Found this little gem on my $55K Model Y

[rxlawdude]

The simple truth is years on and Tesla buyers are paying a premium for a new car that is factory faulty in every sense of the automotive industry for various reasons.

Again, imply the problem exists for all without evidence.

 

[electricar]

I’ve always wondered what it would be like to pay full price for an engineering prototype

We should each get a Tesla R&D Team ball cap when we take delivery of our cars

 

[rxlawdude]

We should each get a Tesla R&D Team ball cap when we take delivery of our cars

They used to give you a ball cap when taking delivery. Though it was the "Tesla Racing Team," not R&D.

 

[CertLive]

Again, imply the problem exists for all without evidence.

Ok I can actually provide first hand evidence on this very issue of quality control.

Here: My ongoing Model 3 troubles since day one!

And Here is the result backed by independent sources: Model 3 Customer cannon fodder & the right to full refund Dekra Report

 

[rxlawdude]

Ok I can actually provide first hand evidence on this very issue of quality control.
Here: My ongoing Model 3 troubles since day one!

"First hand" accounts do not implicate the majority of Teslas, unless you have actual statistics for all Teslas. Do you?

Also, I crack up at that OP you linked. Some people think a dust nib in the paint is reason to whine. These people need a hobby.

 

[CertLive]

"First hand" accounts do not implicate the majority of Teslas, unless you have actual statistics for all Teslas. Do you?

Also, I crack up at that OP you linked. Some people think a dust nib in the paint is reason to whine. These people need a hobby.

That OP of that material is me and as so many people fail to do is actually read things in full. Faults in all glass panels is not a dust nib etc etc. No it was a large list. So I would assume its possible you have not read the full new from the OP here too and the large response of confirmed cases. Seeing as this wonderful website represents a sizeable but not the majority of owners then you would be worried at the frequency of day one issues to be quite high that appear here. Dust nib is still a reason to whine and get fixed though.

 

[Techie-HEX]

My guess is parts shortage during COVID. You can't hold up the line for a simple plastic part!

 

[cucubits]

My guess is parts shortage during COVID. You can't hold up the line for a simple plastic part!

This shouldn't be an excuse. If they took a shortcut here, who knows what other more critical part is put together the same way.

 

[Quasar255]

My guess is parts shortage during COVID. You can't hold up the line for a simple plastic part!

WdF argument there.

Covid also reduced my income a bit. Can I buy it $2000 cheaper.

 

[bhzmark]

Sounds exactly right below. Anyone who continues to complain about this without dealing with this much more plausible explanation is just dealing with their fantasy to support their complaint rather than the rational and best-evidence-so-far based explanation of this. Which one are you?

You're assuming it is for support of the exchanger.

My opinion based on the images I've seen:

The LCC is on the high side of the compressor loop, there are two large round ports (green) that mate to the metal manifold. The LCC bolts to this manifold with 4 fasteners (orange). This connection is strong enough to handle 200ish psi x the port area. Plenty strong to handle the mass of the LCC. The LCC itself is a stack of stamped and brazed plates, also very strong.

Then look at the strap. It has almost no angle relative to the assembly, it is not constrained against sliding, nor are the corners bent (formed). This would not stop the LCC from sagging nor does the setup look correct to reduce vibration. Further, the nylon is not structurally able to provide support.

So then, what does it do? The liquid side of things is provided by two rectangular ports (blue) from the plastic/nylon manifold assembly. This is bolted to the metal manifold, but it is not fastened directly to the LCC (since they are mounted to the same piece, it's almost the same). More critically, it does not have any fasteners between the two ports.
The coolant system operates under low pressure (pump induced only verus an ICE that runs at 16psi to raise the boiling point) thus the amount of sealing force needed is also low.
My thought is that the strap fastens the cross support (red) between the ports to the LCC to provide more sealing force and keep them in contact. This compensates for any distortion in the nylon piece or relative movement due to differences in coefficient of thermal expansion. The nylon is bent (deformed) to provide preload and the natural bend of the strap does also. As long as contact is maintained, the system stays sealed.

