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Ford will add NACS to next gen EVs!

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Next gen Ford EVs will include NACS port. Also will have a NACS to CCS adapter for existing Ford EVs and will be made compatible with Tesla Superchargers via software update.

Honestly never thought any other automaker would take up NACS so this is very surprising.


Moderator note: The first couple pages of this thread are a merge of two different threads on the same topic.
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I had a Bolt and really liked it, I only sold it because I got a GM buyback offer that allowed me to turn a profit after the tax credit was figured in.
It makes sense that GM would discontinue the current Bolt with it's older battery format as they move toward getting everything to run on a common
platform, it's just unfortunate that they haven't yet announced something smaller (and presumably cheaper) than the Equinox EV. I suspect it will be several years until they make something like that available.
The Bolt was discontinued so that GM could focus on its "Ultium Platform." The Chevy Equinox is supposed to start at $30k for the 250 mile EPA range version; whether GM can hit that price remains to be seen (and perhaps the price includes nonsense like counting the tax credit, as Tesla did with website pricing for so many years). The cars are due to start delivery toward the end of this year, with a larger battery version, of course. The other variants will be introduced next year.

With this Ford/Tesla announcement, I expect that there have been a lot of late nights for the GM EV division over the last few days. What will GM do?
 
The Bolt was discontinued so that GM could focus on its "Ultium Platform." The Chevy Equinox is supposed to start at $30k for the 250 mile EPA range version; whether GM can hit that price remains to be seen (and perhaps the price includes nonsense like counting the tax credit, as Tesla did with website pricing for so many years). The cars are due to start delivery toward the end of this year, with a larger battery version, of course. The other variants will be introduced next year.

With this Ford/Tesla announcement, I expect that there have been a lot of late nights for the GM EV division over the last few days. What will GM do?
GM was the biggest pusher of CCS1 and have been antagonistic to other formats (including CHAdeMO) and also have supported dealers in some anti-Tesla legislations, so is in quite the awkward situation. They might be one of the last holdouts given that.

However, with Ford taking a first big step, other manufacturers might follow and pressure will be higher. Certainly wouldn't have predicted this.
 
Next gen Ford EVs will include NACS port. Also will have a NACS to CCS adapter for existing Ford EVs and will be made compatible with Tesla Superchargers via software update.

Honestly never thought any other automaker would take up NACS so this is very surprising.


Moderator note: The first couple pages of this thread are a merge of two different threads on the same topic.View attachment 941434
How do I post a video.. apparently the word got out incorrectly to a Ford owner. This guy tried for about 10min trying to get the cord to A reach and B fit. Neither options worked. He even tried driving over the hump to get closer. Got a good long laugh with the family in the car and my young kids confused as to how he didn’t realize the plugs were completely different. I walked over and explained to him it’s just not going to work with his new car at a Tesla supercharger.. at least for now.

I must say when I first pulled up I was kinda/really annoyed because there was already a wait for chargers and my first thought was WTF I invested in a car and company that invested in a build out of chargers first and successfully. Why do they (other car companies) get to use them now. I really hope whatever “Deal Ford get” is a deal for Tesla owners. I don’t use superchargers much, but when I do it’s high demand areas and many times there’s some wait. Less then 3min fill my wife’s 33gal ICE expedition, or now add more wait time for Fords to change up.. just think out loud.

P.s. really enjoying the community here!
 

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The Bolt was discontinued so that GM could focus on its "Ultium Platform." The Chevy Equinox is supposed to start at $30k for the 250 mile EPA range version; whether GM can hit that price remains to be seen (and perhaps the price includes nonsense like counting the tax credit, as Tesla did with website pricing for so many years). The cars are due to start delivery toward the end of this year, with a larger battery version, of course. The other variants will be introduced next year.

With this Ford/Tesla announcement, I expect that there have been a lot of late nights for the GM EV division over the last few days. What will GM do?

The $30k is 1LT, the basic version with limited options. Looks like you need to step up to the 2LT to get heated seats and steering wheel and some other options. That'll be from $34k.
1LT and 2LT will supposedly be available next spring.

GM will probably stick and bet that the CCS network issues get resolved. I know CCS coverage is improving here and in other states and there's a bunch of money and new chargers in the pipeline. Dieselgate was $2B, NEVI is $5B.

