Fairfax County property tax appeal

[uberanalyst]

Just got my bill yesterday from Fairfax County with an assessed value of $114,000 for a 2015 P85D we purchased new back in April.

If you think about the $7500 tax rebate on new Model S autos, nobody would pay that much for my car used.

Anyone have suggestions on how to suggest a lower value if I decide to fight this?

Thanks!

 

[tiblot]

Just got my bill yesterday from Fairfax County with an assessed value of $114,000 for a 2015 P85D we purchased new back in April.

If you think about the $7500 tax rebate on new Model S autos, nobody would pay that much for my car used.

Anyone have suggestions on how to suggest a lower value if I decide to fight this?

Thanks!

They don't care. They take the value of the car @ Jan 1 so it doesnt take into account depreciation up to now. Year one its gonna be 95% of the MSRP off the electronic January edition of the NADA. We all know its inflated -- I tried to fight it last year and didn't have any luck

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I have over 45K on the 2013 P85 and 25K on the 2014 P85+ NADA does factor that mileage in..

 

[tiblot]

I have over 45K on the 2013 P85 and 25K on the 2014 P85+ NADA does factor that mileage in..

Yeah true. You can appeal for high mileage. Here's the deny I got this year:

Thank you for your email. This car is assessed using the CPI book for collectibles. We assessed at 80 percent of the good value in that guidebook for 2015 to get the value of $63,140. The vehicle is assessed at January 1, 2015 and the NADA figures you pulled up are from today’s date. When we use NADA it is the clean trade in value used. We can reassess for body damage of the vehicle to bring it down to average trade in value. I have included the appeal form here. We will need this and pictures of body damage to the vehicle or you may schedule an appointment to bring the vehicle in to have it looked at and assessed. This vehicle is considered collectible and because of that high mileage appeals do not have any effect on the valuation.


Why the hell is our car consider a collectible??

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Just got mine tonight - 2013 P85 loaded is $2717 and valued at $71,040 and 2014 P85+ is $1800 and valued at $71,300 (got it in April 2014). need to start my appeal paperwork... arrggghh. I am totally confused.. it suspect it has to do with the purchase price - I paid about $45K less for the 2014 used... so this must be coming into play - another reason not to buy new!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Vehicle Assessment Appeal Form
For Condition of Vehicle or For High Mileage Adjustment
For personal property assessments, state law requires that car values (1) be from a recognizedpricing guide as of January 1 of the tax year; and, (2) be applied uniformly to the class ofproperty being assessed for local taxes.
To meet these requirements, Fairfax County uses the January edition of the National AutomobileDealers Association (NADA) Official Used Car Guide. Fairfax County uses the Clean Trade-Invalue assuming Clean Condition, as defined by NADA. In doing so, DTA uses the posted value.
Under §58.1-3503(B) of the Code of Virginia, the assessed value of a vehicle can be appealed bythe taxpayer based on the actual condition of property in question. Under the law the taxpayerhas the burden of proof to show that a vehicle’s value is less than the assessment, based on thecondition of the property (for example, you might submit an appraisal that documents condition,or submit an insurance company’s estimate to repair body damage). You can also submitphotographs to document condition, (VIN, exact damage, and license plate) or make anappointment with DTA to examine the vehicle ([email protected]). Please remember,the assessment reflects the value “as of January 1st”, so it is the condition of the vehicle as of thatdate that is pertinent.
If your appeal is for a high mileage adjustment, please attach a copy of the latest State SafetyInspection slip, vehicle repair receipt or a similar document to verify odometer reading.Adjustments are based on NADA high mileage tables.
Deliver Appeal Form to: DTA, PERSONAL PROPERTY DIVISION
12000 Government Center Parkway, Suite 261, Fairfax, Va. 22035Phone: 703-222-8234; Fax: 703-324-4171; TTY : 703-222-7594www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dta; [email protected]

 

[CatB]

Just got my bill yesterday from Fairfax County with an assessed value of $114,000 for a 2015 P85D we purchased new back in April.

