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FSD refund attempt: Tesla rep is lying

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lschult2

Member
Mar 21, 2019
12
24
Cal
I contacted Tesla for a FSD refund, and of course they refused. But the reason the rep gave was a lie. She is saying when my car was ordered with FSD, they installed different hardware which cannot be removed. My understanding is that every car (with or without EAP, with our without FSD) has the same hardware, which enables EAP trials and software updates for purchasing OTA. Yes there are tweet that Tesla will install the new computer later for FSD, but as of today there is no hardware difference between FSD and non-FSD.

Here's the discourse. Just wanted the forum's opinion on if I am reading the correctly and that the rep is purposefully lying to me.

--len

--- Len ---
I purchased FSD with my car 5/1. But since it’s been almost a year and the feature has not yet been delivered, I would like to request a refund. How can I go about this? Who should I contact?

--- Lisa L @ Tesla ---
We do not process refund requests for the removal of the Enhanced Autopilot or removal of the Full Self-Driving (FSD) feature if purchased either Pre or Post-Delivery. This is because once the option is purchased, it becomes part of the configuration, or value of the car, and is therefore non-refundable.

Keep in mind, that just like the rest of your car, these features will continue to be enhanced and grown over time to introduce new and amazing innovative functionality. Fully Autonomous vehicles are not yet approved by the government, but as soon as it is, the customers that have purchased this feature will be uploaded the firmware immediately to start enjoying this feature. You should already have some of the benefits available to you at this time.

--- Len ---
I understand not refunding EAP, as that’s something real that I’ve used the past 11 months. But FSD has not yet been delivered. There are no benefits to the purchase of this feature at this time. I’ve purchased it ahead of the production of the feature, but received zero value for that purchase. So I consider this like the deposit I put on the Model 3, which is refundable if I requested a refund before the car was delivered. Here I’m requesting a refund before any FSD feature has been delivered.
I’ve been deceived by Telsa into thinking buying FSD would result in anything. The statement by Tesla at the time of purchase was that FSD features were coming very soon. Had I know that 11 months later, I would have received nothing, there is no way I would have purchased it at the time. Had Tesla been forthright on the timing of FSD, I would have made a very different decision. So I want a refund.
To whom can I escalate this issue?

-- Lisa L @ Tesla ---
I understand what you are saying and although the FSD features have not been released, you have the hardware built into the configuration of your car. This can not be removed. Your car was built with the equipment to support this firmware once its released. FSD was advertised this way and customers had the option to purchase it or not.

Customers were made aware that this feature is coming in the future as we advance the technology, and, also wait for the government to approve a fully autonomous car to be on the road. This is not approved yet. Once it is, the firmware will be sent to your car and you will be able to have full functions of this feature.

--- Len ---
I thought all cars were built with FSD hardware. This is why purchasing FSD post-delivery is just a software update. Are you saying my understanding is incorrect? What specific hardware is installed in my car that is not installed in a car which did not order FSD?

--- Lisa L @ Tesla ---
All cars are not built with FSD Hardware, or EAP you need to purchase it this way. You purchased yours to be built into the configuration of your car. As they are building it, these features become a part of your vehicle and can not be removed. Tesla offers no refund due to the complexity of these features. I am sorry.
 

Darscot

Member
May 27, 2018
320
326
BC
I tried to have FSD refunded as well. They also refused they didn't give me the line about hardware but they tried to say it was added during configuration and could not be removed. I just told them they need to come up with a better line because if they can add it over the air they can clearly remove it as well. My specific case I feel they have been particularly unfair. I purchased my first Model 3 with just Autopilot and no FSD at launch and unfortunately it was written off in an accident. When I bought the replacement it was right when they were increasing the pricing on FSD and they specifically told me the only way to insure the best price was to get FSD on the second car at configuration. Those are the exact words the representative used "purchasing at configuration will insure the best price, it will be much more expensive than on your first car to buy it later." It is was listed at $2600 Canadian before today on my first car that is still in my account and I paid $4000 on the second. They specifically convinced me to add it to the configuration. They have been clearly instructed to just tell everyone no, there is no escalation, no alternative just piss off. I'm trying to figure out what I will do next. I don't know if I have any position legally but I'm investigating my options. It changed me from day 1 buyer on a Y to never giving them another dime. I would have been happy with $1000 credit on a Y but I can't provide business to a company that behaves this way. They are like a shady insurance company that uses the deny all claims approach. In the end the only way I could even get in contact with them was online chat. I asked to be sent the transcript for my records they said of course and then never did it. I must have called 5 times and used the online support 5 times never got a response.
 
