I'm waiting for it to hit the $80 price tag, then I'll pounce.
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FSD now $8,000. Who's buying?
- Thread starter Elektrick
- Start date
FSD nearly killed me today by creeping into a 40mph+ roadway to make a right hand turn. It couldn't see a pickup barreling down on me until far too late, forcing him to switch lanes to avoid collision. They need to fix the B pillar placement.
You'll likely see L3 at a higher subscription price before any full autonomy is available. I think there is a growing expectation that L3 is a reasonable interim step knowing L4/L5 is not going to be available except for the dedicated autonomy vehicle which will be fleet based.
The only L3 application is highway and possibly L4 summon/valet parking.
No way Tesla takes liability on highway (at highway speed) and no way people are paying extra for summon/valet since it is already promised.
Only L3 I see happening is something similar to what MB Drive Pilot offers. I doubt that will excite people.
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I've got a 2018 Model 3 with EAP so I'm looking at the $2K price. My car has HW2.5 so upgrade to HW3.0 would be included. My questions are:
1) HW3 or HW4?
2) Do they upgrade the side cameras also? Mine are originals w/ lots of light bleed.
3) Will the parking sensors still work or will they be ignored in favor of vision-based parking only?
4) Not really a question but I assume my car's radar will be ignored
It's tempting at $2K. My wife has a '23 MYLR so I've been able to compare the way her car drives/behaves (both with and without FSDS) vs. mine. Her car's AP is definitely more refined on freeway drives. It senses slowing traffic earlier than my car and as a result, it doesn't wait until the last second to slam on the brakes. Might be worth it for that alone.
1) HW3 or HW4?
2) Do they upgrade the side cameras also? Mine are originals w/ lots of light bleed.
3) Will the parking sensors still work or will they be ignored in favor of vision-based parking only?
4) Not really a question but I assume my car's radar will be ignored
It's tempting at $2K. My wife has a '23 MYLR so I've been able to compare the way her car drives/behaves (both with and without FSDS) vs. mine. Her car's AP is definitely more refined on freeway drives. It senses slowing traffic earlier than my car and as a result, it doesn't wait until the last second to slam on the brakes. Might be worth it for that alone.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Elon said there's no pathway to upgrade HW2.5 to HW4. That means if you want HW4, you need to buy a whole new car.
In the past, no. 2.5 cameras don't get new camera updates.
USS should still work. Only radar is ignored with FSD.
Yes. There were reports that the Service Center would physically remove your physical radar when you came in for an unrelated service.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Private/public should not have any issues with the Level of Autonomy/liability.
Bosch, Mercedes-Benz New L4 Auto Parking
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#2, I’ve never seen anyone get a free upgrade to new side front quarter panel cameras for this .. some have complained they are broken and had updates, but that was usually under warranty. THEY NEED REPLACING as at night, they are useless during blinking… and I’m pretty sure my are already MIS-MOUNTED.
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
I have a 2017 Model 3 with FSD, and am considering upgrading it to new Model S. Having FSD transferability would make me MUCH more likely to pounce; it's actually quite difficult for me to see myself upgrading without it, knowing that it's likely to come back as an option at some point, and given that FSD on the 3 otherwise has no trade-in value. (I doubt it would have much value on the private market either?)
Meanwhile, I am considering a Lucid Air as an alternative option. The Lucid arguably has better sensing hardware (14 cameras + 5 radars + lidar), although not nearly as advanced software (to my knowledge) and I'm not sure how powerful their in-car computer is, or whether it would be retrofittable in the future, or what their expected timeline is for FSD-equivalent autonomy? Even if they were to "license the software" from Tesla, it's not clear how easy or difficult it might be to re-train the network for a very different set of hardware.
So likely I will delay my decision for another year or two, until there's more clarity on the Lucid front, or sooner if Tesla re-offers the FSD transfer. It's very difficult at this point for me to envision paying $8k for FSD on a new S, although if they were to offer an in-between option like "Transfer FSD for $2k", I suppose I might consider it. For now, the Model 3 continues to be just fine for getting me from Point A to Point B (Supervised)!
