Firmware 6.1

[wk057]

I used this technique as well at my last supercharger. I ended up between -5 and -10% after the first 30 miles or so and ended up slowing down quite a bit. This was before the torque sleep on the P85D though.

Yeah, the estimates were flat out wrong pre-torque sleep. I've found them to be +/- 3% on my latest trip, though, keeping with traffic.

 

[mightydave]

Quick question for those who are more versed in the recent 6.1 updates than I am.

I had my car in for service on Friday. I had a contactor stuck open so they had to do a service on all the contactors in the battery pack (I think they said there were six). Car was undriveable so they did the service immediately and got the car back to me late that night. In the process, they updated me to 2.2.0. I'm not sure what version I was on before.

For the life of the car, the average has been around 360 and has been 384 since I bought it from the original owner two months ago. I just took a 600 mile trip this week in cool weather where I averaged 380 for the trip - driving pretty darn slow.

So after the service, the tech drove the car back to me - roughly 60 highway miles. I could see on the app that speeds were ranging between 70-76 MPH. If that were me driving, it would have been about 390-400. For him, the average was 279! I couldn't believe it. So I drove about 15 miles around town yesterday and averaged 280 with casual driving.

So my question is:

* Is it possible that the contactor replacement lead to some major energy improvement?
* Is it possible that the firmware update lead to that energy improvement?

I'm really hoping this isn't some temporary win. I did four 160 mile legs last week and in each case, I arrived at the destination with less than 10% charge and that was me driving mostly 65-68 MPH.

 

[jerry33]

* Is it possible that the contactor replacement lead to some major energy improvement?
* Is it possible that the firmware update lead to that energy improvement?.

The firmware update might have done some, but not that much. I haven't heard that the contractor replacement has improved energy use.

My suspicions are that the majority of the gains came from:

1. They put some air in the tires.
2. They also did an alignment.
3. It's now warmer weather.

 

[Cottonwood]

I've found this helpful to determine a supercharger departure time. Shaved ~20 minutes of charging time off of my last long drive by just charging until it showed a 5% buffer.

I do the same, but don't cut it so close. I like to depart with 10% or more margin. Here are some results from my trip last week, driving PSL + 7: Superchargers 2015-03 - Google Sheets

Everything was -3%, +4% except for St George to Beaver (-11%) and Silverthorne to Boulder (+7%). Both of these outliers were caused by a combination of reasons. The extra 11% going into Beaver came from headwinds, cooler temps (35-40˚F), a lot of 80 mph speed limit that I don't think is in the model, and uphill. The +7% from Silverthorne to Boulder was from a long construction zone at 55 instead of 65 speed limit, downhill, and slightly slower night driving. It seems that .179 still seems to underestimate energy use on climbs and over estimate it on descents. Because St George to Beaver was the first segment of the day, and I had charged the night before, I left with over 20% buffer. With that buffer, I just kept driving. Had my buffer been more like 10%, I would have started slowing down when the buffer went much below 5%, especially near the beginning.

 

[mknox]

The firmware update might have done some, but not that much. I haven't heard that the contractor replacement has improved energy use.

Prior to my contactor failure and replacement, I couldn't get full 60 kW of re-gen, but now I can again... even this morning at 14 degrees F. I don't see how contactor replacement could have helped here and, in fact, the SC did a firmware update at the same time so I have to believe it was more about software than hardware. Thing is, I was having the re-gen issues across several earlier version of firmware.

 

[Andyw2100]

Prior to my contactor failure and replacement, I couldn't get full 60 kW of re-gen, but now I can again... even this morning at 14 degrees F. I don't see how contactor replacement could have helped here and, in fact, the SC did a firmware update at the same time so I have to believe it was more about software than hardware. Thing is, I was having the re-gen issues across several earlier version of firmware.

You got full, 60kW regen with the car having sat in 14 degree F overnight? That's incredible!

Even if I preheat the car considerably when it's cold, the best I've seen, I think, is regen limited to 30kW. I didn't think it was possible to see more regen available than that with a cold battery. Perhaps there is a change in the software. Did you preheat the car, and if so, for how long? Was it plugged in? Had it recently completed a charge? Details, please! We want details!

 

[mknox]

You got full, 60kW regen with the car having sat in 14 degree F overnight? That's incredible!!

No, sorry... I ment after it had warmed up and the re-gen limit disappears. I have a 40 mile or so commute and even in the cold of winter, I would eventually get to the point where re-gen limits would disappear and I'd get the full 60 kW. For quite some time (warm or cold weather) the re-gen limits would be long gone, but I couldn't get more than 45 kW or so of re-gen even if I dropped right off the accelerator at freeway speeds. Since the contactor replacement, I'm seeing the full 60 kW again (when the limits are gone).

 

[Musterion]

Has this bug been noted anywhere yet? I haven't found it...

In 6.1 (2.2.140):
1. Select/enter a destination in the nav app
2. Drive part of the way there
3. Re-select the same destination without cancelling the first trip (e.g. from the Recent list or from Phone Contacts or Calendar)
4. The trip energy graph will add the full distance of the trip and show a correspondingly low (wrong) arrival battery level.

