speeds). I replace the last two stations (Bloomsburg and Tannersville) with Cranberry, Somerset , Harrisburg, and Allentown for a total of 30 stations.
According to Google maps, if every stop was taken along the way, there are 50.5 miles of off highway travel, an average of 1.7 miles per stop. If stops are skipped to get it down to 20 stations, there is still 37.1 miles of off highway travel. That's way more than just 3-5 miles tops.
While there are some stops (12) that are only a fraction of a mile off the highway, there are also some that are a lot farther away (for example St. George and Mishawaka are each more than 5 miles off).
As a side note, I noticed Google Maps saying there are lots of construction zones along the way, so things will be interesting even on the highway.
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That plugshare map is grossly outdated from what I can tell.
It shows California for example having only 2 superchargers while the tesla map shows it having more than 20.
Find Us | Tesla
Automated Snake Charger will be installed on stops that Tesla will use.
Using EV Trip Planner (13 stops)
TOTAL 7.6 miles ( about .5 miles each)
After 270.4 Miles (.1 to supercharger)
Take exit 141 for River Rd toward W Broadway 147.0
Turn left onto W Broadway St/Historic U.S. 66 147.0
Turn right onto Pashard St
Destination will be on the left 147.1
Needles Supercharger
Westside Shell 2451 Needles HWY Needles, CA 92363 Needles CA
After 209.7 Miles (.5 to supercharger)
Take exit 341 for Mc Connell Drive 146.6
Turn left onto E McConnell Dr 146.8
Turn left onto S Beulah Blvd 147.0
Turn left at S Woodlands Village Blvd147.1
Turn right 147.1
Turn left 147.1
Turn left
Destination will be on the left 147.1
Charge at Flagstaff Supercharger
Courtyard Marriott Flagstaff 2650 South Beulah Blvd Flagstaff, AZ 86001 Flagstaff AZ
After 181.7 Miles (.2 to supercharger)
Take exit 16 for NM-118/Interstate 40 Business toward W.Gallup 181.5
Turn right onto NM-118 E/W Historic Hwy 66/Rte 66 181.6
Turn right at the 1st cross street onto Indian Service Rte 7025/Twin Buttes Rd 181.6
Turn left 181.6
Turn left 181.7
Turn right 181.7
Charge at Gallup Supercharger
Hampton Inn Gallup 111 Twin Buttes Rd Gallup, NM 87301 Gallup NM
After 262.7 Miles (.4 to supercharger)
Santa Rosa Supercharger
Holiday Inn Express Santa Rosa 2516 Historic Route 66 Santa Rosa, NM 88435 Santa Rosa NM
After 264.5 Miles (1.6 to supercharger)
Shamrock Supercharger
U-Drop Inn 107 East 12th Street Shamrock, TX 79079 Shamrock TX
after 284.3 miles (1.0 to supercharger)
Catoosa Supercharger
777 W. Cherokee St. Catoosa, Oklahoma United States 74015 Catoosa OK
after 177.9 miles (.3 to supercharger)
Springfield, MO Supercharger
3050 N. Kentwood Ave. Springfield, Missouri United States 65803-4414 Springfield MO
after 110.1 miles (.7 to supercharger)
Rolla Supercharger
1705 Martin Springs Drive Rolla, Missouri United States 65401 Rolla MO
after 221.8 miles (.5 to supercharger)
Effingham Supercharger
Jack Flash - Effingham 1200 N. Keller Drive Effingham, IL 62401 Effingham IL
after 144.8 miles (.5 to supercharger)
Indianapolis Supercharger
La Quinta South Indianapolis 5120 Victory Dr Indianapolis, IN 46201 Indianapolis IN
after 178.3 miles (.8 to supercharger)
Grove City Supercharger
Derby Square Shopping Center 2221 Stringtown Rd Grove City, OH 43123 Grove City OH
after 240.2 miles (.5 to supercharger)
Somerset Supercharger
Wendy's 1030 North Center Avenue Somerset, PA 15501 Somerset PA
after 140.1 miles (.5 to supercharger)
Harrisburg Supercharger
3819 Union Deposit Rd Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17109 United States Harrisburg PA
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Reciprocity
Active Member
You forgot to account for Elon dynamically changing the route from NY to Toronto then to West Palm Beach, Florida then back to NY.
