First time riding in a Waymo Driverless van

[diplomat33]

Sorry, I'm not going to let deceivers go. But would be great if people that are perpetuating the Waymo myth that they have L4 now available to the public stop. It is simple false, a lie, a wrong doing.

It is not a lie. They are not deceiving anyone. Stop it!

 

[DanCar]

It is not a lie. They are not deceiving anyone. Stop it!

No videos since early january and you really believe it readily available to public? How absurd. When you post your absurdities, please post a disclaimer that you live in the land of fantasy. When it is true, we will get people here commenting how cool it is, with video. Also I know people at Waymo, and they know they don't have a public driverless system available. And they have a goal announced yet again last year to launch such service this year.

 

[murc585]

I get that as well and Tesla needs competitors to keep them on their toes regardless. It will be an interesting few years.

Shall we call the winner the first to:
1) drive (without causing an accident) from point A to B in the USA with no human in vehicle or remote control.
2) do so without needing a human to re-charge/refuel the vehicle
3) do so year-round in rain/sun/night/snow/hail
4) if there's a tie, the solution with the lowest cost per trip wins.

??

No takers? I had a feeling this would scare off those who think Waymo/Cruise have a better chance of real-world FSD.

 

[diplomat33]

No videos since early january and you really believe it readily available to public? How absurd. When you post your absurdities, please post a disclaimer that you live in the land of fantasy. When it is true, we will get people here commenting how cool it is, with video. Also I know people at Waymo, and they know they don't have a public driverless system available. And they have a goal announced yet again last year to launch such service this year.

Really? You know people at Waymo who say that Waymo is lying. Show us proof then. You can't just claim that "anonymous source said so". That is not reliable proof.

 

[diplomat33]

I get that as well and Tesla needs competitors to keep them on their toes regardless. It will be an interesting few years.

Shall we call the winner the first to:
1) drive (without causing an accident) from point A to B in the USA with no human in vehicle or remote control.
2) do so without needing a human to re-charge/refuel the vehicle
3) do so year-round in rain/sun/night/snow/hail
4) if there's a tie, the solution with the lowest cost per trip wins.

??

Waymo already did #1 in 2015. So Waymo is already in the lead of your own criteria.

#2 should not count. The ability to recharge or refuel is separate from the car's ability to drive on a public road without interventions. In other words, you can have a car that is L5 and still needs a human to recharge or refuel.

 

[murc585]

Waymo already did #1 in 2015. So Waymo is already in the lead of your own criteria.

#2 should not count. The ability to recharge or refuel is separate from the car's ability to drive on a public road without interventions. In other words, you can have a car that is L5 and still needs a human to recharge or refuel.

Really, Waymo can drive anywhere in the USA in the winter?

 

[DanCar]

Really? You know people at Waymo who say that Waymo is lying. Show us proof then. You can't just claim that "anonymous source said so". That is not reliable proof.

What does driverless taxi mean? When waymo says this they mean potential, they mean it can. I consider it a mistruth, and graduates to a lie when they claim it is available to the public. How many people think it is a lie versus a play on words? There is enough proof in the lack of video. If it were publicly available there would be regular videos of such and there isn't. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, which is missing for Waymo. It is not on us to be faithful to false claims and to post evidence that something doesn't exist. It is on those perpetuating false claims to provide proof that it is not false.

> You know people at Waymo who say that Waymo is lying.
I didn't state that.

 

[diplomat33]

What does driverless taxi mean? When waymo says this they mean potential, they mean it can. I consider it a mistruth, and graduates to a lie when they claim it is available to the public. How many people think it is a lie versus a play on words? There is enough proof in the lack of video. If it were publicly available there would be regular videos of such and there isn't. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, which is missing for Waymo. It is not on us to be faithful to false claims and to post evidence that something doesn't exist. It is on those perpetuating false claims to provide proof of such.

> You know people at Waymo who say that Waymo is lying.
I didn't state that.

"But this driverless ride is different — and not just because it involved an unprotected left-hand turn, busy city streets or that the Waymo One app was used to hail the ride. It marks the beginning of a driverless ride-hailing service that is now being used by members of its early rider program and eventually the public." Nov 2019
Hailing a driverless ride in a Waymo – TechCrunch

We've given you plenty of evidence that Waymo has driverless taxis. And we've given you videos too from unaffiliated third parties. But it's never good enough for you. You conveniently come up with an excuse why the evidence is not good enough.

 

[diplomat33]

Really, Waymo can drive anywhere in the USA in the winter?

You didn't say anywhere in the US. You just said from point A to point B without specifying where A and B are.

 

[sperkin]

I think Tesla will need to do a little more than just make unprotected lefts to win against Waymo and cruise. Waymo and Cruise are ahead of Tesla in many other FSD areas.

Cruise released a video last year showing how good their cars are at unprotected left turns. They seem pretty good at it to me.