Worst that happens is they eventually do a deal with Tesla and get an adapter.
GM wants to re-enter the European markets with EVs so they need CCS2 anyway.
 
More press:
From that article, a mention that V2H and V2G would call for a CCS plug seems presumptive.
The Lightening’s current V2L is through AC outlets not the plug, if V2H/G has yet to be standardized then there is an opportunity to design an ergonomic connector separate from the charger, you wouldn’t be able to go 2H or 2G through any available EVSE anyway.
 
The Lightening’s current V2L is through AC outlets not the plug,
I don't think that's true. Ford's advertising for the home backup option is that it needs to use the bidirectional "Ford Charge Station Pro", which I think does go with either charge or discharge through the charging port.

 
From that article, a mention that V2H and V2G would call for a CCS plug seems presumptive.
The Lightening’s current V2L is through AC outlets not the plug, if V2H/G has yet to be standardized then there is an opportunity to design an ergonomic connector separate from the charger, you wouldn’t be able to go 2H or 2G through any available EVSE anyway.
Lightning has a V2H solution that uses the CCS plug (it involves installing a home inverter and connecting via the CCS cable). However given in DC mode the AC power pins aren't used anyways, the physical connector doesn't have to be CCS. NACS can easily support that too. As such the physical connector itself has nothing to do with it.

Here's the simplest diagram I found on Google:
Ford_charger_integration_system_energy_flow_diagram.png
 
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I don't think that's true. Ford's advertising for the home backup option is that it needs to use the bidirectional "Ford Charge Station Pro", which I think does go with either charge or discharge through the charging port.

He's talking about V2L, not V2H. For V2L Ford provides separate outlets. They aren't like Hyundai where there is a J1772 adapter with an outlet on it.

What you mention is for V2H. Note, the charging station alone is not sufficient to support V2H (that station only provides 80A AC charging). You also need to install a home Integration kit, which includes an inverter. When the car is exporting power, it is done via DC, as per diagram attached in previous post, and converted to AC with the home inverter.

It's not using the OBC to deliver AC power from the car's charge port like Hyundai does with their J1772 adapter.
 
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Oh, I wasn't familiar with V2L as a separate thing. I was only familiar with vehicle to grid or vehicle to home, which people use to refer to basically the same thing.
I don't blame you. I believe originally the only term was V2G, which was used generally for everything related to exporting power from the EV, but the term V2L and V2H was added later (and I believe V2X is used also) given V2G didn't quite fit when the loads were not grid attached.
 
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That's very unlikely to be causally related to Ford's ditching CCS in favor of NACS -- and if it is, the causal arrow is likely pointing in the other direction (that is, Ford suspects CCS chargers are causing damage to its cars and so wants to get its vehicles using NACS chargers instead). The reason I say this is in the second sentence of the post:

Militant1 on off-site post said:
2021 mach e GTPE. So just short of a month ago I plugged into a 150kw Electrify America charger and a minute or so later flames shoot out of the charge port.
Emphasis added. This incident occurred before Ford and Tesla announced their partnership.
 
The Bolt was discontinued so that GM could focus on its "Ultium Platform." The Chevy Equinox is supposed to start at $30k for the 250 mile EPA range version; whether GM can hit that price remains to be seen (and perhaps the price includes nonsense like counting the tax credit, as Tesla did with website pricing for so many years). The cars are due to start delivery toward the end of this year, with a larger battery version, of course. The other variants will be introduced next year.

With this Ford/Tesla announcement, I expect that there have been a lot of late nights for the GM EV division over the last few days. What will GM do?

here's your answer: GM to use Tesla charging network, joining Ford in leveraging the EV leader's tech
 
Wow. This effectively means that NACS will become the standard in North America. There will enormous pressure for other manufactures selling in the North American market to cave in and us NACS as well. CCS will hang around for a while, but its expansion will be limited and I assume that it will eventually die out, with legacy EVs fitted with CCS charging hardware having to use an adapter to connect with NACS. I assume as well that this will lead to a substantial further build-out of the Tesla charging network, and perhaps that of other charging networks who might be, in the future, licensed to natively use NACS.
 
