The 2 Best Days In a Plaid Owner’s Life

[m25nyc]

We have really gone off to a lot of tangents here and you guys are all great to banter with. I had no idea this thread would have blown up into this. I do respect all of your opinions, and boy we have many!

I am going to part ways and enjoy my new car. Thank you all for the great conversation!

Before you go, did you have FSDbeta? What version of DrivePilot does your Mercedes have - how to does your Mercedes DrivePilot in real life do with:

1. on-highway self-drive including highly curved roads and narrow highways with those temporary lane concrete barriers
2. navigating off ramps and on ramps / interchanges / exits?
3. city street driving: slowing for pedestrians & red-green light detection stop/start on green?
4. city street driving: moving around double-parked delivery vans on narrow one-way streets?

These are things FSDbeta does remarkably well, better every month, and was my reason for buying my Model Y LR, plus the Supercharger network. Overall very happy even though build quality is disappointing compared to Lexus, Acura, Audi, Mercedes, although user interface and remote cabin pre-set climate app far superior on Tesla plus an API / access for 3rd party stats which are fun.

 

[sleepydoc]

Luxury car depreciation. This is not unique to Tesla. Sorry you took a bath on this.

This. Plus the that the car market and EV market especially has been crazy the last few years. I just checked inventory and I can drive home a new MS Plaid, blue with carbon fiber interior for $89k today. That’s $30k right there. If the OP bought 2 years ago, he probably bought at the peak of the shortage When everyone was paying a premium. I could have sold my MY for close to what I paid for it in 7/2020. Of course I wouldn’t have had a car to drive then…

The EQS is undoubtedly a nice car but it starts at $100k and depreciation won’t be cheap on it, either. And it’s not like Mercedes is known its reliability. I’m thinking the lease was a smart decision for him - I’m curious about the lease terms.

Edit: Saw this post

$170,000 car for 0 down and $1,400 per month over 36 months. Win.

Yes, That seems like a decent deal, but remember, you’re still paying over $50,000 to drive the car for 3 years. It may be a better deal than the Plaid you sold but not by much.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

I disagree. At least on its face the argument seems quite appropriate to me.

Similarly, if I buy an iPhone for $800 and then next week the black friday deal comes out and it's $600 I would be irritated--absolutely!--but I would not expect Apple to refund me anything. I'd be irritated at the universe and bad timing, but I wouldn't blame apple.

And if you did blame Apple, you can get on their forum and start a thread griping about the injustices in the world caused by Apple. And also how the grass is so much greener with the other phones.

 

[HighPotential]

It seems like you got a good one. Thats fantastic. I always say the best auto warranty is the one you never need.

Hah! Well said .

Although recently the rule broke. A couple years ago I bought and installed a whole house generator. Now that I had one, of course I expected I would never need to use it. I was wrong. Four times since then! Oddly, instead of being angry at my utility, I felt validated. Lol.

 

[EatsShoots]

My statement has nothing to do with that. He was talking about selling a house worth 400K more than when he bought it. And not crying about it. Who would cry about making more ? Regardless of the situation it sucks to lose money when things end with a car because th experience for HIM sucked. And it did SUCK badly. I was there with another brand, Audi, and it was awful, not knowing if it would break down with me and or my family with me. That is hard to get over. And being forced to get rid of it earlier than expected because of that sucks. Hopefully it never happens to you truly.
And BTW a big difference losing $200 on an iPhone and tens of thousands on a car. Again comparing Apples to Houses and applying them to cars doesn't work for me.
See how I did that there ?
And I don't say this as a means for an argument. Just as someone who lived through an extremely bad situation with a bad vehicle sees it.

He was talking about selling a house worth $400k more now than when he sold it:

"I sold a house that's worth $400k more now than it was worth at the time that I sold it."

As in, he sold the house for $800k (?) and now it's worth $1.2M--had he sold it now he'd be up an additional $400k.

