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FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

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I could technically read that plus 86-306(1)(b) to permit multiple 50A outlets on a single 50A branch circuit supplying no other loads than EV charging loads. If only one of 2 receptacles is being used at any given time, then no other loads are attached. And unlike 86-306(1)(a) which specifies a "single receptacle" for 125V/20A or less, 86-306(1)(b) has no "single receptacle" text. Without the specific text I can't see if there's any other gotchas, but hey... :)

Yeah, or I was thinking if you don't specifically say that the NEMA 14-50's are for EV charging, you might get away with that. But I come back to your earlier comments about how the insurance company may feel if there was ever a problem and it was determined that the outlets were used by EVSE... I doubt the intent of 86-300 is to allow multiple EVSE on the one circuit. The other thing is that any wiring done for EV charging requires a compulsory inspection (other wiring may not if done by a "pre-qualified" electrician), and again if you don't specify the purpose of the outlet(s) you may get away with no inspection, but (in Ontario) it's probably not worth the risk from an insurance standpoint among other reasons.
 
Wow, great to see so many responses on this old thread so quickly! Thanks everyone! It sounds, unfortunately, like my interpretation of the law was probably correct -- or more importantly, that my local electrical inspector may interpret it that way. However, I will ask him prior to starting, just to be sure. If he says otherwise, I'll be sure to let people know. Also, good news on the breaker; that practically pays for the 2nd cable run!
 
My two cents. As an electrician, I would recommend separate circuits for each receptacle. However, 210.21B(3) clearly states that two or more receptacles connected to a branch circuit must conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3). That table says that a 50 amp circuit must have 50 amp receptacles. Therefore, two or more receptacles on a single 50 amp circuit must have 50 amp receptacles installed. Charging two cars at the same time will cause the over current device (breaker) to trip, just like trying to use two 1500 watt hair dryers at the same time on the same bathroom circuit. The circuit is properly protected by the breaker. The receptacle is sized for the maximum amperage for the circuit (in the 50 amp case). It is all about fire protection.
 
I wanted to have two 14-50s in my garage for ease of access on the same circuit and my electrician said that was against code. The outlets would not be used at the same time. I'm in Virginia. The rationale was that when I sell the house the new owner may not realize the limitation and try to use both outlets simultaneously. Similarly, wiring both outlets on separate circuits to my sub panel was against code because it exceeded the total amperage of the feed to the panel. I would have kept one of the breakers open. Same problem. I even looked into an A/B switch that would force only one outlet to be connected at a time but it was cost prohibitive.
Can you describe how the A/B switch worked? I have seen lots of disconnect switches for high current loads, but I've not seen one that was A/B - meaning that only one load could be powered at a time. I was thinking of making one with a pair of industrial contactors and a two way light switch. A good application would be a garage with an electric clothes dryer and a 20 to 24A EVSE. You don't want to plug and unplug the dryer all the time, so you just flip the switch and the power would go to the EVSE instead. You could do the same thing to power only one 14-50 at a time, depending on which side of the garage you are parked on.
 
The A-B switch is just a safety switch with an extra set of contacts. They are commonly used as manual transfer switches for backup generators. The center contacts are connected to the top contacts when the switch is up in the A position. In the middle position the switch is off and the center does not make contact with the others. When the switch is in the down position it connects the center contacts with the bottom contacts. These are typically labeled ON-OFF-ON. They come in two pole and three pole flavors. I usually use 100 amp switches but I think you can get them rated 60 amp too. GE makes one. Google manual transfer switch. Get a small ground bar to go with it to keep your grounds and neutrals separated.
 