How can that be? I just checked design studio and it shows base price for P85D to be 105K. I thought they didn't tax options, so 105K should be the price they use.

Shame you can't be super-literal, reference the tax lingo quoted by Xenoilphone and tell them "on January 1st, the vehicle was nothing but a dream, you can't tax that."

 

[Treker56]

Got my bill for 2013 60 kWh with 32k miles .. assessed value of $54k with a tax bill of $1939! wow - I am going to dispute. This virginia tax is crazy takes away all the savings from gas!

 

[Max*]

Has anyone successfully disputed it?

I still haven't gotten my bill, but considering my car was new when I got it, I got a pretty good idea of how much it'll be.

 

[Treker56]

Just got this reply. This is mind boggling. Almost makes me want to move to Maryland! Can't we do something about this as Virginia residents and voters? Whom to write to to complain? The Governor's office?

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the assessed value for your 2013 Tesla. . The statutes which govern personal property assessments for automobiles require the value to be from a recognized pricing guide, applied uniformly and as of January 1 of the tax year. Because your 2013 Tesla 60 kWh Model S did not have a clean trade in value on January 1, 2014 it was assessed at 90% of the CPI MSRP of $62,400 for tax year 2014. In tax year 2015 the 2013 Tesla 60 kWh Model S has a clean trade in value. In accordance with the Virginia State Code the vehicle was assessed using the uniformed pricing guide as of January 1, 2015.
Mileage must also be as of the January 1 assessment date. If your current mileage is 31,000, then your January 1 mileage would fall within the typical annual mileage and according to the Black Books and the NADA Guide is not considered excessive.

 

[Max*]

Just got this reply. This is mind boggling. Almost makes me want to move to Maryland! Can't we do something about this as Virginia residents and voters? Whom to write to to complain? The Governor's office?

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the assessed value for your 2013 Tesla. . The statutes which govern personal property assessments for automobiles require the value to be from a recognized pricing guide, applied uniformly and as of January 1 of the tax year. Because your 2013 Tesla 60 kWh Model S did not have a clean trade in value on January 1, 2014 it was assessed at 90% of the CPI MSRP of $62,400 for tax year 2014. In tax year 2015 the 2013 Tesla 60 kWh Model S has a clean trade in value. In accordance with the Virginia State Code the vehicle was assessed using the uniformed pricing guide as of January 1, 2015.
Mileage must also be as of the January 1 assessment date. If your current mileage is 31,000, then your January 1 mileage would fall within the typical annual mileage and according to the Black Books and the NADA Guide is not considered excessive.

Your 2013 Tesla was assessed at $62k in 2014.
Looking at the CPO site, 2014 S60 (in 2015, so 1 year old also) is going for $67k in DC area now.

Seems fair to me, or am I missing something?

 

[AMPUP]

Fairfax county and Virginia is car unfriendly... Basically they suck.... What am I getting for my $2700 in tax a year . I'll keep this vehicle for 5 years and pay approx $10k in additional tax, on top of the $5k I paid to purchase..... Virginia tax administration sucks donkey b@lls.....

 

[Xenoilphobe]

yes name one service they provide that you can't live without?

 

[JST]

Total tax burden in VA is still laughably low compared to friends in MD and NJ. But these valuation issues show why it's so dumb for VA localities to get such a large percentage of their revenue from personal property taxes.

 

[Max*]

Eh, the tax man gets his share one way or another (sales tax, car tax, property tax, etc.). You want good schools? You want good roads? etc. you pay for it.

I agree that the assessed car value is a little iffy, but I would expect anyone living here to know that they'll get nailed in taxes for a new car.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

i have no issues paying taxes, my issue is with the folks using the services who don't pay in. Fairfax has no plan on how to address illegals who are taking services and not paying into the tax base. FCPS is $80M in the hole due to this issue.