Last edited:

PunchIT

Member
Jan 14, 2014
84
35
Washington DC
I called too and got the same response at first. After persisting the rep said when I made the FSD add on purchase, I agreed to no refund policy that was mentioned in bold letters.
I had printed the FSD description and agreement at the time I purchased FSD and there was no such mention. I called back and informed them and they said the accounting department will contact me in 5 days. It's 8 days now and no updates.
I'll update when I hear back from them.
If anyone had any luck, please post.
 
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mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,033
39,213
Michigan
For FSD purchased with the vehicle, removal would impact vehicle value and financing. (which is big weirdness of Teslas in general). To OP's point: yeah, no HW difference involved.
 

SergeyUser

Member
Feb 11, 2017
439
234
Austin, TX
It is only a matter of time until someone sues Tesla for that. They should've refunded everyone who wants it, it was discussed in lots of threads on this forum. I also gave up on trying and at least asked for Tesla for a RECEIPT on the purchase, which they also failed to generate for me for a week now.
 

Trips

"Boring bonehead questions are not cool. Next?"
Sep 22, 2015
1,215
1,406
Omaha, NE
What happens when someone goes to buy a car that the original owner paid for FSD and was refunded? You could be telling that buyer that it has the $7,000 option without knowing until after that it was no longer on there.
 

Darscot

Member
May 27, 2018
320
326
BC
Not sure why you are trying to get a refund. This is public knowledge that FSD isn't ready and that Tesla is offering to customers to buy it before it's ready in exchange of a small discount.

Because those of us that bought it early are not getting a small discount we have been hit with a large premium.

What happens when someone goes to buy a car that the original owner paid for FSD and was refunded? You could be telling that buyer that it has the $7,000 option without knowing until after that it was no longer on there.

It would be removed from the car and that will reflect online just like if someone buys it then sells the car. Adding or removing is the exact same issue and if they can add it they can remove it.
 
B

banned-66611

Guest
Fully Autonomous vehicles are not yet approved by the government, but as soon as it is, the customers that have purchased this feature will be uploaded the firmware immediately to start enjoying this feature.

That's the other lie. They don't have the tech just waiting for regulatory approval. They aren't even trying to get it approved, because it doesn't exist.

If they won't give you a refund you may have to sue.
 

SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,067
9,786
SF Bay Area
Somehow I suspect this has more to do with pricing changes for FSD than anything else and people unhappy they paid more for a feature that has changed in pricing over time. The fact that FSD features weren't ready or approved by the government was no secret and was on their website since I remember we bought our first Tesla a Model S back at the beginning of 2017. EAP and FSD were not "deposit" amounts; that was quite a stretch. Buyer's remorse and trying to attempt to get money back plain and simple, probably so the person can chance waiting it out and seeing if they can get it at a later date for less money. No one forced anyone to buy it. Everyone has free will.

I do think each car is somehow coded as to what features it has so that when OTA updates and such roll out they get pushed to the vehicles that can use them. Just like free supercharging. What came as a promo or is a purchased feature becomes part of the car.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,535
7,691
Maine
I thought Tesla has shut the door saying NoA is delivered as FSD, no?

No.
AP: TACC and autosteer
New FSD
=
EAP less AP: other niceties, including smart summon, NoA without confirmation
+
Old FSD: anything not requiring you to pay attention

Or just treat it like another Kickstarter campaign, your money is well spent.

The Rising: all-star team returns legendary Biotar 75/f1.5

Anyway a nice try!

