Fisker Atlantic (Nina)

[Discoducky]

Leaked Fisker Atlantic documents reveal production delay, specs

 

[rabar10]

Leaked Fisker Atlantic documents reveal production delay, specs

Here's the referenced blog article with more details:
Inside EVs EXCLUSIVE: Fisker Atlantic Delayed Until Mid 2014, Priced $50,000-$60,000 + More Specs

Engine: [...] set 300hp as the target performance for their car

0-60: 6.5 seconds (which is just a whisper slower than the Karma)

Emissions: 50 C02 (g/km)

Pricing: [...] Estimated Atlantic price range: $50,000-$60,000

Battery Size/Supplier/Range: [...] speculation, thanks to a 10-Q we dug up here at InsideEvs.com is that it will indeed be A123 again, the same supplier to the Karma. As for the range itself, even privately Fisker gave out the stock answer, “varies on use of the all-electric mode.” I am going to chalk this up to them not actually knowing, and the EPA’s rating of the Karma’s range (at 32 miles) catching them off guard after promoting much higher numbers.

Release Date: [...] The plant, which they purchased in July of 2010, is expected to under going re-tooling between 2012 and 2013, with the first prototype anticipated to being completed in mid 2013, with full production anticipated to start mid-2014, and thus making the Atlantic a model year 2015.

 

[AnOutsider]

Leaked Fisker Atlantic documents reveal production delay, specs

The Fisker Atlantic extended-range plug-in vehicle will start production about a year after its previously estimated mid-2013 date, Inside EVs blog reports, citing leaked company documents that were dated "a few weeks ago."

The Atlantic, formerly known as Project Nina, will compete pricewise against the BMW 3 and 5 Series sedans as well as the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class, Jaguar XF and Audi A4 and A6. That would put the model in the $50,000 to $60,000 range, according to the publication. The model, which will still be produced at Fisker's Delaware plant, will have 300 horsepower, a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds and emissions of 50 kilograms per kilometer, Inside EVs said, citing the documents.

So starting production mid 2014, I guess that'd put deliveries at about fall of 2014. 0-60 not bad (especially compared to the Karma). I wonder if that's the base model. Doesn't seem to be any mention of EV-only range.

*edit* from the source:

Battery Size/Supplier/Range: This seems to be one area Fisker hasn’t noted (at least not here). The speculation, thanks to a 10-Q we dug up here at InsideEvs.com is that it will indeed be A123 again, the same supplier to the Karma.

As for the range itself, even privately Fisker gave out the stock answer, “varies on use of the all-electric mode.” I am going to chalk this up to them not actually knowing, and the EPA’s rating of the Karma’s range (at 32 miles) catching them off guard after promoting much higher numbers.

Learning not to over-promise -- good, though I wonder about their return to A123.

So far so good right? Sure, the car is a little more money than initial estimates, but aren’t they always? The main thing is that the car’s performance matches its aggressive appearance.

I think that's very important, since, IMO, the Karma is a slow car that looks much faster than it is.

 

[vfx]

... 0-60 [6.5 sec] not bad (especially compared to the Karma)...

Really? To compete with " pricewise against the BMW 3 and 5 Series sedans as well as the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class, Jaguar XF and Audi A4 and A6."

And what about Tesla's Blue Gen? Do you think for even a moment that Elon and JB would put out something that would not at minimum beat a 4.9 sec 1-60 mark?

 

[AnOutsider]

Really? To compete with " pricewise against the BMW 3 and 5 Series sedans as well as the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class, Jaguar XF and Audi A4 and A6."

Relative to the karma, not bad at all. It's no secret though that I think the Karma is all show and no go, and while the Atlantic seems to be quicker, it's shaping up to be the same. Fisker seems to be OK with that, as does their buyers. Would it satisfy me (or buyers of those other brands if performance is what they were after)? heck no, but compared to the Karma... To be fair to fisker, perhaps there will be a sport/performance model (doubtful as speed doesn't seem to be their thing -- just looks).

And what about Tesla's Blue Gen? Do you think for even a moment that Elon and JB would put out something that would not at minimum beat a 4.9 sec 1-60 mark?

Nope, and it's one reason I like Tesla. They seem to have figured out how to push, what to me seems like, automobile crack. Cool gadgets? Check. Great performance? Check. Doesn't look like a golf cart? Check. I could do with more stylish designs (to me anyway), but I would never forego the latter 2 in exchange for it (which I'd be doing with a Karma or Atlantic it seems).

 

[Dan5]

2014- Ouch, at that time the EV and PHEV market will be saturated- to stand any chance the Atlantic has to have something unique in terms of performance compared to the other cars.

In terms of PHEVs Ford, GM, Toyota, Mistubishi, Jag, BMW, Suzuki, Audi, Dodge, will all have or expected to have PHEVs on the market by then (all slated to be released or currently undergoing field testing)

To cap that off, BEVs will be in full swing (Tesla, Mistu, Ford, BMW, Kia, Coda, BYD, etc)

That's alot of competition! Currently it is not a lowest priced, first to market in terms of tech, besides looks its going to be a rough sell, decent performance (but not the best), but not great, plus what percentage of Fisker owners will encourage or discourage other people to buy a Fisker?