Picture from Munro, markups mine.
View attachment 587391

This guy below, laughably confessing to be a terrible engineer, clearly dealing in the fantasy department.

folks here questioning ‘Folks it has to do with NVH’ has no clue.

coming from automotive engineer here...
with micro vibrations, that wood will compress under that clooge of a thing strap, and the whole assembly will loose it’s purpose.

That’s now how parts are assembled in automotive engineering world.

This thing is up for a major recall for safety. Who ever authorized this decision has no idea of basic vibrations theory in automotive world. Amazing for a $60,000 car.

And this one below just trafficking in insults rather than dealing with the facts and evidence.

you are trying to talk reason to tesla fan boys

 

[Daniel in SD]

Sounds exactly right below. Anyone who continues to complain about this without dealing with this much more plausible explanation is just dealing with their fantasy to support their complaint rather than the rational and best-evidence-so-far based explanation of this. Which one are you?

I agree with the explanation but I don't think it's irrational to be worried about this fix. That's probably a very expensive assembly. I predict that Tesla will change the design to eliminate the strap. When that happens I suppose someone could argue that they only redesigned it to eliminate the labor of the putting on the strap but I suspect that it's a real reliability issue. Only time will tell!

 

[mongo]

I agree with the explanation but I don't think it's irrational to be worried about this fix. That's probably a very expensive assembly. I predict that Tesla will change the design to eliminate the strap. When that happens I suppose someone could argue that they only redesigned it to eliminate the labor of the putting on the strap but I suspect that it's a real reliability issue. Only time will tell!

Ideally, the nylon cross piece would have a fastener or two into the LCC, which would have to be tabs that bracket the ports like the refrigerant side. I'm thinking the strap is not such a bad approach. The concern would be if the corner material is operating at yield or not. The amount of additional force due to differential acceleration should be near zero. If not at yeild, it will kerp things tight. If the strap and/ or nylon brace is set up in a spring configuration, even if the material compreses or ages, the ports will stay sealed.

 

[mark95476]

Great post. Finally, some real info and meaningful analysis instead of speculation and boring chatter.

Some things to consider:
1) There are some earlier builds with softer material that seemed to have crushed the corner protection. Were there any leaks?
2) CoryS from Munro said the steel band on one of their newer test vehicles cracked the nylon brace. Were there any leaks?
3) I think the first MY service schedule for the AC system is to refresh the desiccant after 4 years. When do they check the AC system seals for leaks? ...Never?

Maybe someone with a reliability hat on saw that and said something like "this looks great and all, but let's make sure nothing ever goes wrong. Here's a mostly non-invasive back-up that will probably never be needed." A Tesla bean counter didn't come in tabulate the price of the steel band, various corners, tape, labor,... etc... and say "nope" and over-ride engineering.

You're assuming it is for support of the exchanger.

My opinion based on the images I've seen:

The LCC is on the high side of the compressor loop, there are two large round ports (green) that mate to the metal manifold. The LCC bolts to this manifold with 4 fasteners (orange). This connection is strong enough to handle 200ish psi x the port area. Plenty strong to handle the mass of the LCC. The LCC itself is a stack of stamped and brazed plates, also very strong.

Then look at the strap. It has almost no angle relative to the assembly, it is not constrained against sliding, nor are the corners bent (formed). This would not stop the LCC from sagging nor does the setup look correct to reduce vibration. Further, the nylon is not structurally able to provide support.

Agreed. That nylon bracing would be the obvious weak link, if this was structural. Four bolts should be plenty strong to keep the LCC in place.

So then, what does it do? The liquid side of things is provided by two rectangular ports (blue) from the plastic/nylon manifold assembly. This is bolted to the metal manifold, but it is not fastened directly to the LCC (since they are mounted to the same piece, it's almost the same). More critically, it does not have any fasteners between the two ports.

Agreed. My opinion: The brace you highlighted keeps things square/flush and there's everything behind (fluid reservoir...etc...) that should keep the two rectangular ports from getting distorted or pushed away from the manifold.