Example: i sell my car to a guy I know lives in Herndon, but he takes it to Pennsylvania to register it to avoid paying into higher tax base. Yet his kids go to school in FFX... but don't pay a single dollar into the tax base to support the services!!! It gets worse. 15 kids get bused from Manassas to their "Grandmothers" house to catch the bus to a FFX school - they don't pay a dime into the system. Multiple that across the county and you a number like $80M once you add in subsidized breakfast and lunch, SAC, full classrooms and overworked teacher.

I want good roads - I'm not getting them and I get taxed on that too (tolls). The schools are falling far behind and the top talent is fleeing to Loudon and other counties where they can get away from the burdens of dealing with kids who demand every service, but can't speak the language and don't have a support network to pass the SOL which further erodes the quality of the schools We have a major issue - and no plan to fix it

 

[Max*]

But what can FFX really do to enforce it? It's one of the fastest growing counties in the nation. They can split FCPS in two divisions (I've heard of plans for that), but I'm not sure what that'll do.

We moved from one FFX county school district to another FFX county school district to get better schools for when my kids go to school next year. And I've been watching the whole FCPS finance debacle, and I agree, it sucks. But I'd rather live in FFX county over Loudon, considering the proximity to the highway and DC.

Example: i sell my car to a guy I know lives in Herndon, but he takes it to Pennsylvania to register it to avoid paying into higher tax base. Yet his kids go to school in FFX... but don't pay a single dollar into the tax base to support the services!!!

That's a risk he's willing to take. If the guy registered in PA gets his car stolen/into an accident, he *may* be in deeper trouble than he thinks. I personally know someone who's car was stolen in NY, but that person illegally registered his car in PA with the thought of "hey, I can save on taxes". When he reported it stolen, the insurance company said "hold on, we see you also have a residence in NY, and work in NY, we're not covering your claim at all". Thankfully, it was just a joyride and he got his car back with minimal damage.

I want good roads - I'm not getting them and I get taxed on that too (tolls).

FFX and Loundon have REALLY good roads, I wouldn't complain. I've lived/visited enough other places to realize this.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I did the same thing you did - moved to a neighborhood that had the top elementary school in the county. Then a new school board member redistricted and our school now buses in kids who drove the SOL scores into the ditch. Thankfully my kids were already out of the school, but it is having a direct impact on property values and like you the smart people look at school scores before they even consider a neighborhood.

You are correct our roads are pretty good, but you would never know that by the amount of wheel damaging events I have had with 21's in NOVA.

 

[fryfrye]

My tax bill showed up --- and my 2013 S85 went UP from 65k to 66960. Fairfax county claims to use NADA Clean Trade Guide... which last year did NOT value the 2013 model S, but this year it does (2013 Tesla Motors Model S Sedan 4D Electric Prices, Values & Model S Sedan 4D Electric Price Specs | NADAguides) .

I've requested the source of this year's values -- has anyone started an appeals process yet?

ff

 

[neroden]

Sales tax on the car (no exemptions), no state incentive, EV registration tax to make up for the taxes we don't pay because we're not buying gas, and yearly personal property tax. Yeah Virginia sucks. Why am I living here again?

I don't know. Cheap housing? The right to vote for a member of Congress? If you don't care about the latter, the District of Columbia is always looking for new well-to-do citizens. And if you do care about voting rights, there's Maryland. I'm sure there's cheap housing somewhere in Maryland -- commute from Baltimore?

The Virginia situation is pretty odd. It's actually pretty unusual to have both sales tax *and* a personal property tax on the same item. On real estate, where you pay property tax, you generally don't pay sales tax (can you imagine, 8% sales tax on house purchases?). The extra "damn you EVs" registration tax adds insult to injury.

Given the current laws, I think the best route for appeal by those who insist on living in Virginia is to get actual value assessments from insurance companies and from actual sales. If the county assessment is way out of line, they'll probably have to bring it into line. The NADA Clean Trade-In numbers actually look about right when they exist, so it's mostly people whose models aren't in the book who have a good chance of appeal -- or, of course, if the county is not using the number from the NADA book, as seems to be the case for fryfrye.

 

[Max*]

I don't know. Cheap housing?

lol, what?