For AWD owners wanting a P3D-

[TyH2009]

Yes it is. (I didnt say P3D-) The P3D is 7k more. The off-menu P3D- is only 2k more currently, but I would expect that option to disappear soon because it is sabotaging the sales of the P3D and LR AWD. It makes no sense to pay 5k more for wheels that are arguably uglier and slightly bigger brakes. It also makes no sense to buy a LR AWD if you can get a P3D- for only 2k more.

I take it as an easy up-sell, "would you like to Performance-ize that for $2,000?" Some will say yes, some will say no thank you.

It takes them, what, 5 minutes to upload the software for the faster acceleration? Totally worth it for both Tesla and the people that want it.

 

[MountainJedi]

Yes it is. (I didnt say P3D-) The P3D is 7k more. The off-menu P3D- is only 2k more currently, but I would expect that option to disappear soon because it is sabotaging the sales of the P3D and LR AWD. It makes no sense to pay 5k more for wheels that are arguably uglier and slightly bigger brakes. It also makes no sense to buy a LR AWD if you can get a P3D- for only 2k more.

But why wouldn't they want to sell more P3D- than AWD? The $2,000 is pure profit for them since software is the only difference. The additional $5K is probably something like $3-4K additional profit so I see where they don't want to cannibalize those sales, but I would think they would want to push as many P3D- over AWD as possible.

 

[Knightshade]

Yes it is. (I didnt say P3D-) The P3D is 7k more.

But the P3D+ has additional hardware. So it makes no sense to bring it up in a thread specifically about unlocking AWD cars without that hardware.

The P3D- is the only 1:1 comparison since they're physically the same car.

It makes no sense to pay 5k more for wheels that are arguably uglier and slightly bigger brakes.

And yet, that's literally what the Performance Upgrade Package is- and lots of people bought it.

 

[MagnusMako]

It's good to keep in mind Elon's word is not gospel or infallible and should always be scrutinized. This has been shown time and time again with many of the things he's said hastily or said would happen but didn't. Remember those prototype turbine wheels from the red model 3 at the unveiling? Yeah those were suppose to be available at the end of last year per his tweet, but that didn't happen either, nor do we know if it ever will. Same with air suspension.

 

[cypho]

But why wouldn't they want to sell more P3D- than AWD? The $2,000 is pure profit for them since software is the only difference. The additional $5K is probably something like $3-4K additional profit so I see where they don't want to cannibalize those sales, but I would think they would want to push as many P3D- over AWD as possible.

It is not totally free on Tesla's end. I would expect the P to have a higher rate of drivetrain warranty claims.

And that may explain the price reduction for the P, they may now be more confident now about how much the p actually costs them in warranty work so they can lower the price without excessive risk that they will loose a ton on battery/motor replacements.

 

[JamesBrown]

But the P3D+ has additional hardware. So it makes no sense to bring it up in a thread specifically about unlocking AWD cars without that hardware.

The P3D- is the only 1:1 comparison since they're physically the same car.

And yet, that's literally what the Performance Upgrade Package is- and lots of people bought it.

The current P3D with 18s has identical hardware/software to P3D with 19s. Only difference is breaks, suspension, wheels.

People bought the Performance Upgrade Package to get the extra performance/trackmode, not the wheels/brakes. (maybe some did but it wouldnt be the driving force)

If they leave the current option of a P3D with 18s for 49k, it would canalize the sales of both the LR AWD and P3D with 19s.

 

[Rothgarr]

A few grand upgrade to a 3 LR AWD would make less people buy the the P3D. The current P3D is $7k more. A $2k upgrade does not really sound like a very wise money grab, when you stand to lose $7k per car.

How many owners do you think are going to buy a Performance model when they just bought an AWD? (and one that depreciated greatly since the price drop). That's silly, no one in their right mind would do that so Tesla isn't going to lose out on anything. Plus those people already used their Federal tax credit. Tesla could only gain from this.

I keep my cars for a long time (I had my previous car for almost 14 years). Would I spend around $2 grand to upgrade to Performance acceleration right now? Hell yeah. But it's not going to affect my purchase decision in ten years.

 

[MountainJedi]

It is not totally free on Tesla's end. I would expect the P to have a higher rate of drivetrain warranty claims.

And that may explain the price reduction for the P, they may now be more confident now about how much the p actually costs them in warranty work so they can lower the price without excessive risk that they will loose a ton on battery/motor replacements.

Why would there be higher warranty claims on a P? There is nothing to suggest the the acceleration/power curve on a P is more taxing on the hardware than the AWD. And since they have the same hardware, it makes no difference. If there was a concern about the warranty claims they would have developed different parts with different tolerances and they wouldn't be software flashing AWD to P capabilities.

Even if it was a warranty concern, what's the allocation their going to make on the books for that? It's going to be pretty small, so it's still a significant margin item for them.

 

[Knightshade]

The current P3D with 18s has identical hardware/software to P3D with 19s. Only difference is breaks, suspension, wheels.

... what?

They don't even offer a P with 19s.

People bought the Performance Upgrade Package to get the extra performance/trackmode, not the wheels/brakes.

That's demonstrably false for 2 reasons:

1) The PUP wasn't required to get the performance for as long as they were (and now are again) selling both versions of the P. The P3D- was available for $5000 less with the same performance just no wheels/brakes.