Why would they need to install an automated snake charger? Just have a guy waiting at the superchargers ready to plug it in. I'm sure they'll have follow and lead cars... probably multiple follow/leads... partly to provide a 'lock on' vehicle for the Tesla, but also they'd have them there for safety and PR and so on. One of those guys could also just hop out and plug it in. It's a PR demo - no need to deploy some new charger tech for this one.
I remember seeing this video:
I know we're already derailing the thread. But, if you think about the billions and billions that are being sunk into the field... I mean for that kind of cash you could probably upgrade the highway road network pretty significantly with a more advanced track and save all the HD mapping...
I remember seeing this video:
I know we're already derailing the thread. But, if you think about the billions and billions that are being sunk into the field... I mean for that kind of cash you could probably upgrade the highway road network pretty significantly with a more advanced track and save all the HD mapping...
He didn't say he would do that. He was talking about the possibilities that the car isn't limited to only one route. That they could go from settle to ny or la to Toronto if they wanted to.
He never talked about merging routes.
He stayed firm that it will be parking lot in LA to parking lot in ny
And i'm guessing you haven't driven threw Canada border or you won't say that.
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Its amazing how many myths are created daily.
"We should be able to go...all the way from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in NY"
"The thing that will be interesting is that I'm fairly confident it will be able to do that route even if you change the route dynamically."
"its fairly easy if you say I'm gonna be really good at one specific route that's one thing"
"It should be able to go and be very good assuming once you enter a highway to go anywhere on the highway system in a given country"
"Its not limited to LA to NY we can change it and make it Seattle to NY that day in real time"
"So you were going to LA to NY now go from LA to Toronto"
LA to NY
or LA to Toronto
or Washington To NY
Start to Finish
One route
Cross Country
NOT:
LA to NY to FLORIDA to Washington to Toronto and back to LA.
Multiple append routes
Criss-Cross Country
Notice how he also said "assuming once you enter a Highway" and "highway system".
What they are really demoing is highway autonomy and not urban street autonomy.
Its not even a discussion, its outright fact, from Map directions data and actual Elon statements.
@Reciprocity @stopcrazypp
"We should be able to go...all the way from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in NY"
"The thing that will be interesting is that I'm fairly confident it will be able to do that route even if you change the route dynamically."
"its fairly easy if you say I'm gonna be really good at one specific route that's one thing"
"It should be able to go and be very good assuming once you enter a highway to go anywhere on the highway system in a given country"
"Its not limited to LA to NY we can change it and make it Seattle to NY that day in real time"
"So you were going to LA to NY now go from LA to Toronto"
LA to NY
or LA to Toronto
or Washington To NY
Start to Finish
One route
Cross Country
NOT:
LA to NY to FLORIDA to Washington to Toronto and back to LA.
Multiple append routes
Criss-Cross Country
Notice how he also said "assuming once you enter a Highway" and "highway system".
What they are really demoing is highway autonomy and not urban street autonomy.
Its not even a discussion, its outright fact, from Map directions data and actual Elon statements.
@Reciprocity @stopcrazypp
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“It will do this without the need for a single touch, including the charger,” says Musk.
So we will know very easily the route that tesla takes by looking at which supercharger is automated.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Hopefully everyone saw the article about the update today:
Tesla releases important new Autopilot update removing Autosteer restrictions in new cars
Tesla releases important new Autopilot update removing Autosteer restrictions in new cars
Reciprocity
Active Member
Do you know what it will mean when Tesla demonstrates highway autonomy? It will mean they have a huge lead on everyone else. They will have demoed coast to coast full autonomy and have over 100,000 cars equipped and more then likely activated as a safety feature until it can be approved by regulators who will be falling over each other to get it done to take credit for saving thousands of lives. And where will Intel be? Same place they are today, paying 15 billion for the chip that can't see a giant semi truck passing across it's face.
Musk has stated we're (at least) two years away for FSD.
