FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

[EVNow]

Chuck says 10.1 is a regression and not ready for big FSD Beta expansion. That might be why Elon delayed the FSD Beta expansion to button pressers to 10.2.

Hmmm ... that is not how it works.

We have to understand that each release might have some improvements and some regressions. An individual might experience more of regressions than improvements in a release. The FSD team will look at the sum total of feedback (esp the non-verbal data coming back) to determine what regressions & improvements they actually delivered in the release.

Yes, certain features can regress in a release - but that doesn't make the whole release a "regression".

 

[diplomat33]

Hmmm ... that is not how it works.

We have to understand that each release might have some improvements and some regressions. An individual might experience more of regressions than improvements in each release. The FSD team will look at the sum total of feedback (esp the non-verbal data coming back) to determine what regressions & improvements they actually had in the release.

Yes, certain features can regress in a release - but that doesn't make the whole release a "regression".

True. But Chuck obviously felt like there were enough regressions that he experienced on his drives that 10.1 was not ready for wide expansion.

 

[EVNow]

True. But Chuck obviously felt like there were enough regressions that he experienced on his drives that 10.1 was not ready for wide expansion.

That is his personal opinion based on his individual circumstances. There are several others who didn't feel the same way. BTW, he seems to specialize in unprotected left turns with fast cross traffic. In my usual driving around I probably won't find them even if I specifically search for them. In every such case here, they have installed traffic lights - since it is obviously unsafe.

 

[momo3605]

True. But Chuck obviously felt like there were enough regressions that he experienced on his drives that 10.1 was not ready for wide expansion.

I’m kind of skeptical of Chuck’s claim that 10.1 is an overall regression, since in his videos, he’s never called out an area as specifically regressed. From his first impression videos to unprotected left turns, he’s always said that 10.1 doesn’t feel any different at all from 10.0. I’m not sure how he jumped to “it’s a regression” all of a sudden.

 

[Sporty]

True. But Chuck obviously felt like there were enough regressions that he experienced on his drives that 10.1 was not ready for wide expansion.

I don’t think the issue is 10.1 vs 10.2 as much as it’s a testing problem on releases. It’s not great that a release can slide backwards. Eg say 10.2 is ‘good’ and they expand.. what stops semi-serious regressions from appearing in 10.3 or 10.4.

Whatever slipped through represents missing test coverage.. Rolling releases help some but they should be doing more to plug those gaps.

 

[EVNow]

I don’t think the issue is 10.1 vs 10.2 as much as it’s a testing problem on releases. It’s not great that a release can slide backwards. Eg say 10.2 is ‘good’ and they expand.. what stops semi-serious regressions from appearing in 10.3 or 10.4.

Whatever slipped through represents missing test coverage.. Rolling releases help some but they should be doing more to plug those gaps.

Regressions on CNN are not the same as ones in traditional coding. Its about optimizing for various scenarios and you can't optimize all of them.

 

[dcesq06]

Agreed. While I'm hopeful they'll go further than 500-1k drivers, I don't see a world where they continue with 1k/day for more than a few days. Doing so will give Elon cover to claim they've 'widely' expanded the beta, while limiting risk. When they pause he'll make a promise to resume rollout when version xyz is ready.

I don’t think any of us will be (would be) surprised when Elon, regretfully, halts expanding the group of beta testers, and then promises that they will resume expanding when xyz is ready?

But, realistically, with what we are currently seeing with 10.1, what makes us think that xyz is coming in 2021? Regardless, I expect Tesla to slowly continue expanding the number of beta testers - but no where near the level of opening the flood gates that many of us are expecting.

If I truly believed that Tesla would expand beta testing by 1000/day, I probably wouldn’t care about my safety score because I would eventually get it in a matter of weeks. However, since I don’t believe that is going to happen, I view this weekend as a rare opportunity to get into the beta program; and, I don’t see that opportunity arising again for several months. So I’m going all out to get in now while the proverbial door is at least ajar.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

True. But Chuck obviously felt like there were enough regressions that he experienced on his drives that 10.1 was not ready for wide expansion.

But Chuck isn't the one making the decision, is he? He is unfortunately just part of Tesla's unpaid marketing division (which is what these original you tubers are). I doubt they are providing any real, actionable feedback. That is what the in-house professional testers are doing. It's actually kind of humorous how he refers to himself as part of the FSD team in his videos.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

This is my concern/skepticism with Elon's plan of a thousand/day. Tesla KNOWS that the software isn't ready for rapid expansion, but yet it plans to expand the beta test group by 1k per day starting this weekend?

Remember that Tesla rolled out AP1 in October 2015 to the entire user base all at once, who had never used any sort of automation (short of TACC) in their cars previously. And there were extremely limited nags at that initial release. Yes there were some bad publicity stunts that forced the addition of more nags, but overall there were very few accidents as a result of using AP1 properly.

