Tam
Well-Known Member
Auto Green Stop is a feature of the old FSD.
Current FSD graduated from that feature and it responds to signs and lights appropriately: Auto Stop, Auto go, Auto turns...
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FSD now $8,000. Who's buying?
- Thread starter Elektrick
- Start date
Auto Green Stop is a feature of the old FSD.
Current FSD graduated from that feature and it responds to signs and lights appropriately: Auto Stop, Auto go, Auto turns...
It's shocking how Elon has not just seemingly ignored Tesla and let the competition catch up and in some cases pass them. The only thing Elon has left in his pocket is FSD. At some point he will need to give it away free.. my guess is within the next 3 years. I don't see Tesla making any major platform upgrade before then especially after the release of highland. Tesla will have to continue a price war, but even that can only last so long before the competition is position to bite back and if the Chinese land on US soil.. Tesla will be in big trouble.
My experience with nags is that if I am looking straight at the road there are rarely nags, like one nag in 3 minutes depending on speed with relation to the posted limit.
As I tap the accelerator to increase speed, or the traffic is speeding such that FSD also speeds the nags are more frequent, especially at 15-20 mph over the speed limit.
It is interesting how different experiences are with this software. I certainly can take both hands off the wheel for over 60 seconds within 5 mph of the posted limit, as long as I watch the road and don't let the camera see me looking at my cell phone.
I find that if I have a patient attitude I can deal with the slow driving a bit better. I am NOT typically a slow lane driver, but when I can accept there are faster drivers and they will pass me on the windy highway that is hwy 17, then my commute is much easier, though 3-5 minutes longer.
I don't see Tesla giving away the best version of FSD for free, but certainly as the best version gets better, they will give away better versions for free. There will always be some important differences between the free version designed to increase driver safety and higher end versions that can now take over most all the driving tasks.
I think we will see a drive across the country this year with 0 safety critical interventions.
Max Spaghetti
Member
One metric we haven't been able to measure yet is the "rate of improvement" of V12 in successive updates. Until then, I doubt a timeframe can be estimated.
When I have fsd engaged, I'm a test pilot, and should be paid accordingly. On one occasion, I would have been in a serious high speed accident if I had not taken over immediately. When I have used fsd in a typical 15 mile commute, I encounter, on average, 3 times when the system does something dangerously stupid. If one were to believe Elon, fsd is about 10% complete, because he has said that it is a $100,000 feature once it actually works. (The average of last week's 12k price and this week's 8k is $10,000)
Tesla has been bilking folks for various versions of this dangerous software for about 9 years. So if we are 10% to the real deal, then we have another 81 years to go. Until then, Tesla should be paying test drivers instead of putting the public at risk.
Mercedes is further along, and is now selling level 3 cars, while Tesla is stuck at level 2. The price for the Merc system is about $5,000. Fsd must be worth far less than that, if it is worth anything.
Only if one considers the Tesla fsd system a plaything does it have any value.
But if you want to play with your life, then fly aerobatics, or hang glide, or race motorcycles. I've done all those, and they are far more engaging than driving a Tesla on fsd... and at least you will feel that you are in control. Properly driven, fsd does, and should, make driving more stressful than without it engaged, because the driver has to be so alert to the next dangerous decision the system makes.
A Kawasaki Ninja 400 is an excellent handling bike that can be raced -- it's a great starter bike. You can get one for far less than $8000. If you crash on a race track, you are likely to be the only one who is injured or dies. Whereas, when fsd steers you into the path of an overtaking vehicle, you may be taking your family and the other driver's family with you on your ride to oblivion. As a plaything, the Kaw is a much better deal than fsd.
If you are looking for something that will make driving safer (rather than a toy) then fsd has no apparent value. Better to buy a Mercedes. Testing fsd is interesting but stressful, and because you are helping to develop a future viable system, you should be well-paid. (My road racing sponsor at least paid my hotel bills.)
Tesla has been bilking folks for various versions of this dangerous software for about 9 years. So if we are 10% to the real deal, then we have another 81 years to go. Until then, Tesla should be paying test drivers instead of putting the public at risk.
Mercedes is further along, and is now selling level 3 cars, while Tesla is stuck at level 2. The price for the Merc system is about $5,000. Fsd must be worth far less than that, if it is worth anything.
Only if one considers the Tesla fsd system a plaything does it have any value.