 

[Bud777]

IF you look at Tesla from the perspective of it's mission, depreciation makes sense. Musk got involved with Tesla with one goal, to save the planet from global warming. I believe in the guy and so far he has acted consistently. He is following the path used by Henry Ford with the Model T. Early Model Ts cost about $1800 but as Ford made manufacturing improvements the price dropped to under $900. Musk'd goal is to replace as manny ICE vehicles as fast as possible. That's why he gave away his patents and even published guides to help other manufacturers switch to 48 volt systems. Wall street doesn't understand motives beyond profit, so there is a huge focus on depreciation. I can see why Car Rental companies are not happy, but it is not from Tesla's failure to execute. The same logic applies to Tesla's efforts to increase production. Resultant shorted delays are interpreted as a lack of demand. Of course lower prices will result in lower margins, but the lower cost, increase volume and increase the number of ICE cars taken off the road.

I have made my fortune in the oil industry and I could not be a greater supporter of TESLA and Musk.

 

[MikeChicago]

Read an interesting article today about SAP removing Tesla from its list of suppliers. They said today they will "no longer source its company's cars from Tesla" due to "untimely deliveries and price fluctuations," adding that "Tesla's list prices fluctuate more than those of other manufacturers, which makes planning more difficult and poses a higher risk for the company."

This was published by Reuters and popped up on my Apple News Feed.

 

[EatsShoots]

Musk got involved with Tesla with one goal, to save the planet from global warming.

Yet according to this his private jet flies more than any other billionaire's:

Elon Musk flies private jets more than any other billionaire—releasing over 2,000 tons of carbon emissions in his wake

Elon Musk is the most active private jet user in the U.S.—and the CO2 emissions his travels produce are 132 times that of the average American.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[1windy]

He was talking about selling a house worth $400k more now than when he sold it:

"I sold a house that's worth $400k more now than it was worth at the time that I sold it."

As in, he sold the house for $800k (?) and now it's worth $1.2M--had he sold it now he'd be up an additional $400k.

Thanks for the math lesson. It's sooooo much clearer now. Couldn't sleep until I read this.

 

[sorka]

$170,000 car for 0 down and $1,400 per month over 36 months. Win.

That would be like getting an MSP 3 year lease with no down and $750 / month. 3 years is 50% depreciation. $85K(half of that) at @6% over 3 years is over $2500 / month. Quite frankly, it's hard to believe you got lease terms that are that good.

Good job!

 

[1windy]

He was talking about selling a house worth $400k more now than when he sold it:

"I sold a house that's worth $400k more now than it was worth at the time that I sold it."

As in, he sold the house for $800k (?) and now it's worth $1.2M--had he sold it now he'd be up an additional $400k.

Comparing taking an approximate 40K loss on a vehicle to NOT losing money on a house with a higher value than if he sold it, or an iPhone being on sale for $400 less months later is still is not a fair comparison. Really who cares about phones, what does it cost 1K paid off over a few months? My point is/was its not a loss until it IS sold no hypothetical if. You added your interpretation to what I commented on, by saying "As in, he sold the house for $800k (?) and now it's worth $1.2M--had he sold it now he'd be up an additional $400k." I knew exactly what he was writing, it still isn't a fair comparison.
Anyone can put "blame" on the guy for making a choice to take the loss. But unless you have a piece of garbage vehicle,(most likely lemon vehicle), no matter the brand, and I had an Audi Q8 piece of garbage that I had to sue Audi to buy back in less than a year, YOU JUST WANT OUT. And whether you like it or not when Elon who I am a huge fan of drops th price like he did, it stings. When he drops prices as much as he does, the effects on us with our vehicles is huge. If you keep a vehicle longer to flatten out the depreciation hit. If the vehicle is great and and relatively trouble free why would you get rid of it. But if put in a situation that you have to get out of it, it really sucks. If it hasn't happened to you that truly is awesome, but it is the worst when you are unlucky enough to get a bad vehicle.

 

[EatsShoots]

Thanks for the math lesson. It's sooooo much clearer now. Couldn't sleep until I read this.

Now you're just being rude. You misread what the guy originally said, I courteously corrected you. The better response is "my bad" instead of going from being wrong into troll territory, which you've unfortunately entered into.