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Wow. This effectively means that NACS will become the standard in North America. There will enormous pressure for other manufactures selling in the North American market to cave in and us NACS as well. CCS will hang around for a while, but its expansion will be limited and I assume that it will eventually die out, with legacy EVs fitted with CCS charging hardware having to use an adapter to connect with NACS. I assume as well that this will lead to a substantial further build-out of the Tesla charging network, and perhaps that of other charging networks who might be, in the future, licensed to natively use NACS.
It better lead to tones of 3rd party NACS stations. It would be a nightmare if there was a fast charging monopoly that emerged from this where Tesla was the only viable supplier and was also a gatekeeper for every EV (car and brand) being able to charge. Their record on this is rather poor already (salvage Teslas), and the idea that every automaker would need to 'make a deal' with Tesla to be able to have their cars have any hope of DC fast charging anywhere is repulsive. The Tesla network is currently the best by far, but a future where they are the only provider would not be good for anybody (except Tesla).

I am glad the NACS socket is perhaps going to win, because it is a far better mechanical solution than CCS1, but I hope this turns out well for the whole EV industry and consumers long-term. It is very good that NACS specifies communications protocols that are not under Tesla's sole control, so 3rd parties are totally free to make compatible charging stations, I just hope they do (and they can be made reliable). As far as I can tell it should be very easy to convert a charging station from CCS1 to NACS with a connector swap (and perhaps some small stuff like the locking signaling). It should address some of the reliability issues that come from CCS connector mechanical issues, but there will still be CCS signaling crap to work out.
 
I assume as well that this will lead to a substantial further build-out of the Tesla charging network, and perhaps that of other charging networks who might be, in the future, licensed to natively use NACS.
It's my understanding that Tesla released NACS as a fully open specification, with no strings attached, late last year. Prior to then, Tesla claimed that the Tesla connector (as it was then known) was free for anybody to use, but it had significant strings attached, so nobody would want to use it under those terms. Today, though, anybody can build a NACS product without licensing it from Tesla.

What's more, I know of two providers that have already announced they plan to add NACS connectors: Freewire and Flo. In addition, EVgo has long provided Tesla connectors via Tesla's CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter, but those are limited to 50 kW, and I'd expect they won't work with Ford and GM vehicles with NACS ports (assuming these EVgo adapter-based Tesla connectors are still in operation in 2025). I fully expect to hear more such announcements very soon.
It better lead to tones of 3rd party NACS stations. It would be a nightmare if there was a fast charging monopoly that emerged from this where Tesla was the only viable supplier and was also a gatekeeper for every EV (car and brand) being able to charge.
Agreed. This is the (potentially) dark side to this shift that's lurking in the back of my mind. Monopolies are rarely good for consumers. The potential positive take on this is that, because the current CCS networks will soon be directly competing against Superchargers, it will force the current CCS providers to put more resources into improving site reliability. I'm not an expert on what's going on in Europe, but I get the impression that non-Tesla DC fast chargers there are more reliable than they are in the US, so it does seem to be possible using more-or-less the same hardware. (I'd be interested to hear from somebody with more direct personal experience of the charging situation in Europe.)

I also see an opportunity for some providers to specialize in ways that Tesla isn't doing. For instance, Tesla is focusing on larger and larger Supercharger sites; in the US, they now average at something over 10 stalls per site. (That average includes older installations; I don't know what the average size is for new sites.) There is room for smaller installations, though -- at out-of-the-way restaurants on small rural highways, at convenience stores and coffee shops in urban or suburban areas, etc. Some of these were the sorts of sites that EVgo and ChargePoint were focusing on five years ago, and with Tesla focusing on the big mega-sites, doubling down on the small-site strategy could give these competing networks some breathing room. OTOH, it may be easier to make the mega-sites profitable, so there may be challenges to this approach.
there will still be CCS signaling crap to work out.
That's a point that's getting overlooked. Some of the problems with the CCS networks relate to signaling incompatibilities caused by the complexity of the CCS protocols and the number of parties involved in implementing them. Tesla opening the Supercharger network to (potentially) any manufacturer that adopts NACS will make it subject to these same issues. That said, if non-Tesla automakers start designing with Superchargers in mind, they're likely to do extensive testing on Superchargers before releasing new vehicles, so reliability on the Supercharger network, at least, should be fairly good -- assuming Tesla doesn't constantly tweak the software on its end, in ways that might be disruptive.
 
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