The A-B switch is just a safety switch with an extra set of contacts. They are commonly used as manual transfer switches for backup generators. The center contacts are connected to the top contacts when the switch is up in the A position. In the middle position the switch is off and the center does not make contact with the others. When the switch is in the down position it connects the center contacts with the bottom contacts. These are typically labeled ON-OFF-ON. They come in two pole and three pole flavors. I usually use 100 amp switches but I think you can get them rated 60 amp too. GE makes one. Google manual transfer switch. Get a small ground bar to go with it to keep your grounds and neutrals separated.
Thanks. I was definitely not searching for it the right way. I don't know why @andrewket thought they were too expensive. HomeDepot.com has a GE 240V 100A "Non-Fused Emergency Power Transfer Switch" for only $118. That is far cheaper than paying an electrician to pull another circuit from the main panel and solves the problem of potential overloading by ensuring that only one socket is connected at a time. However, as you said, this is not plug and play, you would probably need to add a neutral bar and ground bar in this particular box. Eaton (Cutler Hammer) makes one with a neutral bar built-in but the lowest price I found was ~$400. Of course, if you were to use NEMA 6-50 sockets you would not need the neutral, just the L1, L2, GND. EVSEs like Leviton EVB40 (40A J1772) use a NEMA 6-50 plug.
 
The GE transfer switch comes with a neutral bar already installed. Just buy the ground bar. I usually get a 5 hole bar that takes up to a #6 wire which is the normal size. The GE box does not come with mounting holes for the ground bar but just use a 5/32 drill bit to drill holes for it. The screws that come with the ground bar will self tap just fine.
 
Thanks in advance for all the patient answers supplied - and many times, more than once. If someone's already taken a crack at the below, I beg your indulgence, but, to service my HPWC -

I have a goodly supply of #2 in the form of USE-2 RHH/RHW2. That is nasty-stiff, 7-strand Cu good-for-just-about-anywhere cable. I will have 1" conduit, the run from the subpanel will be 5' -LB- 20' -LB- 18' -LB- 5'. The questions I can come up with include:

*Am I going to rather burn my house down than fight trying to manhandle those cables, and should I be better off purchasing a less-fractious wire?

*Am I going to be able to stuff those 7 strands into not only the 100A breaker, but also Tesla's lugs?

*Is THHN easier, marginally easier, no different, or more difficult?

*AND...does NEC and/or good practice permit snipping one...two...strands at the lug in order to thin down an uncooperative cable????

On edit: my electricians (the Solar City crew doing the PV install right now!) cringed at the sight of the USE-2. I think we'll go something a bit more cooperative....they're also thinking wide-sweep 90ºs will be less onerous than LBs. And using TWO conduits (maybe even 3/4" rather than 1") will be best of all.
 
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On edit: my electricians (the Solar City crew doing the PV install right now!) cringed at the sight of the USE-2. I think we'll go something a bit more cooperative....they're also thinking wide-sweep 90ºs will be less onerous than LBs. And using TWO conduits (maybe even 3/4" rather than 1") will be best of all.

From my reply at Post Pictures of HPWC Installations (Residential and Commercial):

100 Amp, 240 Volt Supply using #2 AWG Copper THHN

View attachment 43819

#2 is the max rating of those lugs, and as you can see, is REALLY tight. :eek:

I know that Tesla really likes the sexy industrial design look, but using lugs one size larger would have saved a lot of install pain. You or your electrician should be prepared for a wrestling match with #2. I watched my electrician do the wrestling an my primary residence, and I did the wrestling at my second home.

Other choices with reduced pain are to use #3 (harder to find, and sometimes more expensive) or use #4 and a 90A breaker. A 90A breaker still gives you 72A, 49 mph, charging. Where I did the install at my second home, if I had it to do over, I would have used the #4 instead of the #2.
 
Right - I'd read your comments on the "pic" thread - thanks, Cottonwood. After writing that I also learned that using two conduits (e.g., L1 + neut. in one; L2 & grd in the second) is a no-no. I can't understand why, but we'll run a single 1 1/4" conduit instead. When I've been faced with one of those REALLY tight lugs in the past, I've snipped some of the strands until I can just persuade the wire to where it belongs.

I can't - at this stage of the game ;) - acquiesce to powering down to the #3 or #4 alternatives, as sensible as it probably is... (Like you - Next time!)

 
Hysteresis is the reason you don't separate L1 and L2. If they enter the (metal) cabinet in two separate places you get heating in the metal in between them due to induction. I don't recommend a "haircut" on the conductors either. If the lug is rated for #2 then you should make the #2 fit. Cutting down the strands to make it easy might compromise your install and lead to unintended consequences (read fire) down the road. #2XHHW-2 would be the conductor of choice. USE stands for Underground Service Entrance and has tough insulation as you know.
 
