Ford will add NACS to next gen EVs!

Next gen Ford EVs will include NACS port. Also will have a NACS to CCS adapter for existing Ford EVs and will be made compatible with Tesla Superchargers via software update.

Honestly never thought any other automaker would take up NACS so this is very surprising.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Moderator note: The first couple pages of this thread are a merge of two different threads on the same topic.

 

[MP3Mike]

Are you talking about CHAdeMO specifically, or the addition of another connector besides CCS ?

CHAdeMO specifically.

I looked at the NEVI rules. They appear to say that every funded port must have CCS, but do not exclude other non-proprietary connectors.

Are you sure you are looking at the current ones?

(c)Connector type. All charging connectors must meet applicable industry standards. Each DCFC charging port must be capable of charging any CCS-compliant vehicle and each DCFC charging port must have at least one permanently attached CCS Type 1 connector. In addition, permanently attached CHAdeMO (www.chademo.com) connectors can be provided using only FY2022 NEVI Funds

So I was wrong, CHAdeMO can only be installed using the first year of NEVI funds. (I had thought it was the first two years.)

 

[beatle]

Can’t tell if this is satire. I’m not looking forward to them opening up the network since that means longer wait times and more chances of ford owners parking in those spaces and not even charging just so they can “ICE” out Tesla owners. And yes I know what ICEing stands for, but I’m sure there will be a new term made up for Ford owners that do this

You think someone driving a Ford EV will just sit in a supercharger stall and not charge, just to spite anyone else (including other Ford EV drivers) trying to charge their vehicles? Really?

If you're referring to Ford gas vehicles ICEing a supercharger, that's no different than it is now.

 

[meomyo]

i hope tesla plans on building 2x as many sc now.
?

 

[MP3Mike]

i hope tesla plans on building 2x as many sc now.
?

Yes, back in February Tesla said that they are going to double the installed Superchargers. (By the end of 2024 is my understanding.)

Ford coming on board may increase that even more.

 

[TheHippo]

I’m well aware. I never said the Supercharger network is open to any EV currently or in the near future.

Your whole point this far has been Ford paid for it. They paid for it. They paid for it. They paid for it. No one else can access the superchargers unless the manufacturer has paid for it. You’ve said it many times in many threads.

I’m saying that’s not necessarily true.

1. Tesla already has mechanisms in place and in use right now for non-Tesla vehicles to access Superchargers without the other auto manufacturer paying for anything. Eg the Magic Dock locations in the US and the opened chargers in Europe.​

​

2. If Ford is paying for anything, they are paying for Tesla to help work together on integration of Plug and Charge and automatic payment with Ford Pass on the back end. Not necessarily for the Supercharger access itself.​

​

3. Tesla is most likely charging Ford or Ford customers a premium as they already do for the opened Superchargers elsewhere. If they are already profitable like they claim to be by offering charging at the Tesla only rates, any additional fees they collect from CCS cars would just be sugar on top. That’s how Tesla would make money from this agreement.​

V3 superchargers already have CCS communication capability so in theory if a physical adapter existed, any CCS car with an adapter could plug in and communicate with a Supercharger stall. The missing part of the equation is activating the charge session and paying for it.

If Tesla should so choose to do so in the future, they can easily allow all CCS cars to charge at a supercharger at the flip of a switch. Tesla can have people use their self provided CCS1 adapter and activate/pay via app (eg what they already do at Magic Dock locations and in Europe), or they could come out with a “smart” plug and charge adapter that is linked to a Tesla account for automatic billing and bypass the other automaker, or partner with other automakers to provide direct plug and charge integration with Tesla on the back end (eg what Ford is doing). For the last option, Tesla probably would want them to implement NACS before working with another automaker on plug and charge at Superchargers.

From the horse's (Elon's) mouth:

“We’ve always said that this is not intended to be a walled garden, and we’re happy to support other automakers and let them use our Supercharger stations. They would just need to pay, you know, share the costs proportionate to their vehicle usage, and they would need to be able to accept our charge rate or at least our connector, at least have an adapter to our connector. This is something that we are very open to, but so far, none of the other car makers have wanted to do this. It’s not because of opposition from us. This is not a walled garden.”

