Take that crap somewhere else. We aren’t buying your short selling talking points.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
FSD on city streets coming later this year with reliability far in excess of human drivers!
- Thread starter Daniel in SD
- Start date
golfpilot
Member
Are people who have enhanced autopilot going to lose Nav on autopilot, summon, and autopilot unless they upgrade to FSD?!
Eno Deb
Active Member
So, the FSD upgrade just re-appeared in my account and it has a different fine print than the order page which makes more sense (emphasis mine):
"The current features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."
"The current features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Of course you can.
You watch what actual humans do in various situations- what the sensors see in comparison to what the human seems to, and use that to help train the AI.
"Hrm- humans seem to never change lanes if a car is approaching above rate X in the lane they want to change into- NoA shouldn't try doing that...." to give a specific example.
"Hrm- humans seem to slow down approaching on ramps when they are in the right lane to permit merging traffic- NoA should do that" to give another.
All of that is data you can collect before NoA exists (in fact you'd kind of HAVE TO unless you want to just deploy an AI with 0 data on how to do its job)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Nope.
But they also won't get the "new" FSD only features they don't have today (liike stoplights, stop signs, NoA on local roads, etc) unless they do so.
Eno Deb
Active Member
That's not how it works. The training dataset needs to be labled. Besides, NoA is an active system, meaning that actions it takes (such as changing lanes or taking an exist) change the input.You will never be able to test these functions without actually executing them (either physically or in a simulator).
We are far away from systems being able to make this kind of inference autonomously.
golfpilot
Member
So is this new thing just enhanced autopilot broken up, or is it something new that older owners need to buy into. Enhanced autopilot was supposed to have these features that are now listed as full self-driving. I passed on full self driving because that entailed full autonomy. If I'm understanding this right, I feel a little slighted.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Why do you think it's not?
Shadow mode is constantly collecting a ton of data from the sensors and driver behavior. Tesla even sends specific triggers for the car to collect and send back- like "Report back your data when car is in this situation"
Test? No.
Figure out the basic guidelines and parameters to initially train the AI? That's easily done in simulation and with real-life driver data.
]
Yes it is just Enhanced Autopilot Broken up.
New Autopilot:
Traffic Aware Cruise Control
AutoSteer
Enhanced Autopilot (Not available for purchase anymore):
Everything that New Autopilot has
Advanced Summon
Auto Park
Navigate on Autopilot
FSD
Everything Enhanced Autopilot has
Traffic lights and Stop Signs
City Street Driving
I don't own Tesla Stock.. I do however own a Model S ordered in late 2016 when they told us FSD would be coming in 6 months, Its now been a few years and we are still waiting.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You're not understanding correctly.
If you have EAP you're not losing any features (and will gain the ability to turn off requring confirmation of NoA lane changes around March 15th).
At that point- you are done. What you have is all you will get feature wise (though how well those features work might improve further).
If you want the "coming later this year" stuff you'll need to upgrade to FSD under the terms you had when you bought the car.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Because I have some experience with neural nets.
Raw data is useless without labeling.
Besides, this whole discussion is pointless. As the updated fine print shows, it is not about enabling the features but about allowing their unsupervised use.
Not sure... but I have been playing with the navigation system a lot and I’m really stunned at how accurate positioning is.
Like... try visioning the navigation system once you are parked, you will see... it’s accurate within a meter or less.
So if positioning is super precise... it should be relatively trivial to bring red light and stop sign detection
Like... try visioning the navigation system once you are parked, you will see... it’s accurate within a meter or less.
So if positioning is super precise... it should be relatively trivial to bring red light and stop sign detection
It’s gonna be kind of weird to have nav on autopilot working except for the part of stop lights etc...
I hope you are wrong but it’s obviously wishful thinking because I really don’t want to spend another $3k on my car, especially considering that they slashed the price across the board by $3k or something... and I already spent a fortune on my car.
It's not just that, but the neural network won't be as advanced. The HW2.5 computer just can't handle the size/complexity of the neural network in HW3.
There is also the fact that FSD is going to require recognition of debris to at least some degree. So that will be enabled on HW3 computers, but not likely HW2.5.
My advice for anyone on HW2.5 that plans on keeping there car long term is to upgrade. Sure it sucks, but there is absolutely no way you'll get the SW updates that HW3 car will get.
golfpilot
Member
Really though. they slash the price AND give the new car features we won't get without added cost. Its a double whammy. The same car I took delivery for in August is now significantly cheaper. Also, when I bought enhanced autopilot "Full Self Driving" referred to being fully autonomous at a 5k upgrade. Now full self-driving features half the features I already have and a couple others coming in the near future BEFORE fully autonomous driving. What is listed isn't now doesn't fall in line with what was listed when I bought the car.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Why?
Nav on AP (EAP version) is only intended for divided highways that don't have those things in the first place.
First and foremost - I am not a troll, hopefully you have seen me in previous threads and know i love Tesla. However, saying they have cash and the debt isn't a problem at all is not exactly correct. Take a look at their balance sheet, they have $8.3B in current assets and $10B in current debt which isn't great. I hate FUD and shorts as much as anyone, but let's not confuse fake news/shorts with reality.
I think it's fairly likely that the cash situation at least partially motivated the sudden move in terms of price/sales strategy changes.
Last edited:
Similar threads