In the attached picture, the total trip was about 20 km, and when I had 1.3 km left to go, I re-selected the same destination, and then the graph showed that I was 19.8 km into a 40km trip, with the battery predicted to drop from 77% to 72%.

It's easy to fix - just cancel and re-enter your destination.

I asked about a very similar bug here but it did not require re-selecting destination. Happens on its own.
Phantom destination bug in Trip Chart within Energy app

 

[Andyw2100]

No, sorry... I ment after it had warmed up and the re-gen limit disappears. I have a 40 mile or so commute and even in the cold of winter, I would eventually get to the point where re-gen limits would disappear and I'd get the full 60 kW. For quite some time (warm or cold weather) the re-gen limits would be long gone, but I couldn't get more than 45 kW or so of re-gen even if I dropped right off the accelerator at freeway speeds. Since the contactor replacement, I'm seeing the full 60 kW again (when the limits are gone).

Ah, OK. Thanks for clearing that up.

You had gotten my hopes up that Tesla had done something good in software related to pack heating. Oh well.

 

[gpetti]

You got full, 60kW regen with the car having sat in 14 degree F overnight? That's incredible!

Even if I preheat the car considerably when it's cold, the best I've seen, I think, is regen limited to 30kW. I didn't think it was possible to see more regen available than that with a cold battery. Perhaps there is a change in the software. Did you preheat the car, and if so, for how long? Was it plugged in? Had it recently completed a charge? Details, please! We want details!

Funny you should mentions this. I was considering a thread to ask about this as i never seem to get rid of e limit line lately. Last night the garage was abou 23F. it finished charging to 90% around 6.10 after about 1 hour of charging. I started it charging again at 7:00 and turned on the climate control. I got in the car to drive around 7:30 and the regen was limited to 30kw. Half an hour of driving and it had only moved to 40kw limit. I had range off too.

 

[Andyw2100]

Funny you should mentions this. I was considering a thread to ask about this as i never seem to get rid of e limit line lately. Last night the garage was abou 23F. it finished charging to 90% around 6.10 after about 1 hour of charging. I started it charging again at 7:00 and turned on the climate control. I got in the car to drive around 7:30 and the regen was limited to 30kw. Half an hour of driving and it had only moved to 40kw limit. I had range off too.

My thinking is that the pack heating that comes from charging the pack, or from heating it when we preheat the car can't take the pack above a temperature that will allow for more than 30kW of regen. I have never seen the limitation higher than 30kW if the pack had to be heated in any way, no matter how much heating was done. I think the only way to warm the pack beyond that 30kW regen limit is by driving.

As for your example above, where you only gained 10kW of regen in half an hour of driving with range mode off in cold temperatures, that doesn't surprise me at all. If your garage was 23F, I'm guessing it was colder outside, and possibly getting even colder as you drove. Unless you were driving really aggressively, gaining 10kW of regen under those conditions sounds about right.

One night my wife had driven home from work (over 50 miles) and we then went out to dinner. It was cold, but the car didn't show a regen limit, as the battery had been warmed quite a bit from the long highway drive. Shortly before we left the restaurant we preheated the car, to warm the battery. This was a couple of months ago, before we had torque sleep firmware, and we hadn't ever used range mode at this point. I point that out because of what I'm about to tell you. I started driving the car home, uphill, from downtown Ithaca, still with no regen limit. But by the time we got home ten minutes later, I noticed that I had both a regen and a power limitation! I told my wife that the car was telling me I was driving like a wimp! (In my defense, with her in the car I have to, as she is very sensitive to the P85D's acceleration, but I generally drive like a wimp anyway.) It was cold enough and I was driving mellowly enough that the cold was overpowering the heat the car was generating, and the pack was actually getting colder as I drove. (It was below 0F at the time.)

Anyway, the point of all that is that it's not surprising at all that you only gained 10kW of regen in 30 minuted of driving when it was very cold.

 

[gpetti]

My thinking is that the pack heating that comes from charging the pack, or from heating it when we preheat the car can't take the pack above a temperature that will allow for more than 30kW of regen. I have never seen the limitation higher than 30kW if the pack had to be heated in any way, no matter how much heating was done. I think the only way to warm the pack beyond that 30kW regen limit is by driving.

As for your example above, where you only gained 10kW of regen in half an hour of driving with range mode off in cold temperatures, that doesn't surprise me at all. If your garage was 23F, I'm guessing it was colder outside, and possibly getting even colder as you drove. Unless you were driving really aggressively, gaining 10kW of regen under those conditions sounds about right.

One night my wife had driven home from work (over 50 miles) and we then went out to dinner. It was cold, but the car didn't show a regen limit, as the battery had been warmed quite a bit from the long highway drive. Shortly before we left the restaurant we preheated the car, to warm the battery. This was a couple of months ago, before we had torque sleep firmware, and we hadn't ever used range mode at this point. I point that out because of what I'm about to tell you. I started driving the car home, uphill, from downtown Ithaca, still with no regen limit. But by the time we got home ten minutes later, I noticed that I had both a regen and a power limitation! I told my wife that the car was telling me I was driving like a wimp! (In my defense, with her in the car I have to, as she is very sensitive to the P85D's acceleration, but I generally drive like a wimp anyway.) It was cold enough and I was driving mellowly enough that the cold was overpowering the heat the car was generating, and the pack was actually getting colder as I drove. (It was below 0F at the time.)