 

[TheHippo]

Ford isn't paying Tesla
NACS is a standard Tesla wants mass adoption.

Remember - Tesla is required to have CCS charging at their Supercharger stations. This is a federal requirement Tesla agreed to.
But those magic docks will be limited. They won't be on every station.

Ford using NACS is strategic.

And yes, CCS is dogshit. 800W? You might as well say 2.5gigawatts. If that crappy, unsecure MS Windows jukebox actually connects with your phone and you can get it to actually pay or charge, than great.
There is no standardization.
EA, Chargeplus, bunghole chargeworld...whatever - having 10 apps with 10 different CCS charger systems and maybe get something that works...

NACS allows Ford a huge upgrade in charging access and especially for domestic, new ev customers - the absolute ease of Tesla's Supercharging network is one of those things you never want to lose once you have it.

From the horse's (Elon's) mouth:

“We’ve always said that this is not intended to be a walled garden, and we’re happy to support other automakers and let them use our Supercharger stations. They would just need to pay, you know, share the costs proportionate to their vehicle usage, and they would need to be able to accept our charge rate or at least our connector, at least have an adapter to our connector. This is something that we are very open to, but so far, none of the other car makers have wanted to do this. It’s not because of opposition from us. This is not a walled garden.”

 

[E90alex]

From the horse's (Elon's) mouth:

“We’ve always said that this is not intended to be a walled garden, and we’re happy to support other automakers and let them use our Supercharger stations. They would just need to pay, you know, share the costs proportionate to their vehicle usage, and they would need to be able to accept our charge rate or at least our connector, at least have an adapter to our connector. This is something that we are very open to, but so far, none of the other car makers have wanted to do this. It’s not because of opposition from us. This is not a walled garden.”

That quote is from 2018. Before Tesla made NACS specs available for all with no strings attached. Before Tesla opened up chargers in Europe to any EV without other automakers having to pay for anything. Before Tesla created the magic dock stations to charge any CCS EV without other automakers having to pay for anything.

 

[TheHippo]

That quote is from 2018. Before Tesla made NACS specs available for all with no strings attached. Before Tesla opened up chargers in Europe to any EV without other automakers having to pay for anything. Before Tesla created the magic dock stations to charge any CCS EV without other automakers having to pay for anything.

1. Tesla made NACS free. Tesla didn't make the Supercharger free.

2. In Europe, Tesla allows non-Tesla to use some Superchargers despite the fact that all the Superchargers have compatible connectors.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That quote is from 2018. Before Tesla made NACS specs available for all with no strings attached. Before Tesla opened up chargers in Europe to any EV without other automakers having to pay for anything. Before Tesla created the magic dock stations to charge any CCS EV without other automakers having to pay for anything.

That's of course not how this Ford deal was structured, they came to a separate agreement akin to what Elon originally mention (which is why the Ford specific adapters and special software on the car side). Nothing about the NACS specs means superchargers are given access to.

For example if an automaker decided to add NACS on their cars, that does not mean their cars can charge at all the superchargers. All that allows them to do is plug in. They still need an agreement with Tesla to use them.

Europe is a great example. All Tesla stations had CCS2, but not all stations allowed non-Tesla EVs to charge.

Ford is making a big deal because it's not the same as the Magic Dock.

 

[popgodazipa]

Am I the only one that thinks this sucks for Tesla owners?

In the end better for all we hope. With Ford and Tesla all in on this component of the equation you'll likely see more Tesla charging stations nationwide. I'm sure Ford is going to invest capital into expanding the network as well. This will be the dominos that tilts the industry to a universal charge port. Checkmate Elon.

 

[meomyo]

on one hand a universal charging adapter makes sense IF there are way more then enough charging starions per city per car to support this..like gas stations now. Otherwise it will clog things up at super chargers. I wonder here in colorado where i see a ton of teslas and ev..how many tesla buyers just use superchargers only. There are some sc stations local that i poll people and they say they are renters and bought a tesla so they go to charge at this local station daily..which to me is odd as if i didnt have a home with garage to put a charger in i wouldnt get an ev.