 

[1windy]

Now you're just being rude. You misread what the guy originally said, I courteously corrected you. The better response is "my bad" instead of going from being wrong into troll territory, which you've unfortunately entered into.

More like you assumed I misread. And to quote Felix Unger when you assume.....
The almighty you thinks he is the autocorrect of the web. My point is valid comparing a phone and an imagined house sale is not a fair comparison. The man took a beating. So you further expanding on that now became "your bad" trying to justify something that made no sense to begin with.

 

[ucmndd]

That would be like getting an MSP 3 year lease with no down and $750 / month. 3 years is 50% depreciation. $85K(half of that) at @6% over 3 years is over $2500 / month. Quite frankly, it's hard to believe you got lease terms that are that good.

Good job!

Mercedes is notorious for these sorts of baller on a budget lease deals...

Impossibly high residual, they take the car back at the end of the term, refurb it into a CPO, and send the lessee out in something else new to start the whole process over again.

 

[Propofoln]

Mercedes is notorious for these sorts of baller on a budget lease deals...

Impossibly high residual, they take the car back at the end of the term, refurb it into a CPO, and send the lessee out in something else new to start the whole process over again.

In my experience, that is BMW. The few Mercedes I’ve looked to buy in the past (ML63, E63) the lease numbers were crazy high. BMW has historically offered an advantage leasing with inflated residual values.

 

[K.I.T.T.23]

Just like a boat.…..the day I bought my Plaid, and the day…..well you know how it goes.

I sold my Plaid to Carvana. Wrote them a check for $27,000 because I paid $128k for it new just over two years ago, and now it’s only worth $53,000. Tesla depreciation.

I LOVED the Plaid, when it wasn’t in the shop, for many reasons. The performance, the styling, the minimalism and sleeper look, the buying process.

I couldn’t take another day of it being in the shop. Wondering if there would be a loaner available. Wondering if it will sit untouched in their lot for weeks waiting for parts. I couldn’t spend another week wondering when and which tire would have the tread separate next, hoping it would happen at home and not when it’s parked at the airport. Oh the week long wait for a replacement tire that is never in stock for that size. That’s good stuff.

N2itive rear arms were going to solve the tire issue, but every time I had to bring my car in for service (which was often), I had to pay $500 to have the arms removed or Tesla wouldn’t touch the car. Then I had to pay $500 to have the arms put back on after Tesla was done not really fixing the problem the car was in the shop for.

The jarring suspension that kept having links break or loosen. The placebo Sport and Comfort modes. The horn. Love when someone about side swipes me while they are texting and I furiously smack the airbag hoping they hear it. The center horn is coming. Let’s all check the part number of our recalled airbags to see if it has the coveted switch under it that will never come. At least there aren’t any of those pesky turn signal stalks that only get In the way when you are trying to make a turn. Roundabouts turn into IQ tests while you try to teach your brain to determine which arrow to press based on how many revolutions you have made with the yoke. Oh the yoke. I had them replace that for free so at least I could parallel park or do a three-point U-turn without running into a curb.

I will miss the one attribute Tesla did right. The superchargers. Well, starting this year my new Mercedes will be charging at those same Superchargers so I guess I won’t be missing it for long.

I‘m done with the Elon lies of Steam coming for my Plaid. 200mph. Rear seat gaming, movies, etc.

I’m done with Tesla.

That felt good. Therapeutic. Putting this on the Tesla forum should be fun. << GRENADE!! >>

I’ll go heat up some popcorn. View attachment 1014250

I love rants like this I am surprised you didn't bring up the yoke wheel more! Struggling through roundabouts is cute, reminds me of those TV infomercial commercials with the guy tripping all over himself trying to crack an egg. Thanks for the giggle.

1. in the shop all the time: I have this one in common with you. Mine has been in the shop more than it should have, I had a crappy service team. They have all been... swapped out? fired? something, but my current team is awesome, The service manager knows me by name, and I know the tech that takes care of my car 90% of the time, and he does a great job. They take good care of me now, and when they fix things, they actually do it. The old team was not the Plaid's fault. Maybe you should have said something to the right person? Maybe changes are coming? sounds like you may need to work on patience.
2. N2itive rear arms: Duno what those are for (don't really care), but if you want warranty work... don't mod the car. This is not Tesla specific. This is the automotive industry standard.
3. Done with Tesla: Thank you no joke, sincerely, as a stockholder; thank you. Customers like yourself are expensive! I am just assuming from your post and need to rant (unconstructively at that) that you fit this customer mold. GL to your new brand.

