Functional (!) benefits of the yoke?

[Wol747]

Large roundabouts you don’t make sharp turns. You are just doing the same as changing lanes. You may make gentle turns to change lanes on the rotary or to exit the rotary. Zero issue with using blinkers.

Medium roundabouts (1 lane rotary) you are not cutting in front of anyone to get off. Nobody is gonna turn left in front of you. No signal needed. You just drive off. You typically have smooth speed too. You don’t brake to exit. I had to check myself to see if I did and I never have. And I always signal. But I never have on these medium sized rotaries. And nobody else does either.

For tiny roundabouts (in the UK) you signal BEFORE you enter the intersection.

There is absolutely no issue with roundabouts.

Perhaps you had a habit of using signals on medium size ones.

The faster the rotary the smaller the turns (small deflection). If the rotary is functioning things never stop. So turns are typically not that Sharp because that would defeat the purpose of the rotary because you’d have to slow down for the sharp turn.

Exception is the tiny rotary in UK. But that I would argue isn’t really rotary. Just a weird intersection (with a sharp turn) that you signal ahead your intentions.

If you have an example where it doesn’t work please post a video (of you behind the Yoke showing how it doesn’t work, not your predictions that it won’t work) and GPS location. Maybe there are some weird exceptions.

Your understanding of signalling in the UK is a little awry. With the exception of going straight ahead you signal before entering, and in all cases you signal after passing the "previous" exit - and on mini roundabouts THAT's the main stalkless issue. The wheel/yoke will be in a completely different orientation.

 

[WilliamG]

Your understanding of signalling in the UK is a little awry. With the exception of going straight ahead you signal before entering, and in all cases you signal after passing the "previous" exit - and on mini roundabouts THAT's the main stalkless issue. The wheel/yoke will be in a completely different orientation.

Agreed 100%. In Hampstead Garden Suburb for example, the Hoop Lane Roundabout would be such a pain to signal off, as your yoke will be vertical and in an incredibly awkward position when you need to signal off going down to Golder’s Green or off toward Temple Fortune. Is that oddly specific? Yep. Because I’ve driven that roundabout (and ones just like it) a zillion times. The yoke simply isn’t suitable for such roundabouts.

 

[vcor]

...the yoke was what made it really easy to not pick up a plaid for the duration of my wait for my next car (Taycan Turbo Cross Turismo).

Ah, another Yoke hater who has never used it. Why are you still in the Tesla forums other to bash stuff you have never used? I'm glad you at least bought another EV as I'm more excited for people to switch to EVs no matter the brand (and the Taycan is a wonderful vehicle too).

 

[phonetele226]

It would be more helpfull than a video to a person if they got behind a yoke and tried it out. If they don't like it and can't learn how to use it then a yoke is not for them.

If Tesla was smart they would offer both. I know they are losing some sales on this.

 

[cmarshack]

Large roundabouts you don’t make sharp turns. You are just doing the same as changing lanes. You may make gentle turns to change lanes on the rotary or to exit the rotary. Zero issue with using blinkers.

Medium roundabouts (1 lane rotary) you are not cutting in front of anyone to get off. Nobody is gonna turn left in front of you. No signal needed. You just drive off. You typically have smooth speed too. You don’t brake to exit. I had to check myself to see if I did and I never have. And I always signal. But I never have on these medium sized rotaries. And nobody else does either.

For tiny roundabouts (in the UK) you signal BEFORE you enter the intersection.

There is absolutely no issue with roundabouts.

Perhaps you had a habit of using signals on medium size ones.

The faster the rotary the smaller the turns (small deflection). If the rotary is functioning things never stop. So turns are typically not that Sharp because that would defeat the purpose of the rotary because you’d have to slow down for the sharp turn.

Exception is the tiny rotary in UK. But that I would argue isn’t really rotary. Just a weird intersection (with a sharp turn) that you signal ahead your intentions.

If you have an example where it doesn’t work please post a video (of you behind the Yoke showing how it doesn’t work, not your predictions that it won’t work) and GPS location. Maybe there are some weird exceptions.

Maybe in New Hampshire you are not required by law to use a turn signal when exiting a roundabout, but here in California you are. In the example below there are two smallish roundabouts that I drive through regularly and they are sharp enough that the Yoke is in this position:

If I am traveling in the route depicted by the red line below, I should signal "right" to allow the oncoming traffic to know that I am not continuing through the circle to Calle Sarmentoso. It is the same Yoke angle when I get to Camino De Los Mares. Here I would need to wait to signal "right" before I exit the circle to Los Mares, but after I pass Bonanza so as to no confuse anyone entering the circle from Bonanza but allow traffic coming from Los Mares to enter without thinking I am continuing around the roundabout.

With the Yoke in this position your thumb is no longer near the arrows and it is next to impossible to properly signal in this case, which is why I posted my question to you.

So again, show me how you CAN actually do this, I genuinely want to see it.

 

[zoomer0056]

Sany Munro loves the yoke. Watch this video starting at 7:25.

 

[WilliamG]

Sany Munro loves the yoke. Watch this video starting at 7:25.