What makes you think they will be any less aggressive with their FSD rollout, considering the mitigations such as Safety Score they have already put into place?

 

[EVNow]

Tesla KNOWS that the software isn't ready for rapid expansion, but yet it plans to expand the beta test group by 1k per day starting this weekend?

A typical example of someone who writes as if their speculation is fact.

Lets be clear - its your opinion that the software isn't ready for rapid expansion. Then you speculate Tesla also thinks so.

C'mmon - my kids in elementary school are learning the difference between facts and opinion.

 

[Dan D.]

But Chuck isn't the one making the decision, is he? He is unfortunately just part of Tesla's unpaid marketing division (which is what these original you tubers are). I doubt they are providing any real, actionable feedback. That is what the in-house professional testers are doing. It's actually kind of humorous how he refers to himself as part of the FSD team in his videos.

We don't know how any of the feedback from the FSD Beta testers is used by the development team. If they were truly listening to the civilian testers they might fix things like not turning the wheel before turning across traffic which people keep bringing up - and is disconcerting to the other drivers. I hope that the development team really do know how to drive safely, but I question it sometimes when they leave rolling stops and hesitating in the middle of intersections unfixed for version after version.

 

[diplomat33]

This is a nice find.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445779745707200513

 

[momo3605]

This is a nice find.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445779745707200513

It's interesting, that it seems to show up for certain people, or in certain scenarios, but not all. For example, I don't think I've seen this in any of Chuck's intersection crossings. In an earlier 9.x build there was a confirmation for round abouts in one person's videos, which also doesn't seem to be consistent across all users.

 

[diplomat33]

It's interesting, that it seems to show up for certain people, or in certain scenarios, but not all. For example, I don't think I've seen this in any of Chuck's intersection crossings. In an earlier 9.x build there was a confirmation for round abouts in one person's videos, which also doesn't seem to be consistent across all users.

Yeah. I wonder if certain conditions have to be met. For example, maybe it is only for certain roads where the car knows it has poor visibility or when cross traffic is going a certain speed? Basically, conditions where FSD Beta knows it has less confidence so it needs the driver to offer input as to when it is safe to go.

 

[EVNow]

Basically, conditions where FSD Beta knows it has less confidence so it needs the driver to offer input as to when it is safe to go.

May be FSD Beta calculated confidence at that time is lower ? That would explain the variability ...

 

[rxlawdude]

A typical example of someone who writes as if their speculation is fact.

Lets be clear - its your opinion that the software isn't ready for rapid expansion. Then you speculate Tesla also thinks so.

C'mmon - my kids in elementary school are learning the difference between facts and opinion.

"People are sayin'"...

 

[Iain]

Sometimes when you are in the cool club you don’t want everyone to join it. ...just saying

 

[stopcrazypp]

This is my concern/skepticism with Elon's plan of a thousand/day. Tesla KNOWS that the software isn't ready for rapid expansion, but yet it plans to expand the beta test group by 1k per day starting this weekend? While I understand that substantially more data is needed to optimize the NN, Tesla’s plan would be borderline reckless to proceed with its expansion plan.

Tesla has had 200ish non-employee beta testers for the past year, but by next Friday they will have suddenly expanded that number to 7k? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. And the potential liability that will ensue if Tesla does expand the beta by 1k per day — even though it’s current select group of beta testers say that the software isn’t ready yet — is substantial.

ETA: I fully expect Elon to walk back his 1k per day tweet. I do think Tesla should and will expand the beta group, but I think it will just select only 500-1000 drivers (in total with 10.2) with perfect safety scores who live in certain areas and fill a certain driving profile.

While I agree a roll out of this scale may be a bit fast, I think people are way too focused on employee vs non-employee. They have around 2000 early access testers and the gist I get is the employee ones are no different than non-employee in significance. They are people testing with their own personal vehicles and their work at Tesla may not necessarily have anything to do with testing cars. The other professional test drivers or engineers Tesla uses for internal test driving with company owned vehicles wouldn't be counted in EAP (although some may be counted if they are driving their personal vehicles).

My guess is the next step is to get to the roughly 10k Elon targeted as the next stage back then and there may be a pause after that.

 

[EVNow]

"People are sayin'"...

A former president perfected the art of saying this as if it makes it true.

 

[Dan D.]

It's interesting, that it seems to show up for certain people, or in certain scenarios, but not all. For example, I don't think I've seen this in any of Chuck's intersection crossings. In an earlier 9.x build there was a confirmation for round abouts in one person's videos, which also doesn't seem to be consistent across all users.

I'm hoping that with the wider Beta rollout there can be several friends (with different models or the same one) who can test FSD Beta on the exact same street at the same time. It will be interesting to see if there are differences in how it drives. Right now I have no hypothesis, just that some drivers say version xx.x is great and others say it's awful. But they are usually in different map areas.