FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

[daktari]

#FSDBeta 9.0 - 2021.4.18.12 - Unprotected Left Turns Stuck in a Navigation Loop

I need some more eyes on this to help me understand what is going on. Check it out.

Thanks for showing us!

Don't put yourself in harms way anymore testing those turns, FSD is totally uncapable of handling that in a safe and consistent way.

For me it seems sensing is an issue, you can identify a safe gap ca.5 seconds before it will appear. Car does not prepare for that gap but does it adhoc it seems. Not sure if cross traffic long range radars in the bumper could help.

Path planning seem to be problematic, as well as decision making.

 

[diplomat33]

In the future and perhaps even now on some occasions, people will be disengaging fsd thinking that it's not seeing something, but it's possible that fsd is seeing it. For example, the wide angle forward camera is placed much further forward than the human's perspective.

But it is called "mind of car". It is supposed to show us what the car is seeing and thinking so that we can have confidence in the system. If it is seeing something but not showing it, then it is not doing a good job as the "mind of car". And if it does not show something on the screen, then it is very reasonable for the driver to assume that the car cannot see it and disengage out of an abundance of caution.

 

[daktari]

I feel it's very important that we get a proper Tesla response to this.

Have some backbone, take responsibility and issue a real analysis of what's going on here.

If they KNOW that FSD Beta cannot handle this situation, they should tell us. These testers are risking their life and on-coming drivers lives to attempt to test the system. Why? Because they have been given the privilege to test it but given no clear guidelines on how (except that it may do the wrong thing; how callous).

FSD Beta appears to be attempting to drive right out into on-coming traffic time and again!

C'mon Tesla, respond to this!

Agree. I would almost say it should not be tested on public roads.

In the US you seem to have a combination of some really easy and difficult roads;
wide, straight, a few traffic lights, no prob for FSd. And then these 3 lane, 60 mph unprotected left turns, really hard.

It is a failure that the system does not reroute instead of choosing a path which is outside of its capabilities, it can't handle it safely.

 

[Dan D.]

But it is called "mind of car". It is supposed to show us what the car is seeing and thinking so that we can have confidence in the system. If it is seeing something but not showing it, then it is not doing a good job as the "mind of car". And if it does not show something on the screen, then it is very reasonable for the driver to assume that the car cannot see it and disengage out of an abundance of caution.

That would be one way of driving with it! So if it doesn't show monorail pillars, disengage. If it doesn't show vehicles past the infinity cut-off zone, then it's not seeing them. Still, you shouldn't be "watching" the screen at all really.

 

[rxlawdude]

It is generally believed that the wide-field camera is useless.

I really must laugh out loud at statements like this. "Generally" means as the rule, with some exceptions.

Please point me to the statistic where the question was posed and answered by a statistically valid sample size.

 

[rxlawdude]

Clearly not ready for primetime. I notice the visualizations don't start showing vehicles until they are within a certain distance. But for fast moving vehicles, this doesn't inspire confidence that the vehicle is detecting them further out. And maybe they are not.

More speculation and opinions from rear ends (not calling you a rear end, just identifying the likely source of your statement). Do you know for a fact they do or do not process prior to rendering? Or is this just another "feeling" that many of the naysayers seem to be in chorus about?

 

[Mardak]

Unclear if this is a bug or a preview of future general release highway / navigate on autopilot, but FSD beta does have some slight differences compared to production of 1) showing all vehicles (instead of immediately adjacent lanes) and 2) Tesla Vision can reduce follow distance to 2 instead of 3 even on highways.

Here it's showing vehicles 2 and 3 lanes to the left.

 

[ZeApelido]

More speculation and opinions from rear ends (not calling you a rear end, just identifying the likely source of your statement). Do you know for a fact they do or do not process prior to rendering? Or is this just another "feeling" that many of the naysayers seem to be in chorus about?

Best compliments when some are calling me a naysayer and others like @Bladerskb keep calling me out as some uber bull on FSD, that means I'm nuanced

No, I didn't say that it didn't detect the vehicles. I'm saying that we cannot tell if it sees them or not because it seemingly limits objects detected within a certain distance away. When they are at that max distance, then they pop up. So probably most of them it sees before but doesn't show us.

My point is if that is indeed the case, it may behoove Tesla to visualize the fast moving ones to help us all gain confidence in the perception system.