Sandy Munro knows a lot of things, - a good input device at all times apparently isn't one of them.

 

[Wol747]

Ah, another Yoke hater who has never used it. Why are you still in the Tesla forums other to bash stuff you have never used? I'm glad you at least bought another EV as I'm more excited for people to switch to EVs no matter the brand (and the Taycan is a wonderful vehicle too).

Straw man.
I used "yokes" for 35 years, and it was excellent for an aircraft.
It's not a question of "hating" it: I've yet to see ONE convincing argument why it makes things better unless you count the so-called "cool" thing. Most of us - at least on this forum - are progessive and tech savvy and like innovation, but just because something CAN be done doesn't always mean it SHOULD be done.
The whole Tesla UI presentation is rather like that - there's far too much poking at small icons and submenus to make it safe compared with judicious use of physical buttons. Perhaps if the car was level 5 there would be some justification for it, but none of the cars presently on the road are likely to be level 4 or 5 before they are scrapped. A reliable "driver assistance" isn't the same thing and still needs attention to be taken off the road too often.

 

[WilliamG]

Straw man.
I used "yokes" for 35 years, and it was excellent for an aircraft.
It's not a question of "hating" it: I've yet to see ONE convincing argument why it makes things better unless you count the so-called "cool" thing. Most of us - at least on this forum - are progessive and tech savvy and like innovation, but just because something CAN be done doesn't always mean it SHOULD be done.
The whole Tesla UI presentation is rather like that - there's far too much poking at small icons and submenus to make it safe compared with judicious use of physical buttons. Perhaps if the car was level 5 there would be some justification for it, but none of the cars presently on the road are likely to be level 4 or 5 before they are scrapped. A reliable "driver assistance" isn't the same thing and still needs attention to be taken off the road too often.

Yep. And using the FSD beta while using a yoke is a JOKE of epic proportions. With a wheel you can let it slip through your fingers so you’re always in control, while you watch the road. With the yoke? Good luck with that. You simply can’t grab it when you need to if it does something stupid during a maneuver. Either you watch the yoke, or you watch the road. One or the other.

 

[P85DPB]

Hello,

As referenced in a separate thread, this is intended to separate issues related to the yoke, specifically sentiment vs. function. I get that some people "love" the yoke (and some people hate it), and nobody should minimize that appreciation (or disdain). However, I'm trying to figure out how the yoke improves on the function of the wheel in a Model S.

Aside from "it looks better" or "it feels better," how does a yoke functionally improve over the wheel in a Model S? With the core function of the yoke/wheel being controlling the car's direction, how does the yoke functionally improve over the wheel?

The most frequently cited examples seem to be "it forces you to put your hands at 9 and 3, which is safer for airbag deployment" and "it gives greater visibility of the main binnacle."

Beyond those (if one allows that those are benefits), what are the other functional benefits of the yoke over the wheel?

Thanks!

Nope. The yoke is useless.

 

[whitex]

Ah, another Yoke hater who has never used it. Why are you still in the Tesla forums other to bash stuff you have never used? I'm glad you at least bought another EV as I'm more excited for people to switch to EVs no matter the brand (and the Taycan is a wonderful vehicle too).

If your definition of a Yoke hater is someone who does not like the yoke instead of a steering wheel, then yes, I am. Based on everything I have seen and/or read, I don't think I would like the yoke. I don't hate it, though I can see hating it if I bought a car with it. That said I was willing to experience it it but not enough to spend $150K to try, since Tesla did not have one available to test drive.

I am here because I still own two Model S and the forum is the the source of information on recalls, bugs, etc. Tesla does not communicate well at all, so it's hard to know whether or not a new bug is in fact a software bug that other forum member see too, or my car is crapping out, or perhaps it's an ill-conceived feature Tesla added on purpose. I will likely stop reading this forum once I no longer own any Tesla products, which might be a while as all the other EV cars I might want instead have ultra long lead times.

 

[seaweed]

After 2 weeks with the new S, both my wife and I love all the new features. (previously owned a 2017 S).
The yoke is great on NAV when I do long stretches on I95 or the turnpike. Yes, U-turns and parallel parking would be difficult but I rarely do either.

 

[zoomer0056]

After 2 weeks with the new S, both my wife and I love all the new features. (previously owned a 2017 S).
The yoke is great on NAV when I do long stretches on I95 or the turnpike. Yes, U-turns and parallel parking would be difficult but I rarely do either.

Those types of turns are not a problem for me at all. You'll learn how to do them. Go to a parking lot and give yourself some driver training.

 

[vcor]

...I've yet to see ONE convincing argument why it makes things better...

1) Perhaps safety is not that important to you. Holding the round steering wheel in the top half can break your wrists or worse should the airbag go off (it can even blind you if your hand is pushed into your eye). Yes, I know the argument is you would never hold the steering wheel in the top half, but it appears very few drivers are aware of this issue, and Tesla's yoke eliminates this risk. That's also why I expect the 3/Y will get the yoke in the next few years and others will copy the design.