Thanks for sharing. When I'm in SF, I follow these cars around but not knowing if a human was making the turns or not. Cruise does a great job in SF city streets from I've seen. Waymo still can't do this. I have an ex-coworker in AZ that rides Waymo. He says that's their biggest weakness. Often the driver has to take over to make a left or an U turn.

 

[ZeApelido]

 

[diplomat33]

Thanks for sharing. When I'm in SF, I follow these cars around but not knowing if a human was making the turns or not. Cruise does a great job in SF city streets from I've seen. Waymo still can't do this. I have an ex-coworker in AZ that rides Waymo. He says that's their biggest weakness. Often the driver has to take over to make a left or an U turn.

Cruise spends a lot of time focusing on improving their FSD in SF. So I am not surprised that they are pretty good at driving in SF.

 

[diplomat33]

Isn't debating FSD fun?

 

[MXLRplus]

No takers? I had a feeling this would scare off those who think Waymo/Cruise have a better chance of real-world FSD.

1) Carnegie Mellon won that in 2007.

Really, Waymo can drive anywhere in the USA in the winter?

There is nothing made that can go anywhere in the US at any time.

In fact, many of our roads shut down in the winter even in the lower 48. I was blocked by lava in Hawaii once, and fires cut off the roads in and out of Santa Barbara recently. We have a road here that has been closed due to flood damage since the 1990's but some nav systems still think it goes through.

 

[DanCar]

"But this driverless ride is different — and not just because it involved an unprotected left-hand turn, busy city streets or that the Waymo One app was used to hail the ride. It marks the beginning of a driverless ride-hailing service that is now being used by members of its early rider program and eventually the public." Nov 2019
Hailing a driverless ride in a Waymo – TechCrunch

We've given you plenty of evidence that Waymo has driverless taxis. And we've given you videos too from unaffiliated third parties. But it's never good enough for you. You conveniently come up with an excuse why the evidence is not good enough.

You conveniently disregard the "public" part and the "readily" part. Is it your assertion that techcrunch given a driverless ride means it is publicly and readily available?

 

[MXLRplus]

You conveniently disregard the "public" part and the "readily" part. Tesla has done the demo thing already. Is it your assertion that techcrunch given a driverless ride means it is publicly and readily available? Seriously, get a clue.

Tesla tried to get the Nov 2016 video with 4? cars and stopped. Then after several days, they took out just one car, apparently one time, and made the movie in one take. Then abandoned testing in California. The data is on the California DMV website.

 

[diplomat33]

Is your assertation that techcrunch given a driverless ride means it is publicly and readily available?

No, I am not saying that. You obviously missed this line:

" It marks the beginning of a driverless ride-hailing service that is now being used by members of its early rider program and eventually the public."

I am saying that Waymo launched the Early Rider Program where the public could ride in a driverless robotaxi. The TechCrunch demo is completely separate.

 

[diplomat33]

Here is a neat little video from 2019 that shows what a Waymo FSD ride is like. A reporter from Cheddar got a ride. This ride has a safety driver but you can see that they don't touch the wheel:

And this is a very informative interview with Waymo CEO John krafick while riding in a Waymo robotaxi. he shares some nice tidbits about how Waymo's FSD works:

 

[DanCar]

No, I am not saying that. You obviously missed this line:

" It marks the beginning of a driverless ride-hailing service that is now being used by members of its early rider program and eventually the public."

I am saying that Waymo launched the Early Rider Program where the public could ride in a driverless robotaxi. The TechCrunch demo is completely separate.

Our repeated argument is that you assert that Waymo has L4 right now. I'm saying it doesn't. You quote this stuff as proof. I'm saying it is not proof because it is not readily available to the public. "Could ride" is a cop-out. We all could all get a ride to the moon. Doesn't mean anything. Tesla has made stronger false statements. Are you equally or more impressed with what Tesla has said?

Are you impressed with the "eventually" statement, then yeah eventually in 2025 or is that 2030? Either way it will be awesome when it arrives, but it is distant from today or as you put it "right now".

These early riders can’t request a fully driverless ride.

Does that sound like readily available to the public? Absolutely not. This means no public driverless rides (have to be chosen to be a member of waymo one), not readily available, no L4 right now, and a lot of B.S. on this forum.

 

[diplomat33]

Our repeated argument is that you assert that Waymo has L4 right now. I'm saying it doesn't. You quote this stuff as proof. I'm saying it is not proof because it is not readily available to the public. "Could ride" is a cop-out. We all could all get a ride to the moon. Doesn't mean anything. Tesla has made stronger false statements. Are you equally or more impressed with what Tesla has said?

Are you impressed with the "eventually" statement, then yeah eventually in 2025 or is that 2030?

So FSD has to be available to the entire general public to be considered L4? I did not see that in the SAE document. L4 is about certain driving capabilities and characteristics, not how many people get to ride in the car.

And yes, I am saying Waymo has L4, not because of what Waymo says, but because the cars meet the SAE definition of L4. Plain and simple. Just as Tesla only has L2 because our cars meet the definition of L2.