 

[momo3605]

Unclear if this is a bug or a preview of future general release highway / navigate on autopilot, but FSD beta does have some slight differences compared to production of 1) showing all vehicles (instead of immediately adjacent lanes) and 2) Tesla Vision can reduce follow distance to 2 instead of 3 even on highways.

View attachment 683873
Here it's showing vehicles 2 and 3 lanes to the left.

I think NoA display has definitely been updated. I noticed the same thing. Mine only shows cars in the adjacent lane.

Follow distance of 2 and 80mph max is the same as prod build of Tesla Vision

 

[diplomat33]

That would be one way of driving with it! So if it doesn't show monorail pillars, disengage. If it doesn't show vehicles past the infinity cut-off zone, then it's not seeing them. Still, you shouldn't be "watching" the screen at all really.

View attachment 683865

Yes, the driver should keep their eyes on the road at all times and not try to "drive just with the screen".

 

[Dan D.]

Best compliments when some are calling me a naysayer and others like @Bladerskb keep calling me out as some uber bull on FSD, that means I'm nuanced

No, I didn't say that it didn't detect the vehicles. I'm saying that we cannot tell if it sees them or not because it seemingly limits objects detected within a certain distance away. When they are at that max distance, then they pop up. So probably most of them it sees before but doesn't show us.

My point is if that is indeed the case, it may behoove Tesla to visualize the fast moving ones to help us all gain confidence in the perception system.

^^^ This. I highlighted your "we cannot tell" because that's my point too. We don't know if the system knows.

Also +1 for use of behoove

 

[dgatwood]

It is generally believed that the wide-field camera is useless.

I really must laugh out loud at statements like this. "Generally" means as the rule, with some exceptions.

Please point me to the statistic where the question was posed and answered by a statistically valid sample size.

Let me put it this way: A lot of people have made similar comments over the years, and I've seen exactly zero people disagree with that statement thus far.

Either way, with corner-facing cameras active, the wide front camera would be completely useless, because those other cameras would completely replace the entire field-of-view of the wide front camera and then some, but would do so at a much higher resolution and with far less distortion.

 

[ZeApelido]

^^^ This. I highlighted your "we cannot tell" because that's my point too. We don't know if the system knows.

Also +1 for use of behoove

Fun fact, in Swedish the word behöva means "to need".

 

[MP3Mike]

Either way, with corner-facing cameras active, the wide front camera would be completely useless, because those other cameras would completely replace the entire field-of-view of the wide front camera and then some, but would do so at a much higher resolution and with far less distortion.

That isn't true. The wide front camera is significantly in front of the B-pillar cameras. Such that there are cases where an obstruction, like a fence or shrubs, would completely block the B-pillar cameras view but the wide front camera would still be able to see in that direction.

 

[mark95476]

Rendering all vehicles is a great enhancement to the vision-only stack.

Unclear if this is a bug or a preview of future general release highway / navigate on autopilot, but FSD beta does have some slight differences compared to production of 1) showing all vehicles (instead of immediately adjacent lanes) and 2) Tesla Vision can reduce follow distance to 2 instead of 3 even on highways.

View attachment 683873
Here it's showing vehicles 2 and 3 lanes to the left.

 

[mhan00]

excellent drive from Brandon. He’s sounding like he’s in love with this new update for him. A couple of interventions, but mostly an incident free drive. The car still struggles on those small roundabouts he has, but it‘s just acting hesitant and slow instead of trying to drive straight through the islands like it has done in previous builds, so improvement.

 

[mhan00]

Brandon also sounds like he loves the vision only NoAP on freeways. Says it’s way smoother than the one with radar enabled and keeps tracks of cars ahead much better on curves than before, which makes sense since the radar covered only the area in front of the car.

 

[mhan00]

One thing that has looked to be a consistent improvement across every vid I’ve seen so far is that the Beta handles wide lanes much, much better now than it has in the past. It doesn’t swerve or constantly try to keep to the center and more naturally sticks a bit to the left lane line.

 

[Dan D.]

Frenchie is back!
His summary: "Mixed Feelings"
My summary: Short drive, some disengagements, he sounds frustrated - mainly because he's letting it try, try, try.
He is also back-seat driving and talking to the car. "What are we doing? No. Why are we here?" : )

 

[Tez~La]

This is the HUGE improvement we were expecting? Really?
The graphics look better but not impressed by its driving.
I think I bought some snake oil.