I have a goodly supply of #2 in the form of USE-2 RHH/RHW2. That is nasty-stiff, 7-strand Cu good-for-just-about-anywhere cable. I will have 1" conduit, the run from the subpanel will be 5' -LB- 20' -LB- 18' -LB- 5'. The questions I can come up with include:

*Am I going to rather burn my house down than fight trying to manhandle those cables, and should I be better off purchasing a less-fractious wire?

NEC 338.12(B)(1) states that USE cable, because it's not flame-retardant, may not be used for interior wiring. Type SE can, but not USE. 338.24 requires that bending radius be more than 5 times cable diameter, which is difficult to work with.

*Am I going to be able to stuff those 7 strands into not only the 100A breaker, but also Tesla's lugs?

Any lug rated for the size you're using should be able to use it. You have to make sure torque is right for less strands, though...

*Is THHN easier, marginally easier, no different, or more difficult?

My opinion is that it's slightly more flexible to get it through tight openings, but working with terminations is roughly the same.

*AND...does NEC and/or good practice permit snipping one...two...strands at the lug in order to thin down an uncooperative cable????

No, no, no, no, no!! Snipping a strand reduces surface area by a considerable amount, especially on service-entrance cables!

On edit: my electricians (the Solar City crew doing the PV install right now!) cringed at the sight of the USE-2. I think we'll go something a bit more cooperative....they're also thinking wide-sweep 90ºs will be less onerous than LBs. And using TWO conduits (maybe even 3/4" rather than 1") will be best of all.

Good idea. :) Although I will say that I made an LB work with a bit of finagling for THHN #2.

- - - Updated - - -

Right - I'd read your comments on the "pic" thread - thanks, Cottonwood. After writing that I also learned that using two conduits (e.g., L1 + neut. in one; L2 & grd in the second) is a no-no. I can't understand why, but we'll run a single 1 1/4" conduit instead. When I've been faced with one of those REALLY tight lugs in the past, I've snipped some of the strands until I can just persuade the wire to where it belongs.

Bad idea on the snipping strands... I could go through the surface area calculations for you, but you'll find that you lose current carrying capacity (especially on those wires that have only 7 strands or so).

As for conduits, it's primarily for safety, knowing where the conductors are running. All conductors for a branch circuit must be co-located together, including ungrounded (hot) conductors, grounded conductors (neutral), and grounding conductors (ground).

Don't worry, I was able to fit #2 into the lugs fairly easily. It's a bit snug but they will fit.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, #3 should be fine for a 100A breaker, right? I think it's good up to 110A. Even #4 would technically be up to code for 100A (I think), but probably better to use #3 or #2 if you can.

#3 is fine for 100A breaker. While the NEC allows it to carry up to 110A at 90 degree ratings, every termination must be rated at 90 degrees for this. The HPWC lugs and almost every residential/commercial breaker on the market today are rated only at 75 deg C, so the limit is 100A rating (80A continuous load).

There are a good number of electricians who only carry #2 or #4 - the difference is rather negligible in terms of cost and it means another set of spools you don't have to maintain.
 
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Apologies, other readers. Just your normal confused Alaskan here.

What I meant with post #136, Flasher, is that although it appears you were in agreement with PV-EV, you then wrote:

Missed the dual rating. This is correct - in conduit only inside, the cable assembly may not be used as Romex cables are.


which leaves me as perplexed as before...
 
Apologies, other readers. Just your normal confused Alaskan here.

What I meant with post #136, Flasher, is that although it appears you were in agreement with PV-EV, you then wrote:




which leaves me as perplexed as before...

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse, what I typed was correct. Your USE-2/RHW-2 cable assembly may not be used similar to an NM-B (Romex) assembly. With a 6/2 or 6/3 NM-B cable, you may staple it directly to a stud, without running it in a raceway, when behind wallboard. NM-B may be run exposed in "inaccessible" areas, generally above 7'.

In contrast, when used as an RHW-2 rated conductor, your USE-2/RHW-2 assembly must be run in a raceway/conduit only. It may not be run in walls or along basement ceiling joists, etc, unless it is in a conduit. You must treat it as if it were an individual wire for protection means.