father_of_6
Membler
I'm waiting for it to hit the $80 price tag, then I'll pounce.
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You'll likely see L3 at a higher subscription price before any full autonomy is available. I think there is a growing expectation that L3 is a reasonable interim step knowing L4/L5 is not going to be available except for the dedicated autonomy vehicle which will be fleet based.When Tesla think they’re close to getting to autonomy they won’t sell it up front at all. Instead they are lowering the price. This is as close we’ll ever get to they admitting autonomy won’t happen.
The only L3 application is highway and possibly L4 summon/valet parking.You'll likely see L3 at a higher subscription price before any full autonomy is available. I think there is a growing expectation that L3 is a reasonable interim step knowing L4/L5 is not going to be available except for the dedicated autonomy vehicle which will be fleet based.
Parking lots, ASS and Banish don't have to be L3 since they are on private property.The only L3 application is highway and possibly summon/valet parking.....
If you want people to use them daily, and be prepared to pay extra for it Tesla need to make them L4 = take on liability.Parking lots, ASS and Banish don't have to be L3 since they are on private property.
I've got a 2018 Model 3 with EAP so I'm looking at the $2K price. My car has HW2.5 so upgrade to HW3.0 would be included. My questions are:
1) HW3 or HW4?
In the past, no. 2.5 cameras don't get new camera updates.2) Do they upgrade the side cameras also? Mine are originals w/ lots of light bleed.
USS should still work. Only radar is ignored with FSD.3) Will the parking sensors still work or will they be ignored in favor of vision-based parking only?
Yes. There were reports that the Service Center would physically remove your physical radar when you came in for an unrelated service.4) Not really a question but I assume my car's radar will be ignored
Parking lots, ASS and Banish don't have to be L3 since they are on private property.
#2, I’ve never seen anyone get a free upgrade to new side front quarter panel cameras for this .. some have complained they are broken and had updates, but that was usually under warranty. THEY NEED REPLACING as at night, they are useless during blinking… and I’m pretty sure my are already MIS-MOUNTED.I've got a 2018 Model 3 with EAP so I'm looking at the $2K price. My car has HW2.5 so upgrade to HW3.0 would be included. My questions are:
1) HW3 or HW4?
2) Do they upgrade the side cameras also? Mine are originals w/ lots of light bleed.
3) Will the parking sensors still work or will they be ignored in favor of vision-based parking only?
4) Not really a question but I assume my car's radar will be ignored
It's tempting at $2K. My wife has a '23 MYLR so I've been able to compare the way her car drives/behaves (both with and without FSDS) vs. mine. Her car's AP is definitely more refined on freeway drives. It senses slowing traffic earlier than my car and as a result, it doesn't wait until the last second to slam on the brakes. Might be worth it for that alone.
In the past, no. 2.5 cameras don't get new camera updates.
It can be called whatever you want since regulations don't apply to operation on private property. This is how we have had Dumb A$$ Smart Summon all these years. It should be called negative L4. It is only on public streets that you must meet regulatory approval.Private/public should not have any issues with the Level of Autonomy/liability.
Bosch, Mercedes-Benz New L4 Auto Parking
MB offering is a complete joke so let's ignore that for now. And for now let's put aside whether Tesla will accept liability. There is no reason Tesla couldn't add a graceful handoff for edge cases like coming up to an accident scene or police officers directing traffic with hand gestures. L3 implemented this way would allow the driver to read, text and watch videos. Tesla could start with controlled access highways and then move to city/streets. Now back to MB. If MB improved their garbage solution to something robust it would give them a significant advantage vs Tesla in selling EV's. If not MB then BYD. You don't think BYD will implement a L3 type solution? When/if that happens Tesla will likely be forced to adopt L3 as described above. They could charge a premium subscription service and the associated liability risk would be offset by the added revenue that could approach a billion dollars in a few yearsk after the offering. How much will people pay if they don't have to pay attention and take over less than 1% of the time on all drives? I think a lot and Elon knows this. It's a wild card Tesla can deploy when the time is right.The only L3 application is highway and possibly L4 summon/valet parking.
No way Tesla takes liability on highway (at highway speed) and no way people are paying extra for summon/valet since it is already promised.
Only L3 I see happening is something similar to what MB Drive Pilot offers. I doubt that will excite people.
There is zero chance Tesla hw3/hw4 will be L3 at highway speeds. Indirect liability is automatic and not optional as soon as you say L3. Civil suites will be massive when you say people need not watch the road and you kill/injure them. That's why no one does it over 60 km/h.MB offering is a complete joke so let's ignore that for now. And for now let's put aside whether Tesla will accept liability. There is no reason Tesla couldn't add a graceful handoff for edge cases like coming up to an accident scene or police officers directing traffic with hand gestures. L3 implemented this way would allow the driver to read, text and watch videos. Tesla could start with controlled access highways and then move to city/streets. Now back to MB. If MB improved their garbage solution to something robust it would give them a significant advantage vs Tesla in selling EV's. When/if that happens Tesla will likely be forced to adopt L3 as described above. They could charge a premium subscription service and the associated liability risk would be offset by the added revenue that could approach a billion dollars in a few yearsk after the offering. How much will people pay if they don't have to pay attention and take over less than 1% of the time on all drives? I think a lot and Elon knows this. It's a wild card Tesla can deploy when the time is right.
I have a 2017 Model 3 with FSD, and am considering upgrading it to new Model S. Having FSD transferability would make me MUCH more likely to pounce; it's actually quite difficult for me to see myself upgrading without it, knowing that it's likely to come back as an option at some point, and given that FSD on the 3 otherwise has no trade-in value. (I doubt it would have much value on the private market either?)
Meanwhile, I am considering a Lucid Air as an alternative option. The Lucid arguably has better sensing hardware (14 cameras + 5 radars + lidar), although not nearly as advanced software (to my knowledge) and I'm not sure how powerful their in-car computer is, or whether it would be retrofittable in the future, or what their expected timeline is for FSD-equivalent autonomy? Even if they were to "license the software" from Tesla, it's not clear how easy or difficult it might be to re-train the network for a very different set of hardware.
So likely I will delay my decision for another year or two, until there's more clarity on the Lucid front, or sooner if Tesla re-offers the FSD transfer. It's very difficult at this point for me to envision paying $8k for FSD on a new S, although if they were to offer an in-between option like "Transfer FSD for $2k", I suppose I might consider it. For now, the Model 3 continues to be just fine for getting me from Point A to Point B (Supervised)!
You basically lose the repeater camera at night when signaling.This is probably fine, so long as it doesn't affect or degrade the operation of FSD in any way compared to cars with newer cameras.
I have a MS 2018 with EAP and thinkig the same thing. Upgrading $2K for FSD will be awesome to breathe life into the car. I plan to keep for a long time because I have free supercharging for lifetime.I am also thinking about upgrading to FSD for $2,000 for my 2018 M3 with EAP.
Main reason for me is that, I want FSD to be transferred to a new car purchase when they allow it again.
Currently, side cameras have light bleed, would the FSD upgrade include newer camera replacements too?
Not really, IMO. With EAP I personally value
1) both the automatic + "initiated" lane changes...with no disengage / re-engage the system.
2) Handling interchanges. (So it will get to the appropriate lanes when the highway splits, changing interstates, etc.)
That being said, Autosteer itself does have decent value. "Stay in this lane and don't hit anything" is a significant stress reliever as long as you don't mind not changing lanes.