 

[popgodazipa]

on one hand a universal charging adapter makes sense IF there are way more then enough charging starions per city per car to support this..like gas stations now. Otherwise it will clog things up at super chargers. I wonder here in colorado where i see a ton of teslas and ev..how many tesla buyers just use superchargers only. There are some sc stations local that i poll people and they say they are renters and bought a tesla so they go to charge at this local station daily..which to me is odd as if i didnt have a home with garage to put a charger in i wouldnt get an ev.

Don't get the logic. Did you have a petrol station at home when you drove an ICE?

 

[ThePirate]

How come no one is asking the obvious question: Will this make OUR superchargers, which we paid for, more crowded? Did Elon promise (for what its worth) that he would put in more if this has any effect on wait times?

This is important. our Teslas don't suck because we can road trip them. Make it so there are big lines at fast chargers on holidays, and that all goes *poof*.

-TPC, with no way to charge at home.

 

[Tronguy]

How come no one is asking the obvious question: Will this make OUR superchargers, which we paid for, more crowded? Did Elon promise (for what its worth) that he would put in more if this has any effect on wait times?

This is important. our Teslas don't suck because we can road trip them. Make it so there are big lines at fast chargers on holidays, and that all goes *poof*.

-TPC, with no way to charge at home.

Point 1: Right now, if I'm not mistaken, Teslas in the U.S. outnumber all the other BEVs and such on the road by roughly 5 or 10 to one. Which means that even if that fancy NACS to CCS1 adapter was available tomorrow, you're talking somewhere between a 10% or 20% increase in traffic at a Tesla Supercharger. Don't know about you, but most Superchargers I've seen aren't all that full, Yeah, some are, but most aren't.

Point 2: Tesla is doubling the number of Superchargers this year in the U.S.. Presumably, with Ford supporting the Supercharger network, that rate will increase. So, I'd argue by the time Fords start showing up in numbers sometime 1st Q of 2024, there's going to be a heck of a lot more stalls out there.

Conclusion: Don't worry, be happy.

 

[CDrury]

How come no one is asking the obvious question: Will this make OUR superchargers, which we paid for, more crowded? Did Elon promise (for what its worth) that he would put in more if this has any effect on wait times?

This is important. our Teslas don't suck because we can road trip them. Make it so there are big lines at fast chargers on holidays, and that all goes *poof*.

-TPC, with no way to charge at home.

Scroll back and look at my post. Same concern.

 

[threeputts]

How come no one is asking the obvious question: Will this make OUR superchargers, which we paid for, more crowded?

The earliest this could impact us is when NACS to CCS DC capable adapters are made available to Mach E and Lightning owners, and there just aren’t many of them. It will be a while until Ford EVs roll off the line w/ NACS ports.

As long as Ford’s contribution accelerates Supercharger expansion as it should this will be a non-issue IMHO.

 

[chinney]

Don't get the logic. Did you have a petrol station at home when you drove an ICE?

I did! And a refinery as well.

 

[israndy]

The earliest this could impact us is when NACS to CCS DC capable adapters are made available

There could be other impacts before. I am waiting for dominos to fall beforehand

 

[BitJam]

For those who are worried that adding 5% or 10% more vehicles to the supercharger network will overwhelm busy locations, please remember that Tesla is, at first, only opening up 70% of their network to Ford, 12K chargers out of a total of 17K.

Tesla has a track record of NOT opening up busy superchargers to non-Teslas. I don't expect them to change now. In addition, if Fords will be able to use superchargers worldwide then they will only get access to 25%, 12K out of 45K.

 

[KJD]

To everyone is worried over Mustangs flooding your favorite supercharger location, stop and look at the numbers people.
The Mustang Mach E does not even make the top 5 and the Lightning barely makes the top 10 in sales.

Think about that for a minute. Tesla Austin by itself is building 5,000 Model Y's a week. Ford made 5,407 Mustang EV's in the entire Q1.

The full chart can be found here.
US Electric Vehicle Sales Up 66%, Rise To 7% Of US Auto Sales - CleanTechnica