4. For your new brand: I would recommend Toyota, maybe Honda. find a basic car, with basic design, nice and reliable... maybe a Camry. Cars like that are PERFECT for people that want the standard experience. get the Honda and you can mod it really good too! I wouldn't go with a hybrid either, get a solid 3.5L v6, you will get some power and TONS of reliability. GL to you and your future endeavors.

That all to say: leave the frontiers of technology to those that can adapt, learn, work with, and enjoy new tech.

 

[Abl3rider]

So what ive learned from this hopefully correctly, is that I can find a recent model year MSP for around $55k. “Perfect condition lemon” but I should look for 19” wheels and drive it to see if it vibrates, u see, under acceleration. Damn that’s tempting. What year is best? When did Tesla axe the stalks?

 

[TLLMRRJ]

So what ive learned from this hopefully correctly, is that I can find a recent model year MSP for around $55k. “Perfect condition lemon” but I should look for 19” wheels and drive it to see if it vibrates, u see, under acceleration. Damn that’s tempting. What year is best? When did Tesla axe the stalks?

You can buy the 19" wheels cheap and sell the 21's for more than you paid for the 19's, so don't let that stop you.

If you have too much negative camber in the rear, go with shims to reduce the amount of camber, and you won't have weird problems with the Service Center refusing to work on your car if you add aftermarket adjustable arms.

 

[Gloff]

Aaaand here he is folks... the guy who always comes along praising the financial benefits of leasing... y'know.. if you're smart enough.

Straight out of the Dave Ramsey "all debt is bad debt" playbook. Every situation is unique, and you have to do what is right for your own finances. I leverage the *sugar* out of my credit card, it quite literally costs me money to pay cash, 2% of every transaction. But hey, I pay my credit card off every month, not every individual has the budgeting restraint or capability.

You know, there are situations where leasing then buying out that lease is cheaper than just paying cash.

Right now, that situation exists with the Mach E. The tax credit is being passed through on the lease, but it doesn't qualify for purchases. Despite the money factor (which is still really cheap relative to the marketplace) and the purchase option fee, and all the fees, it's still cheaper than paying cash. I'll do the math with you if you want.

 

[EatsShoots]

Straight out of the Dave Ramsey "all debt is bad debt" playbook. Every situation is unique, and you have to do what is right for your own finances. I leverage the *sugar* out of my credit card, it quite literally costs me money to pay cash, 2% of every transaction. But hey, I pay my credit card off every month, not every individual has the budgeting restraint or capability.

You know, there are situations where leasing then buying out that lease is cheaper than just paying cash.

Right now, that situation exists with the Mach E. The tax credit is being passed through on the lease, but it doesn't qualify for purchases. Despite the money factor (which is still really cheap relative to the marketplace) and the purchase option fee, and all the fees, it's still cheaper than paying cash. I'll do the math with you if you want.

The "leasing is always bad" people may not appreciate that it is just another tool and sometimes by far the best for the job. Example a couple of years ago it was possible to lease a Chevy Bolt for negative money. At least one guy on the leasehackr.com forum navigated just the right incentives, and had just the right income, to pay less than $0 to drive a Bolt through the lease term. It's an extreme example used to illustrate a point.

Probably the best lease I ever did was on a 2012 Leaf, which I was paying $239/month for with $0 out of pocket at signing, and after 15 months I brought it back to Nissan to get a different car. I can't recall how I got out of the leaf without penalty (I absolutely did not roll negative equity), but nissan also was giving $1k credit to *all* Leaf owners (including leasees!) then to cover loss in equity, so I ended up paying $2500 to drive a new car for 15 months, which is pretty darn good and a heck of a lot better than the five digit losses taken by those who had bought.