 

[vfx]

... I could do with more stylish designs (to me anyway), but I would never forego the latter 2 in exchange for it (which I'd be doing with a Karma or Atlantic it seems).

Tesla is a slave to aerodynamics for now. When power efficiencies are great enough then less slippery designs will start anew. Though the more styling choices a manufacturer makes the more risk they have in turning people off and presumably there will be other awesome electrics to compete with by then.

Speaking of which, the Atlantic in 2014, The Blue Gen in 2016? Both are aiming at the exact same market.

 

[AnOutsider]

Fair point, though I think some of it has to do with Franz's own style. I'd hope Bluestar is late 2014/early-mid 2015 (12-18 months after the X starts rolling off lines), though I accept mid to late 2015 as more likey. Even if, I'm not sure I see much of a market for the Atlantic outside of those looking for looks, and possibly exclusivity (though at that price point, maybe not even that).

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Speaking of which, the Atlantic in 2014, The Blue Gen in 2016? Both are aiming at the exact same market.

Blue gen uses GAS??

They might both be smaller cars but Fisker is not going all electric and ditching the ice tunnel thingy

 

[vfx]

Fair point, though I think some of it has to do with Franz's own style....).

Agreed. While I lean more towards the unbridled shapes Fisker imagines, I do love Frantz' improvements on the Roadster. He took a rather pablum adult design (especially compared to the insectiod Elise) and added just a bit of personality to make it special. I would love to see what he will do when unencumbered by ajr flow. Will they go fake-grill-less?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Tesla Gen III is priced in the $30,000s; Atlantic in the $50,000s. They are not competing in the same space. An extra $20k is a big step up. If anything, Atlantic is competing against the Model S.

 

[vfx]

Tesla Gen III is priced in the $30,000s; Atlantic in the $50,000s. They are not competing in the same space. An extra $20k is a big step up. ...

That's if you believe a comparably outfitted car with decent range is the same price.

TWT...

 

[DrTaras]

It's no secret though that I think the Karma is all show and no go, and while the Atlantic seems to be quicker, it's shaping up to be the same. Fisker seems to be OK with that, as does their buyers.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

 

[doug]

Fisker needs to buy themselves a better drivetrain.

 

[Jay Cole]

Speaking of which, the Atlantic in 2014, The Blue Gen in 2016? Both are aiming at the exact same market.

Hey, first post.

Not sure how I managed to never join the community here up until today, because you have a really nice/informed group...but, better late than never right?

Anywhoo, I wrote the Fisker Atlantics article that is being discussed, and just wanted to comment on the competition between Atlantic vs Model S or Bluestar. My impression is that Fisker isn't really focusing on Tesla, and shys away from comparisons when it can.

The volume/capacity they are attempting to build out with the Atlantic (many multiples of the Model S) underlines that they are really trying to cut into the mainstream BMW/Mercedes premium sedan business. I think that shows up in the fact, they choose retailers that already have Jaguar, BMW, Cadillac, etc., and that they have penetration in 25 markets in Europe already through 4 partners that also offer other 'upscale cars'.

I think they both have their own niche. Tesla being uber-range/performance BEVS, and Fisker in the premium luxury/green hybrid segment. I'm not sure there is a ton of overlap, or at least not so much that they threaten each other...they have a lot more to worry about besides.

As for fancy, future tense models. Tesla has the Bluestar, but I can tell you Fisker has designs on a third model of their own. With that said, I believe the fate of both these imagined cars lie largely in how these company's second offerings go, and how they manage being 'real', volume auto manufacturers.

 

[AnOutsider]

Welcome aboard Jay!

 

[Iz]

I think they both have their own niche. Tesla being uber-range/performance BEVS, and Fisker in the premium luxury/green hybrid segment. I'm not sure there is a ton of overlap, or at least not so much that they threaten each other...they have a lot more to worry about besides.

Welcome Jay. That overlap will become more apparent as battery range increases. Eventually, the luxury/green hybrid segment will begin to seriously look at BEVs.

 

[vfx]

...
As for fancy, future tense models. Tesla has the Bluestar, but I can tell you Fisker has designs on a third model of their own. With that said, I believe the fate of both these imagined cars lie largely in how these company's second offerings go, and how they manage being 'real', volume auto manufacturers.

Fisker has a 5th car in the works?

Karma
Sunset
Station wagon thing (Surf)
Atlantic (Nina)
Jay's "third car"?

Welcome Jay! Are you saying that the "3rd" car would be even more mass market than the Atlantic?



PS
Fisker does a great job at naming cars! Tesla, not so much.

 

[ElSupreme]

PS
Fisker does a great job at naming cars! Tesla, not so much.

Not if the next model is the Model E. ...



I am a child.

 

[DuncanWatson]

If you consider the Fisker Nina comparable to the Model S, then the model S does pay for itself in gas savings.