The coolant system operates under low pressure (pump induced only verus an ICE that runs at 16psi to raise the boiling point) thus the amount of sealing force needed is also low.
My thought is that the strap fastens the cross support (red) between the ports to the LCC to provide more sealing force and keep them in contact. This compensates for any distortion in the nylon piece or relative movement due to differences in coefficient of thermal expansion. The nylon is bent (deformed) to provide preload and the natural bend of the strap does also. As long as contact is maintained, the system stays sealed.

Those bright red seals are there to couple the nylon to the metal and take-up any movement or expansion. I don't think it make sense to deform the nylon (like an interference fit) with the red seals. You'll crush and distort the seals.

Picture from Munro, markups mine.
View attachment 587391

 

[Daniel in SD]

Ideally, the nylon cross piece would have a fastener or two into the LCC, which would have to be tabs that bracket the ports like the refrigerant side. I'm thinking the strap is not such a bad approach. The concern would be if the corner material is operating at yield or not. The amount of additional force due to differential acceleration should be near zero. If not at yeild, it will kerp things tight. If the strap and/ or nylon brace is set up in a spring configuration, even if the material compreses or ages, the ports will stay sealed.

Maybe. The other obvious concern with this fix is the number of variations (fake wood, at least two different types of plastic L pieces, sometimes two plastic L's, sometimes one, and sometimes none). The strap itself looks like it's installed by hand. Is there a tool that measures the tension? My experience with AC systems is that it's best if the last the life life of the car, once they fail they seem to be difficult to fix long term.
Personally, if I totaled my Model 3 today I would not buy a Model Y until this part is revised. (I also wouldn't accept a vehicle that needed any rework at delivery or in the first 7 days, as it sounds like cars are being sold more "as-is" now.)

 

[mark95476]

Yes, it's all to obvious concern trolling. Times are tough for the Tesla trolls and FUDsters and they'll left to nitpick inconsequential fluff.

If Tesla are taking note: Tesla should include more of these "Easter Eggs" to get the trolls worked-up and frothing at the mouth. It's amusing watching them be so pathetic.

What is the safety defect going to be? Catch fire? Cause the brakes to fail? Sudden unintended acceleration? Loss of headlights?

 

[asa8080]

Internet joke which seems to be real - do not trust users with numbers in name (because many of them trolls/bots)
Just to think about - that "issue" was found quite a time ago, no service bulletin or recall for that - maybe it's do a nothingburger...?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Internet joke which seems to be real - do not trust users with numbers in name (because many of them trolls/bots)
Just to think about - that "issue" was found quite a time ago, no service bulletin or recall for that - maybe it's do a nothingburger...?

Why would there be a recall? It's not a safety issue even if it fails.
If this does turn out to be a reliability issue then there probably won't be a TSB until there is a fix that doesn't involve replacing the whole assembly.

 

[asa8080]

Why would there be a recall? It's not a safety issue even if it fails.
If this does turn out to be a reliability issue then there probably won't be a TSB until there is a fix that doesn't involve replacing the whole assembly.

Recalls happened for issues not even related to safety.
I had a CR-V with recall for possible rust on license plate holder and Nissan for other minor issue.

My point was with BIG amount of Tesla haters (equal or maybe exceed of fanboy camp ) if that would be a real issue, that would be addressed in some way. If such "issue" would happened with GM Cruise or Nissan Sentra, nobody would care imo

 

[CertLive]

Why would there be a recall? It's not a safety issue even if it fails.
If this does turn out to be a reliability issue then there probably won't be a TSB until there is a fix that doesn't involve replacing the whole assembly.

I just wondered that mask you have on in the picture was that a bulletin fix for the model 3 AC smell issue I had? If only I had one under my seat... but yes true whats the worst that could happen it drops off?

 

[Quasar255]

Recalls happened for issues not even related to safety.
I had a CR-V with recall for possible rust on license plate holder and Nissan for other minor issue.

My point was with BIG amount of Tesla haters (equal or maybe exceed of fanboy camp ) if that would be a real issue, that would be addressed in some way. If such "issue" would happened with GM Cruise or Nissan Sentra, nobody would care imo

I think it’s bit extreme to call Tesla haters to those who point out some bad quality issue.

How much GM Cruise and Nissan Sentra sell for, compared to MY?

....and, not sure about GM cruise, but Nissan will never ship off from production line with this clooge fix.