Tesla posted the FSD demonstration video last fall, and we still don't have AP2 operating as well as AP1 (though the latest release seems to be closer).
Demonstrating a coast-to-coast trip, without human interaction is a major milestone - but only a demonstration of what is possible, not proof that the software is almost ready for release (which would be great, but highly unlikely).
For large software projects, doing demonstrations that appear to be fully functional has risks - it gives the appearance the software is close to being ready for release - when the software developers know they've taken some shortcuts to get the demo working, and that a real release requires handling many "edge cases" that would have to be addressed before it can be used in the real world.
A coast-to-coast demo this year would be a positive sign that Tesla could be on track for delivery sometime in 2019. This is a critical proof-of-concept milestone for a project of this complexity.
Though even if FSD is ready next year, we should see some of those capabilities in "driver assist" mode sometime in 2018.
Tesla posted the FSD demonstration video last fall, and we still don't have AP2 operating as well as AP1 (though the latest release seems to be closer).
Demonstrating a coast-to-coast trip, without human interaction is a major milestone - but only a demonstration of what is possible, not proof that the software is almost ready for release (which would be great, but highly unlikely).
For large software projects, doing demonstrations that appear to be fully functional has risks - it gives the appearance the software is close to being ready for release - when the software developers know they've taken some shortcuts to get the demo working, and that a real release requires handling many "edge cases" that would have to be addressed before it can be used in the real world.
A coast-to-coast demo this year would be a positive sign that Tesla could be on track for delivery sometime in 2019. This is a critical proof-of-concept milestone for a project of this complexity.
Though even if FSD is ready next year, we should see some of those capabilities in "driver assist" mode sometime in 2018.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I cross checked with the Tesla map actually (as well as Google maps). Do note the grey points on the supercharger map are not in service yet, only the red ones are.
Are you sure you set the filters correctly for plugshare (it should be to "Tesla Supercharger")? Also, the plugshare map dynamically loads based on zoom level. However, if you use the trip planner, this factor is eliminated, as it just searches within 6 mile radius of the route.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yes, if you just cherry pick the superchargers that are a fraction of a mile and risk going on legs well over 200 miles, you might get a route like yours. But notice even in your route, it is almost 8 miles of off highway, more than the 3-5 miles tops you suggested.
I highly doubt they will use legs more than 200 miles long as that is slower than stopping and certainly they won't risk going on multiple 260-280 mile legs, especially in the winter. If they end up running out of charge and need to be towed, that would be horrible PR. It would also require them to absolutely charge to 100%, which takes a lot longer.
This is the route plugshare suggests (again, only I adjusted the last 4 stations to make it possible to travel without driving a 100D at slow speeds):
Station : Miles : Off Highway
Rancho Cucamonga : 46 : 1.5
Barstow : 65 : 0.6
Primm : 118 : 0.5
Las Vegas Blvd South : 36 : 1.3
Las Vegas : 9 : 1.8
St. George : 122 : 5
Beaver : 106 : 0.4
Richfield : 64 : 0.7
Green River : 123 : 3.1
Grand Junction : 98 : 3.3
Glenwood Springs : 90 : 1.9
Silverthorne : 94 : 0.7
Brush : 154 : 2.1
Ogallala : 124 : 0.9
Gothenburg : 86 : 0.9
Grand Island : 104 : 1.9
Lincoln : 94 : 2.2
Council Bluffs : 59 : 0.5
West Des Moines : 119 : 0.8
Coralville : 120 : 2
Peru : 144 : 2.9
Country Club Hills : 80 : 0.7
Mishawaka : 92 : 5.7
Angola : 68 : 1
Maumee : 76 : 1.2
Macedonia : 126 : 0.5
Cranberry : 95 : 1.6
Somerset : 84 : 0.7
Harrisburg : 139 : 2.8
Allentown : 74 : 1.3
TOTALS : 2809 : 50.5
(note there is still 97 miles to NYC not included in the 2809 miles here)
This is the 20 station route with skipped stops (I aimed to have more than 100 miles between stops, but less than 200):
Barstow : 111 : 0.6
Las Vegas : 163 : 1.8
St. George : 122 : 5
Richfield : 170 : 0.7
Green River : 123 : 3.1
Glenwood Springs : 188 : 1.9
Silverthorne : 94 : 0.7
Brush : 154 : 2.1
Ogallala : 124 : 0.9
Grand Island : 190 : 1.9
Council Bluffs : 153 : 0.5
West Des Moines : 119 : 0.8
Coralville : 120 : 2
Peru : 144 : 2.9
Mishawaka : 172 : 5.7
Maumee : 144 : 1.2
Macedonia : 126 : 0.5
Somerset : 179 : 0.7
Harrisburg : 139 : 2.8
Allentown : 74 : 1.3
TOTALS : 2809 : 37.1
I tried the EV Trip planner and set it to the longest range vehicle available (the P100D with 19" wheels, unfortunately it doesn't have 100D yet) and it suggested this 20 stop route, totaling 25.1 miles off highway. Obviously you skipped a lot of stops.