2) Track mode is available on either version so you don't need PUP for that either.

If they leave the current option of a P3D with 18s for 49k, it would canalize the sales of both the LR AWD and P3D with 19s.

Again- there is no P3D with 19s.

And "canalize(sic)" sales of LR AWD makes no sense at all

Tesla would love if every single buyer gave them an extra $2000 for nothing but a software unlock to get a P3D- instead of an AWD. That's almost 100% pure extra profit on every single one that happens to.


Folks who want the wheels and brakes (as again lots of folks did last time both were offered) would continue paying the extra 5k for those parts.

 

[superbaka]

Teslas own parts catalog contradicts that claim though

I learned this before the parts catalog.

They may have updated the new AWD to contain both inverters and can be software updated. I may have the old config from 2018.

 

[anon52695]

I really hope they come out with a paid unlock, I just wish they would say something about it instead of me speculating, and something official. I just got a trade in value for my AWD with 12k miles for 37.5 I’ve had it about 9 months now. To upgrade to this and match it with FSD I am paying about 18k to do this. I think I will hold onto it for that, with that said I’ll even pay 5 or 6k for a unlock, way cheaper then selling/trading in my car for this.

 

[smithre4]

Fair enough. I have an email out to my sales advisor so I’ll find out in the morning.

Edit: actually as I think about it, I don’t remember it that way. I remember only the 20” showing once you selected performance.

Did your adviser get back to you? I remember seeing the 18" wheel option when using a mobile browser; maybe it was an artifact of the mobile experience vs. desktop browsing experience.

 

[Knightshade]

I learned this before the parts catalog.

They may have updated the new AWD to contain both inverters and can be software updated. I may have the old config from 2018.

Uh, all the original AWD cars had the same inverters too- that's what the parts catalog proved. Same part the AWD and the P in the front.

 

[SammichLover]

Less but still a unicorn!

....to a non-meaningful extent.

It also makes no sense to buy a LR AWD if you can get a P3D- for only 2k more.

1) If it is only acceleration, maybe.
2) It also costs Tesla less than that to "make". More cash for near nothing effort? "Sabotaging the lower price, lower margin product." This is a bad thing how?
3) If this new P- doesn't include Track Mode then it isn't at all a no-brainer to buy it over the P. If it includes Track Mode, then that's a different thing. However, how that plays out with absolute margin for Tesla is probably somewhere close to neutral.

 

[MountainJedi]

Did your adviser get back to you? I remember seeing the 18" wheel option when using a mobile browser; maybe it was an artifact of the mobile experience vs. desktop browsing experience.

Yeah, sorry posted on another thread. 18" option still available. Performance, Black, 18" aeros for $50,740. In inventory and ready to go. Confirmed it does not include any of the performance upgrade package. She sold 2 yesterday, including the one she originally quoted me.

Based on that, I'm guessing they're working to rebuild the website to allow for ordering online rather than taking the option away.

 

[SammichLover]

I wanted track mode...

LOL, of course you did. But now you've got it so it isn't something to complain about.....not like rolling off a list of [inflated] costs associated with taking the vehicle to the track. But going off-road is free!!!! ROFL

 

[SammichLover]

Why would there be higher warranty claims on a P? There is nothing to suggest the the acceleration/power curve on a P is more taxing on the hardware than the AWD.

The strain of an extra 30% torque could certainly matter. The extra heat this generates, and the higher draw rate from the battery, could certainly matter.

Of course now Tesla as near a year of actual numbers from the field to look at to better guesstimate what, if any, lifetime warranty cost increase tire is. So that represents less of a risk of the unknown. We don't know what their data is, and nigh guaranteed they'll ever release that data publicly. Even if they were sued that's the sort of trade secret that would get sealed if it ever came up in a court case.

 

[MountainJedi]

The strain of an extra 30% torque could certainly matter. The extra heat this generates, and the higher draw rate from the battery, could certainly matter.

Of course now Tesla as near a year of actual numbers from the field to look at to try guesstimate what, if any, lifetime warranty cost increase tire is.

But since the hardware is the same, that assumes that the drive units were engineered to not be able to handle the power of the P. I mean I guess they could have completely botched the engineering on it, but I suspect they would have constrained even the P power and acceleration well below the actual capacity of the hardware, specifically to try to prevent warranty claims and unit failures.

My guess is that there are no additional warranty expenses to book for an upgrade of a AWD to P and if there are, it's a minuscule fraction of a potential $2K upgrade cost.

 

[jebinc]

But since the hardware is the same, that assumes that the drive units were engineered to not be able to handle the power of the P. I mean I guess they could have completely botched the engineering on it, but I suspect they would have constrained even the P power and acceleration well below the actual capacity of the hardware, specifically to try to prevent warranty claims and unit failures.

My guess is that there are no additional warranty expenses to book for an upgrade of a AWD to P and if there are, it's a minuscule fraction of a potential $2K upgrade cost.

One can only hope....

 

[SammichLover]

But since the hardware is the same, that assumes that the drive units were engineered to not be able to handle the power of the P.

No, that's not how it works. Engineering design expects failures will happen, warranty claims will happen. To design with an expectation of zero failures is not only not particularly realistic, it also ignores costs so unless you and your customers have an unlimited budget that is just bad engineering.

Further, the Performance variant was effectively an afterthought. It wasn't laid out until the D was basically done.