Meanwhile, I am considering a Lucid Air as an alternative option. The Lucid arguably has better sensing hardware (14 cameras + 5 radars + lidar), although not nearly as advanced software (to my knowledge) and I'm not sure how powerful their in-car computer is, or whether it would be retrofittable in the future, or what their expected timeline is for FSD-equivalent autonomy? Even if they were to "license the software" from Tesla, it's not clear how easy or difficult it might be to re-train the network for a very different set of hardware.
So likely I will delay my decision for another year or two, until there's more clarity on the Lucid front, or sooner if Tesla re-offers the FSD transfer. It's very difficult at this point for me to envision paying $8k for FSD on a new S, although if they were to offer an in-between option like "Transfer FSD for $2k", I suppose I might consider it. For now, the Model 3 continues to be just fine for getting me from Point A to Point B (Supervised)!
It is only on public streets that you must meet regulatory approval.MB offering is a complete joke so let's ignore that for now. And for now let's put aside whether Tesla will accept liability. There is no reason Tesla couldn't add a graceful handoff for edge cases like coming up to an accident scene or police officers directing traffic with hand gestures. L3 implemented this way would allow the driver to read, text and watch videos. Tesla could start with controlled access highways and then move to city/streets. Now back to MB. If MB improved their garbage solution to something robust it would give them a significant advantage vs Tesla in selling EV's. If not MB then BYD. You don't think BYD will implement a L3 type solution? When/if that happens Tesla will likely be forced to adopt L3 as described above. They could charge a premium subscription service and the associated liability risk would be offset by the added revenue that could approach a billion dollars in a few yearsk after the offering. How much will people pay if they don't have to pay attention and take over less than 1% of the time on all drives? I think a lot and Elon knows this. It's a wild card Tesla can deploy when the time is right.
There is zero chance Tesla hw3/hw4 will be L3 at highway speeds. Indirect liability is automatic and not optional as soon as you say L3. Civil suites will be massive when you say people need not watch the road and you kill/injure them. That's why no one does it over 60 km/h.
I think you're dissing the queue chauffeur too much. its a fine use-case that isn't science fiction (like L3 at highway speeds with vision only).
I seriously doubt there will be any city L3. Too complex ODD.
My best guess is that Tesla is using the random "transferable FSD" option as a way to control not sabotaging profits if they were to apply FSD to the Account instead of the VIN.
Tesla will always figure out a way to get what they want at the expense of anything. There are no emotions attached to Tesla in what they do, with the exception of maybe keeping the S and X models alive due to sentimental reasons, but for everything else it's just business. Like trading, we just need to study and make the right entry point. It's all a game.
I'm also in the market for a S and have dabbled into looking at Lucid. The biggest culprit for me with Lucid is the horrendous CCS port (soon to change) but also to some degree the Software UI. Tesla has by far the best software and it's a big determining factor for a lot of people, despite the other flaws and inferiority that Tesla posses over actual luxury cars like Lucid.
Fun fact: Lucid has discounted some of their in stock inventory up to ~$30K or something insane like that. A lot have been sold, but there may be some outliers left.
I think in a few years, if not a lot sooner than we think, we'll start to see some surprises from other OEMs with their advancements in Autonomy. The EAP like systems in other makers right now are really good and in some ways better than ours. When it comes to FSD, this is where Tesla is rolling in the bank of data, but that doesn't mean that other OEMs aren't working on their own tech as we speak.
Although they all, including Telsa, have flaws to some degree. watch out for Mercedes and HMG products. They have excellent driving assistance in their own way that top the rest of the legacy makers. Ford Blue drive isn't bad either.
Exciting times...
ATPMSD
Active Member
And that is a good reason to buy EAP. In my experience, however, IMHO the car does a poor job in handing interchanges and then merging into traffic, unless the interchange is rather basic and traffic is light. Here is Atlanta I found those features useless.
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