Station : Miles : Off Highway
Burbank : 12 : 0.8
Barstow : 111 : 0.6
Needles : 147 : 0.4
Kingman : 63 : 0.4
Flagstaff : 147 : 0.6
Gallup : 184 : 0.4
Albuquerque : 144 : 2.5
Santa Rosa : 117 : 0.6
Amarillo : 165 : 2.6
Shamrock : 99 : 1.8
Oklahoma City : 157 : 1
Catoosa : 127 : 1.3
Joplin : 100 : 0.8
Rolla : 177 : 1
St. Charles : 105 : 3.3
Effingham : 116 : 0.7
Indianapolis : 146 : 0.6
Grove City : 178 : 1.2
Triadelphia : 141 : 1
Somerset : 99 : 0.7
Harrisburg : 139 : 2.8
TOTALS : 2674 : 25.1
(170 miles left to NYC)
As for snake chargers, I don't see why they are necessary. They can just have the engineer in the car (or the following vehicle) plug the car in when it reaches the supercharger stop.
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Its over. its done.
Its 7.6 miles, deal with it. About the same miles/stops others have traveled while doing cross country.
“It will do this without the need for a single touch, including the charger,” says Musk.
Elon directly contradicts you. unless in this case Elon statement doesn't amount to anything cause it doesn't fit your agenda? That won't be surprising would it? you have a knock at attempting to twist things to look your way.
But we both know that we will know very easily the route that tesla takes by looking at which supercharger is automated.
its over man, you were wrong. let it go...
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(personal aspects of the following quote removed, for clarity)
We're trying to compare the accident rates for self-driving vehicles vs human-driven vehicles, so the problem with these numbers is trying to separate out the accidents 'caused' by the vehicle in question. For example, I can't see it reasonable to include accidents where a vehicle is rear-ended through no fault of the driver (self of human). Self-driving technology can do nothing for that class of accident (at least for the car that gets rear-ended), and until the percentage of self-driving cars on the road is large enough, the statistical impact will be minimal.
Assuming a venn diagram of (a) vehicle A 100% at fault, (b) vehicle B 100% at fault, and (c) both at fault to some extent, a reasonable analysis would have to separate out the accidents into those classes. A 'ball park approach' of assuming (c) is zero and someone is always more at fault, would change the goalpost to 1 in 1million for accidents caused in the most part by a particular vehicle. That's probably a reasonable starting point for the comparison.
We're trying to compare the accident rates for self-driving vehicles vs human-driven vehicles, so the problem with these numbers is trying to separate out the accidents 'caused' by the vehicle in question. For example, I can't see it reasonable to include accidents where a vehicle is rear-ended through no fault of the driver (self of human). Self-driving technology can do nothing for that class of accident (at least for the car that gets rear-ended), and until the percentage of self-driving cars on the road is large enough, the statistical impact will be minimal.
Assuming a venn diagram of (a) vehicle A 100% at fault, (b) vehicle B 100% at fault, and (c) both at fault to some extent, a reasonable analysis would have to separate out the accidents into those classes. A 'ball park approach' of assuming (c) is zero and someone is always more at fault, would change the goalpost to 1 in 1million for accidents caused in the most part by a particular vehicle. That's probably a reasonable starting point for the comparison.
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