But if you want to play with your life, then fly aerobatics, or hang glide, or race motorcycles. I've done all those, and they are far more engaging than driving a Tesla on fsd... and at least you will feel that you are in control. Properly driven, fsd does, and should, make driving more stressful than without it engaged, because the driver has to be so alert to the next dangerous decision the system makes.
A Kawasaki Ninja 400 is an excellent handling bike that can be raced -- it's a great starter bike. You can get one for far less than $8000. If you crash on a race track, you are likely to be the only one who is injured or dies. Whereas, when fsd steers you into the path of an overtaking vehicle, you may be taking your family and the other driver's family with you on your ride to oblivion. As a plaything, the Kaw is a much better deal than fsd.
If you are looking for something that will make driving safer (rather than a toy) then fsd has no apparent value. Better to buy a Mercedes. Testing fsd is interesting but stressful, and because you are helping to develop a future viable system, you should be well-paid. (My road racing sponsor at least paid my hotel bills.)
If FSD(S) or FSDBeta were really FSD, then Tesla would have an advantage. But real FSD is Level 5, and Tesla is nowhere near that. Mercedes has the brand image of building better cars than Tesla. Now, they also are gaining the brand image of moving much faster than Tesla in meaningful software development: they are at level 3, Tesla is at level 2.
Kias have better battery architecture and more interesting styling, the Chinese brands are coming,,, Even staid old GM has a truck with far better range, more torque, and more useful features than the Cybertruck.
There are no doubt some good people at Tesla, but they need a CEO who can run a car company... as a software company they are not doing well.
Anticipating reaction to this, I will have to admit, that yes, Mercedes does not produce a good fart noise.
I think this is important. Cross country in a Cessna with a run of the mill AP is boring and uneventful which is what I'd want out of Tesla's FSD. Sure, it'll try to kill you but you know exactly how it'll do it every time. FSD wants to kill me a million different ways. I used a mix of V11/V12 driving a loop around the Bay area and the disengagements were not minor and would have resulted in crashes.
beatle
Active Member
Might have something to do with the camera. Tesla figured they didn't need them in the earlier cars and now their owners are paying the price for their hubris. They've really ruined the system. Other automakers such as Ford have excellent driver monitoring cameras that allow for hands free driving with no false positives.
I'm rarely the fastest guy on the road, usually doing around 8 over, but that still puts me into the left lane to pass a lot, and the following distance is just too lazy to do that around here. Ironically, a great following distance really isn't needed with advanced ADAS since the human reaction time is no longer a factor. In a fleet of robotaxis in fact, cars could have very little following distance as they all draft each other for better efficiency. But we're a long ways off from that apparently.
SalisburySam
Active Member
Au contraire. It most certainly does when I’m in it. Oh wait…
Today I tested the nag frequency in my morning commute. It seems that when within 5 of the speed limit, the nags are approximately once per 45-60 seconds. This seems to decrease in time such that when I went 30 seconds between nags when going 85 in a 65 zone.
Where there had been many nags around sharp corners with EAP, FSDS no longer has any issues with them and even going around the right hand "Valley Surprise" there were no hands on the wheel and no nags.
As soon as my eyes began drifting I got nags immediately, so this reinforces that interior cameras seem needed with the current version.
Where there had been many nags around sharp corners with EAP, FSDS no longer has any issues with them and even going around the right hand "Valley Surprise" there were no hands on the wheel and no nags.
As soon as my eyes began drifting I got nags immediately, so this reinforces that interior cameras seem needed with the current version.
I had the EAP already, so I bit on the FSD. First drive this morning. Skittish, but it's learning. My big question is, how do I condition the nav to follow the EASY way to work (one highway to another, to my exit), instead of wanting to weave through side roads to potentially save 11 seconds?
I don't believe you can "condition" it...but you can set a strategic waypoint to get the nav to follow the path you want.
My free trial runs out within a week. Too bad as I am enjoying using it again, but not enough to pay $99/month - not sure why anyone would as long as it's still more of a novelty that requires constant attention, excess disposable income. Inferior routes, way too cautious at stop signs, occasional unpredictable hesitation on the highway (wary of car in next lane?), etc. That said V12 is a little smoother than V11, but still evolutionary IME.
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It (usually) gives 3 selections when you enter a destination. One in Blue is default and 2 in Gray that you can select from. Also you can tap the Trip Header bar and it will give alternate routes that you can choose while driving.
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