With Kickstarter you don't pay until they have a deliverable. Other systems like IndieGoGo take your money.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,796
7,609
Visalia, CA
...you have the hardware built into the configuration of your car. This can not be removed. Your car was built with the equipment to support this firmware once its released. FSD was advertised this way and customers had the option to purchase it or not...

Yes, first 3 sentences are misleading but those 3 must go with the context of the last sentence:

"FSD was advertised this way and customers had the option to purchase it or not": It doesn't matter whatever hardware you have, once you bought FSD, whatever it takes to get you to FSD, you are guaranteed with that FSD hardware.

And it has to go with the earlier statement that:

"We do not process refund requests for the removal of the Enhanced Autopilot or removal of the Full Self-Driving (FSD) feature if purchased either Pre or Post-Delivery. This is because once the option is purchased, it becomes part of the configuration, or value of the car, and is therefore non-refundable. "

I interpret those 2 WHOLE paragraphs as: The configuration has been bought and assigned with a FSD hardware. It's been advertised as FSD. If that FSD hardware won't do the job, then Tesla will need to replace it with whatever it takes to get the job done with no extra charge because to have paid for it already. And for simplicity, that configuration stays with the car once it's paid for so subsequent owners won't pay for it again.

It's reasonable that when owners bought a feature, they want to enjoy it or get the money back.

However, it's just like a non-refundable deposit for your car. If it takes too long to get your car and you want a refund due to untimeliness, normally, you won't get it because you didn't strike out the word "non-refundable".

Same with FSD, you didn't strike out those small prints that say it depends on successful trials and governmental approvals.

If those trials fail or it won't get government approvals, then we have agreed to pay for nothing. Nothing at all.
 
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Darscot

Member
May 27, 2018
320
326
BC
I always find it interesting how many people believe that if its in the fine print its binding. Companies put all kinds of nonsense in there and it means nothing. The fundamentals of contract law both parties must receive something, there has to be an exchange. If either party fails to deliver the contract is not valid. There is no way Tesla can just say oh well you get nothing we get to keep your money its in the fine print.
 

Johnny Mac

Member
Apr 9, 2016
253
403
Alabama
Your request for a refund is ridiculous. you knew when you bought it that it did not exist yet. No promises on time were given. I just paid 2k to get FSD to add to my existing EAP purchased in July with my car. I have no clue when FSD will provide a benefit but that’s the chance I took to get it for a discount. That’s my decision just like it was yours to buy FSD when you did. No refunds on FSD. Pretty cut and dry.
 

PunchIT

Member
Jan 14, 2014
84
35
Washington DC
Your request for a refund is ridiculous. you knew when you bought it that it did not exist yet. No promises on time were given. I just paid 2k to get FSD to add to my existing EAP purchased in July with my car. I have no clue when FSD will provide a benefit but that’s the chance I took to get it for a discount. That’s my decision just like it was yours to buy FSD when you did. No refunds on FSD. Pretty cut and dry.
Sounds like you are rep OP got in touch with! ;)
 

Darscot

Member
May 27, 2018
320
326
BC
Your request for a refund is ridiculous. you knew when you bought it that it did not exist yet. No promises on time were given. I just paid 2k to get FSD to add to my existing EAP purchased in July with my car. I have no clue when FSD will provide a benefit but that’s the chance I took to get it for a discount. That’s my decision just like it was yours to buy FSD when you did. No refunds on FSD. Pretty cut and dry.

Again this is a perfect example of a contract. You give them money in advance and in exchange they provide you a discount on the product. This is a perfectly legal and binding contract. If they then decide to take away said discount and change it in to something else like Early Access Program they have broken the contract and its no longer binding. I can accept the new contract or ask for the return of my money.
 
Your request for a refund is ridiculous. you knew when you bought it that it did not exist yet. No promises on time were given. I just paid 2k to get FSD to add to my existing EAP purchased in July with my car. I have no clue when FSD will provide a benefit but that’s the chance I took to get it for a discount. That’s my decision just like it was yours to buy FSD when you did. No refunds on FSD. Pretty cut and dry.

I actually agree with this and time to move on.
 
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