2) There are other benefits, such as making tall and short people able to fully see the instrument cluster. Perhaps that's not an issue for you, but it's a design improvement that helps many others.

3) The Tesla yoke design makes more room to move in/out of the car. Again perhaps it is of no value to you, but others appreciate the design improvement.

4) Horn activation does not require massive pressure - just a light touch. I suspect some people can't even activate the horn on some legacy cars, as it requires so much pressure. The light touch on the horn button works fine, or you can move your palm against that side. Took me one try to get the hang of it (and I've never had the wipers activate). Now I understand some people like to bash something when they are pissed off at others while driving, so perhaps Tesla's horn design will not let them blow off steam as easily.

 

[TigerNinety]

I bet 9 out of 10 folks that say that never were gonna buy a Model S/X any way. They just like to use the Yoke as the justification.

FWIW, I would be the 1 out of 10 who would buy a Model S, if it weren't for the yoke. But, I'm still interested in the functional benefits. I've seen a couple of good ideas above...

 

[TigerNinety]

1) Perhaps safety is not that important to you. Holding the round steering wheel in the top half can break your wrists or worse should the airbag go off (it can even blind you if your hand is pushed into your eye). Yes, I know the argument is you would never hold the steering wheel in the top half, but it appears very few drivers are aware of this issue, and Tesla's yoke eliminates this risk. That's also why I expect the 3/Y will get the yoke in the next few years and others will copy the design.

2) There are other benefits, such as making tall and short people able to fully see the instrument cluster. Perhaps that's not an issue for you, but it's a design improvement that helps many others.

3) The Tesla yoke design makes more room to move in/out of the car. Again perhaps it is of no value to you, but others appreciate the design improvement.

4) Horn activation does not require massive pressure - just a light touch. I suspect some people can't even activate the horn on some legacy cars, as it requires so much pressure. The light touch on the horn button works fine, or you can move your palm against that side. Took me one try to get the hang of it (and I've never had the wipers activate). Now I understand some people like to bash something when they are pissed off at others while driving, so perhaps Tesla's horn design will not let them blow off steam as easily.

Thanks for this list. I've been curious about #1, I feel like there's about three sources for that issue (a 1995 NIH study, and maybe a couple of web pages); I'm not persuaded that that will determine the direction of the industry. The yoke (which I obviously don't have on my M3) has made me more conscious of hand placement, but I prefer the choice.

For #2, I'll have to defer to very tall and very short folks.

For #3, I'll have to try it in a test drive. My MS75D didn't pose a problem, but I do have more issues in my M3.

For #4, I don't have an issue, and it doesn't seem any worse than any other car's horn, but I can't compare it to a new MS horn (though I'm pretty sure I'd prefer having the whole airbag as an activation surface).

Thanks!

 

[Mark II]

1) Perhaps safety is not that important to you. Holding the round steering wheel in the top half can break your wrists or worse should the airbag go off (it can even blind you if your hand is pushed into your eye). Yes, I know the argument is you would never hold the steering wheel in the top half, but it appears very few drivers are aware of this issue, and Tesla's yoke eliminates this risk. That's also why I expect the 3/Y will get the yoke in the next few years and others will copy the design.

This is an argument against the yoke! When turning you should not do hand over hand if you want to be safe. The airbags can go off, even in a turn. The safe way to turn with an airbag is hand to hand steering: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/steeringtechniques.pdf
"This is the preferred method of steering. Two and 10 o’clock is not recommended because it can be dangerous in vehicles with smaller steering wheels and equipped with air bags"

 

[Mark II]

4) Horn activation does not require massive pressure - just a light touch. I suspect some people can't even activate the horn on some legacy cars, as it requires so much pressure. The light touch on the horn button works fine, or you can move your palm against that side. Took me one try to get the hang of it (and I've never had the wipers activate). Now I understand some people like to bash something when they are pissed off at others while driving, so perhaps Tesla's horn design will not let them blow off steam as easily.

That's assuming you press the button instead of the center, as I have been doing for the last few decades. I am not someone that honks my horn all the time, so I can't easily build new muscle memory. Twice now I have hit the center of the wheel to avoid someone reversing into me in a parking lot. In the first case the person fortunately saw me at the last second and stopped. The second case a pedestrian that was waiting for the car to reverse saw what was happening and knocked the other car on the roof. Had he not done that I may have ended up with a ding.

The point is this is also an argument against the center not activating the horn. If needing a light touch option actually helps people, then add both, but don't remove something that has been around for decades, in every single car.

 

[zoomer0056]

When turning you should not do hand over hand if you want to be safe.

The document you cite reads like it was written in the 60s. Look, they instruct that hand over hand is one way to turn the wheel.

 

[Swissness]

That’s going to age me, but I remember driving plenty of cars where the horns were not on the center of the wheel but a button on top of the stalks or a separate stalk altogether. Nobody cried bloody murder because of those, and they sold millions of those they where VW‘s, Datsun’s, 1960’s Cadillacs (or maybe Buicks) had the horn button on the spoke of the wheel not in the center.