Anyway, the point of all that is that it's not surprising at all that you only gained 10kW of regen in 30 minuted of driving when it was very cold.

Thanks for confirming this.
On another note, I had a ranger in today to check out a couple of things (fixed my USB ports) and my firmware was updated to .200. Doesn't really seem to be getting pushed out automatically but the SCs seem to be using this.

 

[wk057]

I've found that in cold weather with range mode off the car will run the pack heater, plugged into the wall or not, until the car gets to about 30kW regen (I sat in my driveway with HVAC off and watched it pull power to do this and regen slowly climbed, car not moving). Then it relies on drive train waste heat only. In range mode it won't run the pack heater unless it's super cold, and then only to maintain minimal safe temperatures. In range mode it is drive train waste heat only. This was my experience this past winter when I was curious about it. Not sure if any of this has changed.

The pack heater is not super powerful, though, and it still takes some time to heat the pack. It is trying to warm ~1200 lbs of metal that isn't really insulated from the outside temperature.... unless you consider thick aluminum insulation. While you're moving, cold air is running across the whole bottom of the pack, so it's fighting this too. The cells also warm under load a little.

 

[MikeBur]

Thanks for confirming this.
On another note, I had a ranger in today to check out a couple of things (fixed my USB ports) and my firmware was updated to .200. Doesn't really seem to be getting pushed out automatically but the SCs seem to be using this.

Same here. Got 200 installed on my p85d today at SC too whilst dealing with tire issue. Have not found any changes yet

 

[hobbes]

6.2 out in Germany

THX to ScepticMatt for finding this on the German forum:

EU Market Situation and Outlook - Page 96
TFF Forum - Tesla Fahrer 85D - Erste Erfahrungen

Now doing 250 kph/155 mph speeds :tongue:.

 

[gpetti]

My thinking is that the pack heating that comes from charging the pack, or from heating it when we preheat the car can't take the pack above a temperature that will allow for more than 30kW of regen. I have never seen the limitation higher than 30kW if the pack had to be heated in any way, no matter how much heating was done. I think the only way to warm the pack beyond that 30kW regen limit is by driving.

As for your example above, where you only gained 10kW of regen in half an hour of driving with range mode off in cold temperatures, that doesn't surprise me at all. If your garage was 23F, I'm guessing it was colder outside, and possibly getting even colder as you drove. Unless you were driving really aggressively, gaining 10kW of regen under those conditions sounds about right.

One night my wife had driven home from work (over 50 miles) and we then went out to dinner. It was cold, but the car didn't show a regen limit, as the battery had been warmed quite a bit from the long highway drive. Shortly before we left the restaurant we preheated the car, to warm the battery. This was a couple of months ago, before we had torque sleep firmware, and we hadn't ever used range mode at this point. I point that out because of what I'm about to tell you. I started driving the car home, uphill, from downtown Ithaca, still with no regen limit. But by the time we got home ten minutes later, I noticed that I had both a regen and a power limitation! I told my wife that the car was telling me I was driving like a wimp! (In my defense, with her in the car I have to, as she is very sensitive to the P85D's acceleration, but I generally drive like a wimp anyway.) It was cold enough and I was driving mellowly enough that the cold was overpowering the heat the car was generating, and the pack was actually getting colder as I drove. (It was below 0F at the time.)

Anyway, the point of all that is that it's not surprising at all that you only gained 10kW of regen in 30 minuted of driving when it was very cold.

Just realized that my C to F conversion was off as I did it in my head and I'm used to converting negative numbers. My garage temperature was actually 41 degrees. Not sure if that changes your evaluation but interestingly since getting .200 I never seem to see the regen limit. Not very scientific as our temps are improving too but it has changed from seemingly always limited no matter what I did to not limited at all. Guess the test will be if our temperature dips again.

 

[ScepticMatt]

Now doing 250 kph/155 mph speeds :tongue:.

To clarify they were doing 250 kph running 6.1. (.200) Only one of them got 6.2.

 

[Andyw2100]

Just realized that my C to F conversion was off as I did it in my head and I'm used to converting negative numbers. My garage temperature was actually 41 degrees. Not sure if that changes your evaluation but interestingly since getting .200 I never seem to see the regen limit. Not very scientific as our temps are improving too but it has changed from seemingly always limited no matter what I did to not limited at all. Guess the test will be if our temperature dips again.

As long as it was still significantly colder outside than in your garage, I think what I said would still be about right. I guess if all the temperatures were in the 40s I'd be a little surprised at how long your regen limits stayed as high as they were.

What you are seeing now with .200 and regen limits is interesting. I wonder if Tesla did, in fact change something with respect to pack heating on shore power.

 

[matbe81]

Just got update 2.4.124

Detailled screenshots on: facebook.com/mytesla.be

 

[wayner]

Wrong thread - you are no longer on 6.1.